Should I stay or should I go now?

[Big_Dummy]

Hi Michael, the good works of those who have passed on or died are often exagerated – did you know that St. Nick punched Arius in the noise? The good fruits you are expected to have are described in Matthew 25 which seperates the goats from the sheep. There is also the fruit of the Spirit in Gal 5 contrasted with the fruits of the flesh. Read Romans 12 and Eph 5:18 and the book of Acts. Ask God to daily fill you with his Holy Spirit and look for opportunities to help others.

As for defending doctrine, make a distinction between major and minor theology. Don’t be affraid to say, I don’t know the answer and that you will get back to them. In the mean time form an apologetics bible study group and read books like those by Dave Armstrong.

 

[TurboVW]

Recently, for some reason I have become more aware of when the fruit of faith seems more or less apparent; granted it is only my opinion. For example, maybe it’s just where I live and work, however it seems like many at Mass just are not interested in greeting one another with a sign of peace. Also, when Catholics are asked about briefly explaining what they believe, there often seems a hesitancy to share that (and sometimes appear unable to explain), where that hesitancy is usually not there among many Protestants I meet. Then, most (not all!) Catholics I talk with, unless they are priests, seem much less comfortable with referencing and understanding Scripture, where that comfort is usually there among many Protestants I meet. Finally, reading a thread tonight about the perpetual virginity, which I myself question, I found the Protestant posters reasonable and charitable, while I could not always view many of the Catholic replies as reasonable and charitable. And other experiences particularly over the last week, and also over the last few years, have led me to wonder, how did we get into the state of often not being able to share or reflect in our actions what we profess to believe, or not be fluent in Scripture and the catechism, while we can often quote the lastest statistics of our favorite sports team and players, and what time the next game is on, and what channel?
l

Don’t miss the forest for the trees. I too have felt like this from time to time…but then its during these times that I realize I can’t depend on other human beings for my faith and spirituality alone. No one is perfect, no matter where you go.

If we Catholics might be hesitant in explaining what we believe, a cause to this might because some are hesitant in opening a can of worms. In today’s world, we’re constantly having threats to our Church in many, many ways. It’s a simple matter of fight or flight, and some people are just tired of it all and see a simple explanation request as a threat.

I’ve also noticed many Catholics tend to have a deeper sense of spirituality then what they show on the surface, and for many, it’s not always easy to talk about such a deep and personal thing. Thus, things such as the handshake of peace or specific scripture passages become trivial in the larger scope of the faith for some.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Michael, maybe think about for a while why you are Catholic. What it is that keeps you. (I hope it is Christ.)

Prayers for you.

Rebecca

 

[wisdomseeker]

Sometimes I feel like I’m being pulled out of the Catholic Church. Seriously. What words would you have for someone like me? How would you “re-evangelize” me?

Having grown-up Catholic, I deepened my Catholic faith several years ago when challenged by Protestant friends to take my faith seriously. Their misrepresentations of Catholic teaching sparked a drive to study and learn my faith, praying, reading the catechism and Scripture to find answers to questions of faith that arose. At times I have spent time attempting to defend or represent the Catholic faith on an anti-Catholic forum. It is amazing the anomosity some former “Catholics” have for the Catholic faith.

However, one of the thoughts that keeps coming back to me, is concerning recognizing true faith by the fruits. Which of course can be subjective or biased. Mt 7:16-20 "“You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits.”

Recently, for some reason I have become more aware of when the fruit of faith seems more or less apparent; granted it is only my opinion. For example, maybe it’s just where I live and work, however it seems like many at Mass just are not interested in greeting one another with a sign of peace. Also, when Catholics are asked about briefly explaining what they believe, there often seems a hesitancy to share that (and sometimes appear unable to explain), where that hesitancy is usually not there among many Protestants I meet. Then, most (not all!) Catholics I talk with, unless they are priests, seem much less comfortable with referencing and understanding Scripture, where that comfort is usually there among many Protestants I meet. Finally, reading a thread tonight about the perpetual virginity, which I myself question, I found the Protestant posters reasonable and charitable, while I could not always view many of the Catholic replies as reasonable and charitable. And other experiences particularly over the last week, and also over the last few years, have led me to wonder, how did we get into the state of often not being able to share or reflect in our actions what we profess to believe, or not be fluent in Scripture and the catechism, while we can often quote the lastest statistics of our favorite sports team and players, and what time the next game is on, and what channel?

I guess I’m just a little discouraged that we can sometimes “defend” or argue for the perpetual virginity of Mary (or against Protestant teachings) with little, if any, directly referenced support from the Early Church Fathers, which we indirectly make reference to, yet at the same time have difficulty explaining the basics of what we believe and why, often with little if any Scripture references.

I remember listening to EWTN on the way to work yesterday morning, and hearing a homily focusing on how marvelous St Francis was, and wondering why it is seldom mentioned that as a young adult, he stole from his own father? Can we not see the good in a saint, without being afraid to admit they were human with faults and temptations as we have today as Catholics?

God bless,

Michael

I think this is something to watch for. i think each of us must bare good fruits through our own actions. i dont think that this can be a collective thing, since we dont know what the other person will do.

 

[AndyP2010]

mommafish

I grew up in a small town where the single Catholic parish was surrounded by Protestant denominations, and parishes in such situations can develop a siege mentality. The members may often feel like it is all that they can do is to hang on to what they got. Membership in the parish may have been dwindling for years, and each new defection seems like a defeat for those that have been left behind. The older parishioners may be waiting to see if your going to stick it out before they reach out to you. It sounds like you have talents that this parish desperately needs and this all might require time and patience on your part. Also don’t worry about your children needing to go to another churches pre-school for your children to learn that Jesus loves them. They will learn that from you first and foremost. Remember, that you wouldn’t be where you are if that wasn’t where God meant you to be.

Good Luck and God bless you.

 

[asia53]

Dear Michael,

Please don’t give up hope. Keep praying!
GraceDK;2832389:

To sum up my thoughts:
-Catholics seem to show no enthusiasm

• unwilling to evangelise
• unaware of Scripture and the Bible is hardly ever seen at Mass
• no teaching on the Bible as in laying out salvation history with powerful and challenging preaching …
• the displaying of saints as angels and the apparent linking holiness with the gifts of the Holy Spirit as if these two were intimately linked which is not always the case.
  -a totally passified laity vs. the words in 1 Cor 12.
• no really well founded apologetics for the ideas that seem most foreign to Protestants, like the dogmas about Mary, it seems the Catholic Church has complicated many things and made less important things too important.

Dear Grace,

Let me address some of your above points. I can only speak for my parish, and archdiocese.

1.) No enthusiasm… Not around here, several parishes including my own, have a very active youth ministry, senior ministry, peer ministry, etc. My parish had people volunteering for the jobs, and ministries at the church. Response was overwhelming.

2.) Evangalize… My parish started last summer. We did door-to-door with 2 teams, two of us staying at the church praying, sometimes joined by Father, if his schedule permitted. We had a mixed-bag result. We’ve called a halt for the season, winter coming, but will be back at it in late spring next year. Our archbishop asked us to do this.

3.) No teaching on the Bible…Last spring, I finished The Great Adventure Timeline. It’s a Bible course about salvation history, starting with Genesis, and ending with the establishment of the Church. We had Bible readings, and questions to answer every week. Homework would take me anywhere from 2 to 6 hours, in preparation for the next week. I loved this course, it was powerful, and it was challenging. Now, when Father or anyone quotes chapter and verses, I know where it is in the Bible, can recall the historical significance, and correlate it with salvation history. Currently, I’m studying the Gospel of St. John with 30 other people. This summer, we may study Revelations, we’re still talking about this. My parish isn’t alone in offering Bible courses. Several parishes around this area do, and anyone is welcome. Plus my parish offers monthly lectures by learned people, last month- The Laity and Vatican II, this month-Changes to the Missal-Why, What and When, and next month, Mother Mary. We have the Denver Catholic Biblical School, dedicated exclusively to the study of the Bible–enrollment hasn’t been a problem for them.

4.) displaying of saints as angels…I’ve never seen this. I’ll have to No Comment.

5.) a totally pacified laity…I need further explanation on this. Which part of 1 Cor 12?

6.) apologetics… There are so many very well founded apologetics, Dr Tim Gray, Scott Hahn,etc. (I’ve only read those two, but I do know, there are more.) As to apologetics for Mary, two books, “Hail, Holy Queen”, Scott Hahn, and “Queen Mother”, Dr. Edward Sri. Both excellent books!

Maybe, it’s a regional thing. We’re very blessed in the Denver Metro area.

God bless you,

Asia

 

[Edward_H]

Didn’t Jesus and the apostles have a similar discussion about whether and where the apostles might “go”?

What was Peter’s response? “To whom shall we go”

What if Mary had given up, or any of the saints?

My recommendation would be to ask for more faith, hope, and more joy. Work on deepening your interior life…a little every day. Think less about yourself, and more about how you can bring hope and joy to others.