Should I say something or leave it alone?

[damooster]

As I’ve mentioned in past posts, I go to a very liberal parish for RCIA. I’ve already decided that I will attend another parish once I’m confirmed.

I noticed a few weeks ago that the parish leaves out the word “men” from the Nicene Creed. What I’ve also discovered in the past couple of weeks (now that I’m more familiar with everything) is that the parish changes every masculine word.

For example, instead of “for the praise and glory of his name,” the parish says “and glory of God’s name.” Instead of “and the good of all his church” they say “of all God’s church.” Here’s another one; instead of saying “blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord” the parish says “blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord.”

I’ve been trying my hardest to be as reverent as possible, and to keep to myself as we near confirmation. But today one of my fellow Elect made a joke to me after Mass that I need to relearn everything because he noticed that I “messed up some words.” Up until now, I had decided to just keep to myself, but I began to crack my missal open to show him what I had learned when a hand reached out to close it. I looked up and it was someone with a position in the Church (I don’t want to name names or positions). He smiled at me and walked away. I was stunned.

It sounds conspiratorial but I believe the parish is teaching the Elect this on purpose. During the past three weeks, we’ve sat at the front of the parish as we go through the Scrutinies. When one of the masculine words comes up, I’ve noticed that the RCIA team says the replacement word loudly. I’m not imagining this; I try to focus on God when I’m at Mass but it’s so noticeable.

So, what should I do? Should I show my fellow Elect what’s going on or should I keep my mouth shut and pray that they learn the right way on their own? I’m afraid that they’re going to visit another parish and be completely lost.

Thanks.

 

[Phemie]

The documents are clear that no one has the right to change these things in the liturgy. Unfortunately, your parish is not alone and I seriously doubt that your saying something will change anything. Many in my parish, though it’s not parish policy, change some of the same things.

It’s illicit and in some instances, like the Offertory response you noted, can lead to confusion and bad theology: May the Lord accept the sacrifice at your hands for the praise and glory of God’s name, instead of ‘of his name’, implies that the Lord & God are two different persons.

 

[Spirithound]

I would say show your fellow Elect if it comes up again. As one of the Elect, you probably don’t have the “standing” in the parish to make a complaint about it (especially not if my reading between the lines is correct on who closed your missal). You are free to change parishes once you are Confirmed. Perhaps in time you can talk to someone in your new parish about it to get a “general sense” of how people feel about that parish. You’ll know when the time is right.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

How does your parish pray the Lord’s Prayer? Do they change “Our Father” to something gender neutral?

If so, I’d say leave with all haste. If they still say Father, then stick it out until confirmation.

Are you registered in this parish yet? When you leave and register in the parish you will be attending, make sure they know WHY you’re leaving.

 

[BSHoop96]

As I’ve mentioned in past posts, I go to a very liberal parish for RCIA. I’ve already decided that I will attend another parish once I’m confirmed.

I noticed a few weeks ago that the parish leaves out the word “men” from the Nicene Creed. What I’ve also discovered in the past couple of weeks (now that I’m more familiar with everything) is that the parish changes every masculine word.

For example, instead of “for the praise and glory of his name,” the parish says “and glory of God’s name.” Instead of “and the good of all his church” they say “of all God’s church.” Here’s another one; instead of saying “blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord” the parish says “blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord.”

I’ve been trying my hardest to be as reverent as possible, and to keep to myself as we near confirmation. But today one of my fellow Elect made a joke to me after Mass that I need to relearn everything because he noticed that I “messed up some words.” Up until now, I had decided to just keep to myself, but I began to crack my missal open to show him what I had learned when a hand reached out to close it. I looked up and it was someone with a position in the Church (I don’t want to name names or positions). He smiled at me and walked away. I was stunned.

It sounds conspiratorial but I believe the parish is teaching the Elect this on purpose. During the past three weeks, we’ve sat at the front of the parish as we go through the Scrutinies. When one of the masculine words comes up, I’ve noticed that the RCIA team says the replacement word loudly. I’m not imagining this; I try to focus on God when I’m at Mass but it’s so noticeable.

So, what should I do? Should I show my fellow Elect what’s going on or should I keep my mouth shut and pray that they learn the right way on their own? I’m afraid that they’re going to visit another parish and be completely lost.

Thanks.

Surely there are times that people raise their hands and ask questions in RCIA. I would raise my hand and say nicely…“I’m confused as to why all the gender pronouns in the liturgy are changed.” You can even say you have been doing some studying and it was your understanding that this wasn’t to be done so you are wondering.

I’m not one of those people that suggest running to the Bishop to tattle but as someone else pointed out this is being TAUGHT. And it must have the approval of the priest if it’s rampant. They will of course give you some reason that makes perfect sense to them (as if that’s relevant) but at least you will have planted a bug in the ear of the other Elect. Then after you are received into the Church I would compose a letter to the Bishop and list all these examples. AND I would then pray on whether to change parishes or stay and try to help “educate” this one. Maybe both…stay and then if you are constantly in turmoil with no results…change parishes.

 

[damooster]

How does your parish pray the Lord’s Prayer? Do they change “Our Father” to something gender neutral?

I’m glad you asked because it makes me believe there’s some hope. No, they don’t change the words of the Lord’s Prayer.

Are you registered in this parish yet? When you leave and register in the parish you will be attending, make sure they know WHY you’re leaving.

No I’m not. I have been parish “shopping.” There are several within a short driving distance from me. Telling this parish why I’m leaving is a good idea.

 

[damooster]

Surely there are times that people raise their hands and ask questions in RCIA. I would raise my hand and say nicely…“I’m confused as to why all the gender pronouns in the liturgy are changed.” You can even say you have been doing some studying and it was your understanding that this wasn’t to be done so you are wondering.

That’s a really great idea. My only concern is that I may not get the opportunity. This Wednesday is our Easter vigil rehearsal and there won’t be a class. The following Wednesday (the one before baptism and confirmation) is kind of the same thing.

I’m not one of those people that suggest running to the Bishop to tattle but as someone else pointed out this is being TAUGHT. And it must have the approval of the priest if it’s rampant.

In defense of the priest, he is very passive and I believe he just turns the other way. He is fairly old and he messes up fairly often during the Mass. I’ve always been under the impression that he’s more concerned with his part than with ours. I hope that doesn’t sound bad or if I worded anything wrong.

AND I would then pray on whether to change parishes or stay and try to help “educate” this one. Maybe both…stay and then if you are constantly in turmoil with no results…change parishes.

I’m not sure this parish wants to change. I should point out that this parish has a huge congregation. Every Sunday is packed; there are people hanging out outside waiting to get in. If I had to estimate, I would say that there are around 350-400 people at the 11:15 Mass every Sunday.

I shouldn’t give up on the place since they’ve been so welcoming to me and embraced me. I have a lot of praying to do.

 

[japhy]

I began to crack my missal open to show him what I had learned when a hand reached out to close it. I looked up and it was someone with a position in the Church (I don’t want to name names or positions). He smiled at me and walked away. I was stunned. It sounds conspiratorial…

It is a conspiracy. No jokes about that. It should be reported to your bishop. It’s appalling, honestly.

Every Sunday is packed; there are people hanging out outside waiting to get in. If I had to estimate, I would say that there are around 350-400 people at the 11:15 Mass every Sunday.

I wonder how many people would stop attending Mass (there) if the words were changed back to the appropriate ones. It would show how many of them are attending for worship of God and how many are attending for the dissident parade.

 

[Eric_Olsen]

While questioning this is proper, it may however cause the OP to be riduculed or shouted down making he/she feel like “how dare you question this”. I say this because the parish I am regisered at is on the liberal side and they have a woman who in my opinion is a liberal blowhard whom I have locked horns with during RCIA. Every time I see her she either looks the other way or wont even speak to me.

Surely there are times that people raise their hands and ask questions in RCIA. I would raise my hand and say nicely…“I’m confused as to why all the gender pronouns in the liturgy are changed.” You can even say you have been doing some studying and it was your understanding that this wasn’t to be done so you are wondering.

I’m not one of those people that suggest running to the Bishop to tattle but as someone else pointed out this is being TAUGHT. And it must have the approval of the priest if it’s rampant. They will of course give you some reason that makes perfect sense to them (as if that’s relevant) but at least you will have planted a bug in the ear of the other Elect. Then after you are received into the Church I would compose a letter to the Bishop and list all these examples. AND I would then pray on whether to change parishes or stay and try to help “educate” this one. Maybe both…stay and then if you are constantly in turmoil with no results…change parishes.

 

[1ke]

As I’ve mentioned in past posts, I go to a very liberal parish for RCIA. I’ve already decided that I will attend another parish once I’m confirmed.

I noticed a few weeks ago that the parish leaves out the word “men” from the Nicene Creed. What I’ve also discovered in the past couple of weeks (now that I’m more familiar with everything) is that the parish changes every masculine word.

For example, instead of “for the praise and glory of his name,” the parish says “and glory of God’s name.” Instead of “and the good of all his church” they say “of all God’s church.” Here’s another one; instead of saying “blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord” the parish says “blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord.”

I’ve been trying my hardest to be as reverent as possible, and to keep to myself as we near confirmation. But today one of my fellow Elect made a joke to me after Mass that I need to relearn everything because he noticed that I “messed up some words.” Up until now, I had decided to just keep to myself, but I began to crack my missal open to show him what I had learned when a hand reached out to close it. I looked up and it was someone with a position in the Church (I don’t want to name names or positions). He smiled at me and walked away. I was stunned.

It sounds conspiratorial but I believe the parish is teaching the Elect this on purpose. During the past three weeks, we’ve sat at the front of the parish as we go through the Scrutinies. When one of the masculine words comes up, I’ve noticed that the RCIA team says the replacement word loudly. I’m not imagining this; I try to focus on God when I’m at Mass but it’s so noticeable.

So, what should I do? Should I show my fellow Elect what’s going on or should I keep my mouth shut and pray that they learn the right way on their own? I’m afraid that they’re going to visit another parish and be completely lost.

Thanks.

You should:

(a) Show your fellow Elect what the Liturgy actually says and not be intimidated by ANY person of “authority” who would dare to try to snap shut the missalette on you. I’d have not had your restraint-- I’d have opened it right then and showed them. But, don’t delay. They need to know that what they are learning is WRONG.

(b) Report it all to your Bishop (as I suggested in your other post) including this incident

 

[Mark77]

The problem with these changes is not the “good intentions”, it is always the inevitable unintended consequences.

Just like those who attempt to correct the errors of Church members, like Martin Luther’s concerns about corruption via indulgences, good intentions resulted in horrible consequences.

Now within Christianity, we have 20,000+ Protestant denominations, none with Apostolic Succession, most of which deny the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, and many teach outright false doctrines like OSAS and Sola Scriptura…That’s not even talking about the billions of non-Christians.

If we do not work within the rules and procedures of the Church, then we dilute and change the Truth of Jesus Christ, we start to create our own Church.

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

Mark

 

[BSHoop96]

In defense of the priest, he is very passive and I believe he just turns the other way. He is fairly old and he messes up fairly often during the Mass. I’ve always been under the impression that he’s more concerned with his part than with ours. I hope that doesn’t sound bad or if I worded anything wrong.

That makes me sad. Poor guy. Sounds like lay people are taking advantage to change things the way they want.

I’m not sure this parish wants to change. I should point out that this parish has a huge congregation. Every Sunday is packed; there are people hanging out outside waiting to get in. If I had to estimate, I would say that there are around 350-400 people at the 11:15 Mass every Sunday.

I shouldn’t give up on the place since they’ve been so welcoming to me and embraced me. I have a lot of praying to do.

Well that could be a problem. I hope the Bishop is open to hearing something he might not want to hear from a parish that is large and doing well. BUT what’s the point in doing well if laity have taken over and are changing things? Especially if the priest is older and possibly having some problems. Who is looking out for him??

They may be welcoming and you might have some guilt about leaving but the Church should come first. If you leave be sure to tell them why.

As far as just leaving them to their “bad behavior”…I would have to report it I think. There is a poster on here who is very knowledgable about liturgy and exactly what steps to be taken, who to contact, etc. to report something. You might ask her. She goes by “Benedictgal”.

I am still thinking about that person coming up and closing your missal while you were explaining to another candidate. Absolutely amazing! It shows that they know exactly what they are doing! And it’s wrong. Good luck.

 

[zab]

Surely there are times that people raise their hands and ask questions in RCIA. I would raise **my hand and say nicely…“I’m confused as to why all the gender pronouns in the liturgy are changed.” **You can even say you have been doing some studying and it was your understanding that this wasn’t to be done so you are wondering.

I’m not one of those people that suggest running to the Bishop to tattle but as someone else pointed out this is being TAUGHT. And it must have the approval of the priest if it’s rampant. They will of course give you some reason that makes perfect sense to them (as if that’s relevant) but at least you will have planted a bug in the ear of the other Elect. Then after you are received into the Church I would compose a letter to the Bishop and list all these examples. AND I would then pray on whether to change parishes or stay and try to help “educate” this one. Maybe both…stay and then if you are constantly in turmoil with no results…change parishes.

I agree with BSHoop96 that this is the best way to handle this, that is, to politely ask the question in RCIA class. Don’t worry about the answer or trying to get your point across. The important thing is that you will have “planted a bug in the ear of the other Elect.”

But speaking from experience, I also join Eric_Olsen in warning you that (no matter how polite you may be in asking your question) you may be ridiculed and/or labeled as a troublemaker by those who may see you as a threat to their agenda.