Should I stay Away from Confession/Mass

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HereticalTheist

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  1. I am a Catholic, spent years away from the Church and I came back after having a religious experience in a Church last month.
  2. I find the Church’s teachings on abortion, contraception, and same-sex unions, risible and repugnant to reason.
  3. I doubt Papal Supremacy and the infallibility of the Magesterium.
  4. But I believe in the real presence, and all the sacraments.
So should I go to confession tell the priest this, and then take communion. or I am just going to burn in Hell for eternity? (this is not a joke).
 
HereticalTheist said:
  1. I
    So should I go to confession tell the priest this, and then take communion. or I am just going to burn in Hell for eternity? (this is not a joke).
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you should go to confession, tell the priest all this and follow his direction. He is the priest, we are not.
 
Please talk to a Priest.The Churches teaching are not a pick and choose of what you like or don’t like.They are the truth.
 
HereticalTheist said:
  1. I find the Church’s teachings on abortion, contraception, and same-sex unions, risible and repugnant to reason.
A lot of people do, and it is generally because they are not educated in the theology and history and socilolgical reasons behind those teachings.

You should talk to a priest, and preferably one whom you deem to be on an intellectual par with you. If you do go to confession, you should mention these doubts to the priest. He won’t be able to spend a lot of time going over them with you, but he may be able to give you a start. I think an appointment is a better idea, you could always confess when meeting with him if you want.
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HereticalTheist said:
  1. I am a Catholic, spent years away from the Church and I came back after having a religious experience in a Church last month.
  2. I find the Church’s teachings on abortion, contraception, and same-sex unions, risible and repugnant to reason.
  3. I doubt Papal Supremacy and the infallibility of the Magesterium.
  4. But I believe in the real presence, and all the sacraments.
So should I go to confession tell the priest this, and then take communion. or I am just going to burn in Hell for eternity? (this is not a joke).
Click to expand...
Please, just have faith in God. You think some positions of the Church are invalid. Fair enough. But you clearly believe the Church is the real Church. In that case, consider all of your positions which conflict with the Church as mere doubts that we all have, and allow the Holy Spirit resolve them, whichever way. If you feel doubts, that’s one thing. Lots of Catholics have much more extensive doubts than you do. However, if you actively maintain a position against the Church, that’s another. Doubt the Church’s position on abortion, but do not be “pro-choice.” Does that make sense?

You will be in my prayers.
 
HereticalTheist said:
Any idea what he is likely to say?
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If you were to arrange an appotintment with a good priest outside of Confession, he might say something like:

"I urge you to research the reasons behind the Church’s teachings on the Magisterium and Infallibility. It is of paramount importance for you to be able to accept the authority of the Church [perhaps gives arguments for these teachings]

“With regard to the other teachings that you disagree with, I would urge you to do the same However, even if then you still cannot understand them, you must still accept them based on your belief in the infallibility of the Church. Then you make a good Confession and all will be well.”

At least, that is the gist of what I would say—it seems to be more or less conventional wisdom. He would probably be a lot less stark and a lot more encouraging than I have just been, however. :o

(I advise you NOT to go to Confession unless you intend to immediately change your beliefs, but rather to arrange an appointment with a good priest outside of Confession.)
 
HereticalTheist said:
  1. I am a Catholic, spent years away from the Church and I came back after having a religious experience in a Church last month.
  2. I find the Church’s teachings on abortion, contraception, and same-sex unions, risible and repugnant to reason.
  3. I doubt Papal Supremacy and the infallibility of the Magesterium.
  4. But I believe in the real presence, and all the sacraments.
So should I go to confession tell the priest this, and then take communion. or I am just going to burn in Hell for eternity? (this is not a joke).
Click to expand...
  1. I’m glad to here you are returning to the Church.
  2. Of course this is something to be dealt with. I understand the difficulty of it. While I don’t disagree at all with the teachings on abortion and contraception, the same-sex union issue has been something I’ve thought about, mostly because I have a “Why do I have to care about this?” viewpoint. I accept the Church’s teaching on it, but I focus my efforts more on reversing Roe vs. Wade then I do about opposing gays getting married in an civil ceremony. However, I am still against gay marriage, but I feel as though getting abortion criminalized is much more important than keeping gay marriage from being legalized. I don’t know, I try my best, it’s all I can do.
  3. We all have doubts every once and a while. I do admit, it’s hard for me to accept the idea of teachings from mortal people being infallible, but, I must, so I do.
  4. This is a good thing, and I am happy that you are comfortable with knowing this fact.
 
“I find the Church’s teachings on abortion, contraception, and same-sex unions, risible and repugnant to reason.”

Christian belief on these issues is non-negotiable.

Jesus established the Kingdom of God, not the Democracy of God.
 
HereticalTheist said:
  1. I am a Catholic, spent years away from the Church and I came back after having a religious experience in a Church last month.
  2. I find the Church’s teachings on abortion, contraception, and same-sex unions, risible and repugnant to reason.
  3. I doubt Papal Supremacy and the infallibility of the Magesterium.
  4. But I believe in the real presence, and all the sacraments.
So should I go to confession tell the priest this, and then take communion. or I am just going to burn in Hell for eternity? (this is not a joke).
Click to expand...
To be honest with you, you have to understand that we consider some of your beliefs to be sinful. I don’t mean any disrespect by that, it’s just the truth and I don’t want to sugar coat it. In order to be absolved through confession, we do have to repent. To repent we have to accept that what we are confessing is wrong, and make a true effort to turn away from it. I can’t say what the priest will tell you if you go to him, but you are going to have to accept, if you want to be part of the Church, that you are wrong in some of your positions.
There’s nothing wrong with feeling how you do. I feel the same way sometimes - I find my personal opinions on some issues don’t line up with the Church, but I will go with the Church over my feelings. I love to quote St. Ignatius de Loyola, the founder of the Jesuits, on this. He said: “We should always be disposed to believe that that which appears white is really black, if the hierarchy of the Church so decides."
I can understand that that may sound repugnant to you. We all want to be independent and believe what we want, but we have to swallow our pride (even if we don’t admit that we have it) and follow the Church instead of ourselves. To use logic, the Church has more chance of holding the Truth than we do. It is more logical that an organization dating back to Jesus’ own time should be more likely to hold the truth, by the odds, than someone born 1900ish years later like you or I. Basically, it makes no sense that our own brand new opinions should be truer than what came first, not simply because it came first, but because we came last. Why would God hold His Truth until so many years later?
Is God perfect? Is He all powerful? Did He create us, and does He love us all? I answer yes to all of those. If they are true, if He is all powerful and perfect, surely He could protect His Word from error? Surely the Scriptures should be without error, and the Church as well? If we can trust neither of those, what can we trust? Ourselves?
So, as much as you disagree with the Church, in order to be part of it, and I believe probably wish to be or you wouldn’t have asked in the first place, you will have to swallow your pride and lower your head, and accept what it teaches, and what Scripture says, rather than what you think. There are others who feel like you do, and some are able to do this - others aren’t. Stick around here and you will learn much (who knows, you might even have misconceptions) and everyone here is happy to answer any questions you might have.
 
presidentjlh said:
  1. I’m glad to here you are returning to the Church.
  2. Of course this is something to be dealt with. I understand the difficulty of it. While I don’t disagree at all with the teachings on abortion and contraception, the same-sex union issue has been something I’ve thought about, mostly because I have a “Why do I have to care about this?” viewpoint. I accept the Church’s teaching on it, but I focus my efforts more on reversing Roe vs. Wade then I do about opposing gays getting married in an civil ceremony. However, I am still against gay marriage, but I feel as though getting abortion criminalized is much more important than keeping gay marriage from being legalized. I don’t know, I try my best, it’s all I can do.
  3. We all have doubts every once and a while. I do admit, it’s hard for me to accept the idea of teachings from mortal people being infallible, but, I must, so I do.
  4. This is a good thing, and I am happy that you are comfortable with knowing this fact.
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Update:

I did wind up going…the priest spoke to me about it not being a sin to have my doctrinal doubts and worries, and urged me to make a leap of faith in the dark. He seemed nonplussed by it.

Oh well…I guess i soldier on…and go to mass in the morning.
 
HereticalTheist said:
  1. I am a Catholic, spent years away from the Church and I came back after having a religious experience in a Church last month.
  2. I find the Church’s teachings on abortion, contraception, and same-sex unions, risible and repugnant to reason.
Click to expand...
If you are going to come on a Catholic message board at least have the dignity and respect to not mock Catholic teachings. You might find Catholic teachings to be something to be laughed at but there are many that take them seriously. I find your pro-abortion, pro-birth control, pro-homosexual views to be sophomoric and bestial in its treatment of the human person. There is not much anyone can do for unless are at least open-minded to the church teachings. I think God would send you to hell for going to church and only believing in a small portion of what the church actually teaches rather than rejecting the religion outright. Jesus was particularly condemning of the lukewarm. For someone that talks about the church’s teachings lacking reason, you seem to have forgotten the phrase in Matthew “The gates of hell shall never prevail.” This means that if the church is proven wrong in its teachings then the faith is untrue because Jesus himself promised the church would never fall to Satan. A false or incorrect teaching is the prevalence of hell over the right teaching of Christ, no? This means the church is a take it or leave it proposition. Scripture says God knows the heart. I think God is more concerned with someone following what they believe to be true and seeking truth than following a religion where you like one or two elements of the faith but reject everything else.

You should not go to communion until you sort out these beliefs because taking communion is the tacit acceptance of all the teachings of the church. It is not merely partaking in the real presence but also is an acceptance of the authority of the church. The church believes that with the same authority given to it by Christ to forgive sins and to lead his church comes with it the authority to bind the faithful to accept all its teachings in order to be in full communion with the church. If you accept the sacraments then it is illogical to not accept the authority of the church because the authority of the church and the sacrament of penance come from the same passage in the bible. If you are going to reject the authority of the church, you reject the ability to forgive sins since the power for both is in the same loose and binding passage of Matthew 16. You are a lapsed Catholic anyways so you need to go to confession otherwise you will go to hell if you take communion. It is the sin of sacrilege.
 
HereticalTheist, if they kicked out all of us who have ever had any doubts the room would be empty.

Try to put your doubts aside and pray to God for more faith. (This is one prayer that He always answers quickly!)

If you continue to have doubts then continue to go to confession and keep going to Mass. Above all, keep praying.

I’ll pray for you as well and ask you to do the same for me?
 
adv1sor said:
HereticalTheist, if they kicked out all of us who have ever had any doubts the room would be empty.

Try to put your doubts aside and pray to God for more faith. (This is one prayer that He always answers quickly!)

If you continue to have doubts then continue to go to confession and keep going to Mass. Above all, keep praying.

I’ll pray for you as well and ask you to do the same for me?
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The best advice yet.
 
mjs1987 said:
If you are going to come on a Catholic message board at least have the dignity and respect to not mock Catholic teachings. You might find Catholic teachings to be something to be laughed at but there are many that take them seriously. I find your pro-abortion, pro-birth control, pro-homosexual views to be sophomoric and bestial in its treatment of the human person. There is not much anyone can do for unless are at least open-minded to the church teachings. I think God would send you to hell for going to church and only believing in a small portion of what the church actually teaches rather than rejecting the religion outright. Jesus was particularly condemning of the lukewarm. For someone that talks about the church’s teachings lacking reason, you seem to have forgotten the phrase in Matthew “The gates of hell shall never prevail.” This means that if the church is proven wrong in its teachings then the faith is untrue because Jesus himself promised the church would never fall to Satan. A false or incorrect teaching is the prevalence of hell over the right teaching of Christ, no? This means the church is a take it or leave it proposition. Scripture says God knows the heart. I think God is more concerned with someone following what they believe to be true and seeking truth than following a religion where you like one or two elements of the faith but reject everything else.

You should not go to communion until you sort out these beliefs because taking communion is the tacit acceptance of all the teachings of the church. It is not merely partaking in the real presence but also is an acceptance of the authority of the church. The church believes that with the same authority given to it by Christ to forgive sins and to lead his church comes with it the authority to bind the faithful to accept all its teachings in order to be in full communion with the church. If you accept the sacraments then it is illogical to not accept the authority of the church because the authority of the church and the sacrament of penance come from the same passage in the bible. If you are going to reject the authority of the church, you reject the ability to forgive sins since the power for both is in the same loose and binding passage of Matthew 16. You are a lapsed Catholic anyways so you need to go to confession otherwise you will go to hell if you take communion. It is the sin of sacrilege.
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You misunderstand…(a) As I said I believe in the Real Presence, and in all 7 sacraments…however (b) I had (and still have) my doubts about a very narrow subset of the churches dogmatic teachings. Obviously I do accept the teaching authority of the Magisterium for the most part, but on these particular issues my conscience and reasons give me pangs. and (c) none of these are ex cathedra, infallibly defined, once and for all, positions. They simply belong to the depositum fideium, to which we are required to assent. Even though the bishops have the power to bind, that power is not absolute. They could not, even if they chose to, for instance, bind all believers to the belief that electrons have positive charges, or that the Earth is 40 days old. So there are limitations. It’s not a matter of accepting the Church’s authority only partially, I accept it fully. I just wonder where the boundaries of Magisterial power are properly to be drawn.
 
mjs1987 said:
You are a lapsed Catholic anyways so you need to go to confession otherwise you will go to hell if you take communion.
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I suggest we do not judge a person like that. We do not know it all. I don’t mean it mean, but while yes, we disagree with him on the church’s infallibility, we should not condemn someone to Hell on it.
 
HereticalTheist said:
You misunderstand…(a) As I said I believe in the Real Presence, and in all 7 sacraments…however (b) I had (and still have) my doubts about a very narrow subset of the churches dogmatic teachings. Obviously I do accept the teaching authority of the Magisterium for the most part, but on these particular issues my conscience and reasons give me pangs. and (c) none of these are ex cathedra, infallibly defined, once and for all, positions. They simply belong to the depositum fideium, to which we are required to assent. Even though the bishops have the power to bind, that power is not absolute. They could not, even if they chose to, for instance, bind all believers to the belief that electrons have positive charges, or that the Earth is 40 days old. So there are limitations. It’s not a matter of accepting the Church’s authority only partially, I accept it fully. I just wonder where the boundaries of Magisterial power are properly to be drawn.
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As you explain your position even more, it is even clearer that you are not nearly in as dire a situation as you thought. Go to confession, confess (among anything else) that you have been missing mass (if you have), confess any extent to which you have voluntarily opposed the Church, and then go to Mass. What you have are doubts; they should not separate you from the Eucharist, assuming you are not voluntarily setting yourself against the Church.
 
presidentjlh said:
I suggest we do not judge a person like that. We do not know it all. I don’t mean it mean, but while yes, we disagree with him on the church’s infallibility, we should not condemn someone to Hell on it.
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Yeah, every time I think about re-joining the Catholic Church, someone like mjs1987 comes along and convinces me that I made the right decision by leaving!
 
if you have a different opinion about Church teachings but you still have an open mind to accepting it, then you’ve not completely fallen away from the Church. confessing won’t change your beliefs and i would advise not to receive communion until you are in full union with the beliefs of the Church. but still go to mass and perhaps attend several talks from the Church regarding those issues you have mentioned and perhaps you will be more enlightened and convinced to agree with the Church on those matters
 
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