Should I return to the church or NOT?

[ScienceUser]

You can see my most recent post on how I really want to return to the church, but married a Protestant … well … there is another big issue that I just learned about. I just recently learned about the church’s stance on not using birth control. My priest never taught me this when I converted so I didn’t know.

I’m worried because I really struggle with the church’s stance on contraception/birth control. I use birth control because I do not want children. Never have, never will. Not only have I never wanted children, we’ve decided not to have children for my mental health. As a scientist, I believe God gave us science to use and I don’t have any ethical issues taking using science to control and plan pregnancies. I haven’t read too much positives on NFP. So, I won’t be using that. The very thought that I could get pregnant literally puts in such a mental status that I can’t function normally. NFP would be much too stressful for me and would have terrible consequences for my relationship.

Do you think my issues with this means I need to wait to rejoin the Catholic church, and maybe never come home even though I want so badly to come back? In tears about this. Not sure what to do!

 

[EasterJoy]

Well, first off, the Church teaching on contraception isn’t a “Catholic only” thing, like attending Mass on certain days. It is a matter of natural moral law that is binding on human beings. Even if you were to decide not come back, you still have to reconcile yourself with what you know the Church teaches about moral law. We are held to the standard of what we knew to be true as taught to us by moral authority that we knew to be reliable when we learned of it.

Likewise, you are a Catholic, Catholics are bound by certain duties, and you know this as well. If you know the truth, you ought to do your best to act according to what is true. So if you know the Church is indeed the one true Church (as I think you do), then of course you ought to do your best to act according to what she teaches and to seek forgiveness and a firm purpose of amendment when you fail. You belong to the Church, you quit living as if you belonged to the Church, but it is time to come back and live according to what you are, which is a Catholic.

IOW, you joined the Church because you accepted that what she teaches is true. That was not contingent on having examined every single thing and making certain that it passed muster with you, but was an act of obedience to the Church as a higher moral authority than yourself.

I am concerned that you are anxious and upset about this. Please talk to the pastor at the parish in which you live, and talk these things over. We are not meant to live in anxiety and upset over the prospect of following moral law. The guidance of the Church, the sacraments, and the life of the Church in general is meant to give life and peace, not anxiety and dread. Many times, however, we are tempted to look at moral law as a huge mountain that we can never climb or some elephant carcass that we are supposed to swallow whole. It is not like that. Get some help; I think you ought to think not about whether you ought to come back, but how you are going to go about doing it.

Via con Dios!!

 

[PennyinCanada]

NFP is based on science.

Did you know the pill works by 2 effects? One is to suppress ovulation. However, a higher dosage of the pill has more side effects, so the company tries to keep it as low as possible. This can allow for a break through egg once in a while. The other effect of the pill is to make the uterus inhospitable for a fertilized egg to implant. So. Should there be an egg released and sperm there to fertilize, you will abort your baby. It is a baby, it has it’s own unique DNA that is never repeatable. Maybe the baby that will find a cure for cancer, if given a chance to grow. Now if this should happen once or twice a year out of 13 cycles, you could have aborted maybe 5 to 10 babies in only 5 years. Are you comfortable with this scientific knowledge? Understand that at the end of your life, you will come before God to answer for all of your decisions. What He offers you through Jesus Christ is his friendship and mercy. Maybe you aren’t ready for coming into his blessing. I hope you are. I am so very glad that I did, when I was in my 20’s. Best decision I ever made. But, I find the teachings of the Church to be a source of freedom and joy. That’s what God’s grace does to a heart. Following what the world demands is much more difficult, and there is no joy there that is lasting. It’s like a night of drinking, all fun and laughter until you drive home drunk. Our choices affect other people, some choices are to bless, the other for disaster. You can choose blessing today. I hope you do.

 

[jmcrae]

You can see my most recent post on how I really want to return to the church, but married a Protestant … well … there is another big issue that I just learned about. I just recently learned about the church’s stance on not using birth control. My priest never taught me this when I converted so I didn’t know.

Family planning is allowed, but artificial forms of birth control that either chemically alter the hormones of the woman, or that cause a barrier between the man and the woman, are forbidden because they alter the nature of the sex act.

Sex is sacred - it is a total giving of self to the other. It must be kept pure. This doesn’t mean that married people have to have sex all the time, or during the fertile time of the month.

I’m worried because I really struggle with the church’s stance on contraception/birth control. I use birth control because I do not want children. Never have, never will. Not only have I never wanted children, we’ve decided not to have children for my mental health. As a scientist, I believe God gave us science to use and I don’t have any ethical issues taking using science to control and plan pregnancies. I haven’t read too much positives on NFP. So, I won’t be using that. The very thought that I could get pregnant literally puts in such a mental status that I can’t function normally. NFP would be much too stressful for me and would have terrible consequences for my relationship.

Be a good scientist and study the evidence for yourself. Make a few experiments and see whether it’s doable before rejecting it out of prejudice.

Do you think my issues with this means I need to wait to rejoin the Catholic church, and maybe never come home even though I want so badly to come back? In tears about this. Not sure what to do!

Talk to your priest. Also talk to an NFP counsellor - she can tell you what you can expect from the various different kinds of NFP.

 

[ScienceUser]

Thanks for all of your advice and comments!

Talking to some of my Catholic friends and godmother, they recommend praying and researching more. But, ultimately it is better to come back to the church and struggle through the issue there rather than struggle on my own through the decision.

I really didn’t look much into marriage/family/family planning when I was attending church regularly and practicing my faith. Because, I didn’t think I would ever get married. But, now that I got married (to a protestant in a protestant church - I wasn’t practicing my faith when we were married) and want to come back to the Church, I now have reason to research what the Church teaches on things relating to marriage and family. So, before I wasn’t even aware of what the Church said about contraception/family planning because it didn’t matter to me - I never had sex until after I married my husband. Now it matters and that is why I am just learning about this.

I will try to find more information on NFP, but some things I have read and then had concerns were:

• Before BC, I had extremely painful periods that were very irregular (I can go from not having a period a few months, to having several really close together that are very heavy, painful, and debilitating). This apparently can make NFP less effective since my “signs” may not be accurate enough.

-I’ve got a list of medical issues that screw up with every system in my body, including my reproductive cycle. So, I’m not sure how I couls use NFP would work for me.

• I work over full time, with several jobs and I go to college full time. This means, I actually only see my husband an hour here and there throughout the week. When we have time together, it is so precious. I can hardly remember what day of the week it is and just have a hard time remembering things in general because I am so busy. I am worried how NFP would hinder my time with my husband or how I could use it effectively. Sex is NOT the basis of our relationship. But, we are so in love with each other, and physical relationships are just a natural manifestation of love.

-Scientists have discovered that some women ovulate more than once per month (and sometimes more than one egg each time).

• I have lots of Catholic friends. Many of which tried NFP. Some used it to try and postpone children until after college or until they were more financially secure. Others used it to space their children out. But, it didn’t work for them. They went back on birth control but stayed in the Catholic Church.
• (Source: Understanding Human Sexuality, Eighth Edition, by Janet Shibley Hyde and John D. Delamater, pages 202-204) Fertility awareness methods of contraception have a typical-user failure rate of 25%. This means out of 100 women, 25 will be pregnant in a year. In contrast, birht control failure rate is 0.1-5% (depending on is you use it perfectly or not).

Are there any sources out there that you can point me to regarding how NFP can be effectively used? Maybe there is one method that is more effective than another??? If you know of any good sources, please share so I can look more into it!

 

[Jon_S_1]

Thanks for all of your advice and comments!

Talking to some of my Catholic friends and godmother, they recommend praying and researching more. But, ultimately it is better to come back to the church and struggle through the issue there rather than struggle on my own through the decision.

I really didn’t look much into marriage/family/family planning when I was attending church regularly and practicing my faith. Because, I didn’t think I would ever get married. But, now that I got married (to a protestant in a protestant church - I wasn’t practicing my faith when we were married) and want to come back to the Church, I now have reason to research what the Church teaches on things relating to marriage and family. So, before I wasn’t even aware of what the Church said about contraception/family planning because it didn’t matter to me - I never had sex until after I married my husband. Now it matters and that is why I am just learning about this.

I will try to find more information on NFP, but some things I have read and then had concerns were:

• Before BC, I had extremely painful periods that were very irregular (I can go from not having a period a few months, to having several really close together that are very heavy, painful, and debilitating). This apparently can make NFP less effective since my “signs” may not be accurate enough.

-I’ve got a list of medical issues that screw up with every system in my body, including my reproductive cycle. So, I’m not sure how I couls use NFP would work for me.

• I work over full time, with several jobs and I go to college full time. This means, I actually only see my husband an hour here and there throughout the week. When we have time together, it is so precious. I can hardly remember what day of the week it is and just have a hard time remembering things in general because I am so busy. I am worried how NFP would hinder my time with my husband or how I could use it effectively. Sex is NOT the basis of our relationship. But, we are so in love with each other, and physical relationships are just a natural manifestation of love.

-Scientists have discovered that some women ovulate more than once per month (and sometimes more than one egg each time).

• I have lots of Catholic friends. Many of which tried NFP. Some used it to try and postpone children until after college or until they were more financially secure. Others used it to space their children out. But, it didn’t work for them. They went back on birth control but stayed in the Catholic Church.
• (Source: Understanding Human Sexuality, Eighth Edition, by Janet Shibley Hyde and John D. Delamater, pages 202-204) Fertility awareness methods of contraception have a typical-user failure rate of 25%. This means out of 100 women, 25 will be pregnant in a year. In contrast, birht control failure rate is 0.1-5% (depending on is you use it perfectly or not).

Are there any sources out there that you can point me to regarding how NFP can be effectively used? Maybe there is one method that is more effective than another??? If you know of any good sources, please share so I can look more into it!

I commend your openess and heart for returning to the church. I don’t have much to offer in this conversation but just wanted to encourage your continued seeking.

Remember that the church is counter cultural. Our culture is very far from being in line with Christ. And even difficult teachings are something we should work through while trusting God and his church.

Release this to God, continue your discussions and searching as your process for comforting you but try to understand why the church teaches this and why God has revealed it.

He will work out the details with you in time.

 

[PennyinCanada]

I had irregular periods. I could tell when ovulation didn’t happen, and when it eventually did, and I was right on because my period showed up when I figured it would.
I would have benefited from being on the pill because of the painful periods I had, but I just couldn’t live with thinking that I could not know for sure if I was ovulating and loosing a baby, and more importantly, I wanted to remain in a state of grace. I had lived outside of the friendship with God long enough.

I am glad you are here, asking the questions.

 

[on_the_hill]

Do you think my issues with this means I need to wait to rejoin the Catholic church…?

No. It means come back to the Church now. What happens to the special bottle of wine that gets saved for the perfect moment? It never gets drunk and eventually goes flat.

The perfect Catholic doesn’t exist.

If all of us stayed away until we resolved our issues, or lived exactly the way we’re supposed to there would be no Sacrament of Reconciliation, the Church would have died out two thousand years ago.

You can’t experience the game by standing on the sideline.

Come back in. The door’s never locked.

PM if you want more advice.

 

[maryjk]

• Before BC, I had extremely painful periods that were very irregular (I can go from not having a period a few months, to having several really close together that are very heavy, painful, and debilitating). This apparently can make NFP less effective since my “signs” may not be accurate enough.

Been there, done that. And yes, I hate when people say that. But it is true.

Painful periods, check. My last period was two months ago. Before that, it was 3 weeks before.

-I’ve got a list of medical issues that screw up with every system in my body, including my reproductive cycle. So, I’m not sure how I could use NFP would work for me.

Me too. But it does.

• I work over full time, with several jobs and I go to college full time. This means, I actually only see my husband an hour here and there throughout the week. When we have time together, it is so precious. I can hardly remember what day of the week it is and just have a hard time remembering things in general because I am so busy. I am worried how NFP would hinder my time with my husband or how I could use it effectively. Sex is NOT the basis of our relationship. But, we are so in love with each other, and physical relationships are just a natural manifestation of love.

What day it is has less to do with your fertility than whether “today” is fertile.

-Scientists have discovered that some women ovulate more than once per month (and sometimes more than one egg each time).

That’s how we get twins. So yes, you can release more than one egg. Which is why most people wait 3 days to ensure “both” eggs would be gone before resuming relations.

• I have lots of Catholic friends. Many of which tried NFP. Some used it to try and postpone children until after college or until they were more financially secure. Others used it to space their children out. But, it didn’t work for them. They went back on birth control but stayed in the Catholic Church.

Other people choosing to sin shouldn’t be an excuse for you to sin.

• (Source: Understanding Human Sexuality, Eighth Edition, by Janet Shibley Hyde and John D. Delamater, pages 202-204) Fertility awareness methods of contraception have a typical-user failure rate of 25%. This means out of 100 women, 25 will be pregnant in a year. In contrast, birth control failure rate is 0.1-5% (depending on is you use it perfectly or not).

Are there any sources out there that you can point me to regarding how NFP can be effectively used? Maybe there is one method that is more effective than another??? If you know of any good sources, please share so I can look more into it!

sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/02/070221065200.htm

The symptothermal method (STM) is a form of natural family planning (NFP) that enables couples to identify accurately the time of the woman’s fertile phase by measuring her temperature and observing cervical secretions. In the largest, prospective study of STM, the researchers found that if the couples then either abstained from sex or used a barrier method during the fertile period, the rate of unplanned pregnancies per year was 0.4% and 0.6% respectively. Out of all the 900 women who took part in the study, including those who had unprotected sex during their fertile period, 1.8 per 100 became unintentionally pregnant.

 

[Iheartcoffee]

Check out Iusenfp.com. It’s a good resource for NFP information. NFP really does work. My husband and I have been in situations where pregnancy wouldn’t be a good idea, and it really really does work. For instance. I was matched as a marrow donor. If I got pregnant prior to the donation I wouldn’t have been able to donate. Ultimately, the cancer patient wasn’t considered eligible for transplant, but during the waiting period, it was possible that his life depended on my ability to provide stem cells for the transplant. I used NFP to avoid getting pregnant.

NFP is as effective as you want it to be. Think of it as family planning on a continuum. You can stay very aware of your fertility signs and NFP can be just as effective as the pill. You can apply it halfheartedly and have some effectiveness, or you can go to the other end of the spectrum and use NFP to actually help you get pregnant.

As for health problems, check out NaPro. There are some ways to treat the actual problem, whereas being on birth control often covers the symptoms but doesn’t fix the problem. That being said, being on birth control is okay if it is being used to treat a medical condition. However, the pill must treat the actual condition. It can’t be used with the intent to avoid pregnancy due to a medical condition. It should not be used with the intention of avoiding pregnancy. There is a principle of “double effect”, where if you are treating one thing and it has the unintended consequence of being abortive that may be permissible. An example would be giving a pregnant woman certain cancer drugs. They are treating the cancer and it may have the unintended effect of causing an abortion.That is much different than giving the woman a drug to intentionally cause an abortion.

 

[EasterJoy]

No. It means come back to the Church now. What happens to the special bottle of wine that gets saved for the perfect moment? It never gets drunk and eventually goes flat.

The perfect Catholic doesn’t exist.

If all of us stayed away until we resolved our issues, or lived exactly the way we’re supposed to there would be no Sacrament of Reconciliation, the Church would have died out two thousand years ago.

You can’t experience the game by standing on the sideline.

Come back in. The door’s never locked.

PM if you want more advice.

This.

We don’t become perfect so we can go to church. We go to church to be made perfect. We need the life of the Church to move in the direction of sanctity. Anyone who says otherwise has that one more obstacle to have moved before they can be made saints…and it is perhaps the greatest obstacle of all!

 

[1ke]

• Before BC, I had extremely painful periods that were very irregular (I can go from not having a period a few months, to having several really close together that are very heavy, painful, and debilitating). This apparently can make NFP less effective since my “signs” may not be accurate enough.

You should really get to the bottom of that. Taking the Pill does not fix anything, it just masks it. Pope Paul VI Institute may be an option.

-I’ve got a list of medical issues that screw up with every system in my body, including my reproductive cycle. So, I’m not sure how I couls use NFP would work for me.

Well, since you are either fertile or not on any given day, and you observe every day, you will know if you have signs of fertility or not.

-Scientists have discovered that some women ovulate more than once per month (and sometimes more than one egg each time).

That is how fraternal twins come about, but it is rare and it is not as if you randomly ovulate multiple times throughout your cycle. You may release two eggs, but it would be within 24 hours… you only ovulate once but multiple follicles may release the egg. After that, progesterone levels prevent a “second” ovulation.

• I have lots of Catholic friends. Many of which tried NFP. Some used it to try and postpone children until after college or until they were more financially secure. Others used it to space their children out. But, it didn’t work for them. They went back on birth control but stayed in the Catholic Church.

Many couples who say they “tried” NFP really did not have a serious reason to postpone and therefore took chances or did not chart dilligently. That may be the case for some of your friends.

• (Source: Understanding Human Sexuality, Eighth Edition, by Janet Shibley Hyde and John D. Delamater, pages 202-204) Fertility awareness methods of contraception have a typical-user failure rate of 25%. This means out of 100 women, 25 will be pregnant in a year. In contrast, birht control failure rate is 0.1-5% (depending on is you use it perfectly or not).

In books and government websites, “fertility awareness methods” include the rhythm method (which does have a failure rate of 25%), standard days method (a form of the rhythm method) and some include NO METHOD under natural methods. So, beware statistics. The rate for Marquette, Creighton, Billings, and Sympto-Thermal specifically when not lumped in with these other non scientific methods have much different outcomes.

Are there any sources out there that you can point me to regarding how NFP can be effectively used? Maybe there is one method that is more effective than another??? If you know of any good sources, please share so I can look more into it!

Sympto-Thermal, Creighton, Billings, and Marquette all have various websites.

The secular resource Taking Charge of Your Fertility has a very detailed book, the author has a website now too.

 

[Suslar]

Thanks for all of your advice and comments!

Talking to some of my Catholic friends and godmother, they recommend praying and researching more. But, ultimately it is better to come back to the church and struggle through the issue there rather than struggle on my own through the decision.

• I have lots of Catholic friends. Many of which tried NFP. Some used it to try and postpone children until after college or until they were more financially secure. Others used it to space their children out. But, it didn’t work for them. They went back on birth control but stayed in the Catholic Church.

Come Home to the Church!
She will not fail you.

As for your “Catholic” friends, they did not stay in good standing with the Church if they were flaunting her teachings. I’d suggest (as other above did) that you talk to a knowledgeable priest. You will get the best advice for how to live in holiness by following some of the best Catholic examples, not by listening to marginal “Catholics” who excluded themselves from full communion.

 

[SecretGarden]

The church is always welcome to everyone regardless of what they have done in the past or if they have used birth control or not. Truth be told there are many practicing Catholics who use birth control because it works best for their personal situation.

Many people will debate the two sides but in the end it is a personal choice. Everyone has a reason: some for medical reasons and others for practical reasons as in your case.

If God is calling you to return, then come home and while you are here, you can always investigate the faith further and ask your various questions. Remember to be a Catholic doesn’t mean one has to agree with everything the church teaches. The issue of birth control has been a topic the church has been debating since at least the 1960’s and I don’t see the debate end anytime soon.

It’s up to you to decide can you live with the teachings the church practices. No christian denomination is perfect therefore let’s see where the Lord leads you.

 

[on_the_hill]

. Remember to be a Catholic doesn’t mean one has to agree with everything the church teaches.

Shhhhh…someone might hear you.

 

[His_helpmeet]

The Church has not been “debating” about the use of birth control. It is contrary to natural law. By using birth control, a couple is telling each other, “Well, I love you, but I hate the fact that we could have a baby” and “Well, I give myself to you - except I don’t give you this”.

NFP methods such as Marquette, Billings, Creighton, and sympto-thermal are based on scientific evidence used to determine whether or not a woman is fertile. Marquette, I think, uses a fertility monitor, Billings relies on normal sensations, Creighton uses cervical mucous, and sympto-thermal uses basal body temperature. These are still accurate in women who have irregular menstrual cycles - and charting can assist in determining the cause of the irregular cycles so that they can be effectively treated.

A good NFP instructor can help you determine fertile and non-fertile days. I also read about a study that demonstrated that couples who use NFP actually have MORE sex than those that were using contraception! With the “early days” rules, every other day is available for sex. You only have to abstain for a few days each cycle.

NaPro Technology can also assist you in determining and treating the cause of your irregular menstrual cycles.

 

[TK421]

I’m happy to see you want to reactivate yourself

Btw, there is no debate on the contraception issue. The Church has officially and consistently taught its objective sinfulness since the Roman Empire, and of course, modern contraceptives are in no way an exception. The Church operates on the ultimatum that doctrines are irrevocable and that it contains the fullness of truth on salvation. What this means is that if the Church is wrong on contraception, then the Church is simply wrong, period. Every parish should, in good conscious, close down.

But it isn’t wrong, and I’m sure with some research, talking, prayer, and commitment, you and your spouse can work this out just fine. And if it means anything to you, orthodox Catholics that obey all the Church teachings on sexual ethics are self-reportedly extremely sexually satisfied and have extremely low divorce rates. Obedience to the moral law is a liberator and benefactor to mankind, not a burden.

 

[Joy2day]

Dear OP, please do not have any preconceived ideas re. the joy of having a baby; you do not know what it will be like until you have one. No matter what anyone tells you or you think your ‘condition’ will cope with - you really have no idea. A human life is greater and bigger than any ‘condition’ or personal mindset. I am sure you would have assistance to help you with a baby, who will grow into a fully fledged adult one day - because of your selflessness. Even if the worst were to happen, and for some reason, you had to adopt out a baby - it is still better to give that life - and that child will always be yours.

 

[1ke]

Remember to be a Catholic doesn’t mean one has to agree with everything the church teaches.

This is false. In fact, it is an article of faith that we must give assent of faith to all dogmas and docctrine and religious assent to all the rest.

The issue of birth control has been a topic the church has been debating since at least the 1960’s and I don’t see the debate end anytime soon.

This too is false. There is no “debate” on the intrinsic evil of contraception. The only people “debating” anything are those who reject the constant teaching of the Church. Is it a difficult teaching for many? Yes. But, it is God’s objective law, and it is not going to change, ever.

It’s up to you to decide can you live with the teachings the church practices.

This is certainly true. At one point or another, we must all decide whether or not to conform our lives to Christ.

No christian denomination is perfect therefore let’s see where the Lord leads you.

The Catholic Church is. It is the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. While people in the Church certainly are not perfect, because we are all sinners, the Church herself is perfect-- Christ’s unblemished bride.

 

[on_the_hill]

This is false. In fact, it is an article of faith that we must give assent of faith to all dogmas and docctrine and religious assent to all the rest.

…

This is certainly true. At one point or another, we must all decide whether or not to conform our lives to Christ.

But isn’t there a section of the CCC (or somewhere) that instructs us to follow our conscience? I don’t recall the exact wording, and maybe I misunderstand it, but from what I do understand, it is our obligation to contemplate, discern, etc. Granted, this doesn’t abrogate the Church’s teaching on contraception; however, Holy Mother the Church doesn’t want us to turn into the Borg. If the Vatican were to start making bad decisions, it would be even worse if we simply accepted the directives because they told us to.