Should I still receive communion from this priest?

[Brooklyn]

The spiritual state of a priest has no effect on the validity of the sacraments. He can be in a complete state of mortal sin and the Eucharist would still be completely valid, because he is not the one doing it, but our Lord. The priest was ordained, and he never loses that, just as once we are baptized, we never lose that, even though we can lose that state of grace.

In a parish I was attending, I don’t know who the priests actually voted for, but I do know that when Obama was elected, one of the priests praised it as a glorious event. If he had just kept it to himself, I wouldn’t have been upset, but the fact that he talked about in his Sunday homily really bothered me, and I’ve had a hard time going back to that church. I can’t judge his soul, and neither can anyone else. I had always liked his homilies before that time, but now I have a hard time accepting anything he says.

And yes, unless you heard it directly from the priest, who he voted for is a subject of gossip, and we really shouldn’t be discussing it.

Very difficult times we are living in. Keep praying.

Mary

 

[Galnextdoor]

Earnest_Bunbury:

So… Communion or no?

Sooooo Sorry! I was trying to persuade Texas Roofer after the thread was hi-jacked.

To the OP if you are still following this thread, the best thing for you to do is read my link above by the man who founded Operation Rescue. He quotes John Paul II’s writing about encouraging the Bishops to become involved in political projects that will effect the nations laws about life.

If you read that link, you might understand how a priest might have become confused enough to vote for Obama. We cannot judge the priests conscience. If he actually voted for Obama, I’m sure he now regrets it.

Here is what EWTN has to say about priests with mortal sins on their soul saying mass.

ewtn.com/library/liturgy/zlitur68.htm

When I was a teenager, I had personal knowledge of a priest committing mortal sins. It was extremely difficult for me to go to communion during mass. (He was the only priest in that parish.) However, I would not allow what he did to drive me away from Jesus. I trusted the church as a body founded by Jesus who loved me. I separated the priest as a human being not doing God’s will, from the church body that survived to do God’s will.
If you feel called to start a ministry to do God’s will as taught by the Catholic Church, don’t let a particular human being, priest or not, keep you from doing it.

**To Texas Roofer **, I am sorry you did not take the time read the links I posted some of which came from secular sources (the secular opinion pieces ). You might try reading Psalm 95 and Hebrews 3: 7-15. “If today you hear his voice, harden not your hearts.”
I will pray for you that your heart will not remain hardened against the teachings of the Catholic Church as lead by the Vatican. If you wish to discuss this with an open heart, start your own thread instead of hi-jacking this one. That goes for you too, estes bob.

 

[juliamajor]

Gossip is against the 8th commandment- I suggest reading article #2477,2488,2492 of the Catechism before making judgments on the priest. It is a grave sin to pass gossip,indulge in gossip, spread gossip.People can be ruining this man without justification- .Unless you hear it from the horses mouth it is GOSSIP and IT"S SINFUL!
I’ve seen people’s lives warped and destroyed because of crud like this. there is no justification for it. People should be looking at their own views,& how their thoughts , words, and deeds impact on other peoples lives and not listen to something that may or may not be true.You are making a judgment on someone on rumor only.
Unless you know information as an absolute fact- then it is gossip and it is wrong to talk about it in any way. Even the internet

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Sooooo Sorry! I was trying to persuade Texas Roofer after the thread was hi-jacked.

To the OP if you are still following this thread, the best thing for you to do is read my link above by the man who founded Operation Rescue. He quotes John Paul II’s writing about encouraging the Bishops to become involved in political projects that will effect the nations laws about life.

If you read that link, you might understand how a priest might have become confused enough to vote for Obama. We cannot judge the priests conscience. If he actually voted for Obama, I’m sure he now regrets it.

Here is what EWTN has to say about priests with mortal sins on their soul saying mass.

ewtn.com/library/liturgy/zlitur68.htm

When I was a teenager, I had personal knowledge of a priest committing mortal sins. It was extremely difficult for me to go to communion during mass. (He was the only priest in that parish.) However, I would not allow what he did to drive me away from Jesus. I trusted the church as a body founded by Jesus who loved me. I separated the priest as a human being not doing God’s will, from the church body that survived to do God’s will.
If you feel called to start a ministry to do God’s will as taught by the Catholic Church, don’t let a particular human being, priest or not, keep you from doing it.

**To Texas Roofer **, I am sorry you did not take the time read the links I posted some of which came from secular sources (the secular opinion pieces ). You might try reading Psalm 95 and Hebrews 3: 7-15. “If today you hear his voice, harden not your hearts.”
I will pray for you that your heart will not remain hardened against the teachings of the Catholic Church as lead by the Vatican. If you wish to discuss this with an open heart, start your own thread instead of hi-jacking this one. That goes for you too, estes bob.

Thank you for that wonderful speech from the soap box, now the problem is understanding what the church teaches which is clear. It was not a sin to vote for Obama. It is a sin to support abortion, the two are not synonymous. Similarly the church’s teaching on sacraments is clear; no where does the church call for judgment nor a raise against this priest or any other. Sorry if that hampers you personal agenda

 

[Shin]

It’s still gossip. Unless you hear it from him, it’s gossip.

One factor for the sin of gossip to occur is that there has to be no need to know. The OP states having a need to know, stated plainly that it wasn’t gossip.

Unless the OP’s mind changes about this, I see no evidence that it was gossip.

 

[EasterJoy]

One factor for the sin of gossip to occur is that there has to be no need to know. The OP states having a need to know, stated plainly that it wasn’t gossip.

Unless the OP’s mind changes about this, I see no evidence that it was gossip.

If a person needs only to hold the opinion that she or the person she passes information on to needs to know in order for there to actually* be* a need to know, then ever-increasing American “need to know” mania means that the sin of gossip has now become impossible to commit.

That’s pretty convenient. Busy-bodies everywhere can breathe a sigh of relief.

 

[Shin]

If a person needs only to hold the opinion that she or the person she passes information on to needs to know in order for there to actually* be* a need to know, then ever-increasing American “need to know” mania means that the sin of gossip has now become impossible to commit.

That’s pretty convenient. Busy-bodies everywhere can breathe a sigh of relief.

If I were thinking of starting a pro-life ministry in a parish, I would like to know whether the priest voted for Obama or not. I consider that pertinent information indicating how much support I might get in taking up such a ministry.

I would consider knowing about that vote pertinent information even if I was not starting a ministry in the parish, such a gravely disordered viewpoint would give me the heads up to be aware that all the other potential problems that accompany it.

It’s true that some people can take the ‘need to know’ too far. However, some people can take it in the opposite direction too. See no evil, hear no evil. . . If nobody knows anything. . . Then the abuses we have seen in the newspapers happen.

 

[underhismercy]

If I were thinking of starting a pro-life ministry in a parish, I would like to know whether the priest voted for Obama or not. I consider that pertinent information indicating how much support I might get in taking up such a ministry.

I would consider knowing about that vote pertinent information even if I was not starting a ministry in the parish, such a gravely disordered viewpoint would give me the heads up to be aware that all the other potential problems that accompany it.

It’s true that some people can take the ‘need to know’ too far. However, some people can take it in the opposite direction too. See no evil, hear no evil. . . If nobody knows anything. . . Then the abuses we have seen in the newspapers happen.

Thank you Shin…My concerns exactly. You said it so beautifully

As for the issue of gossip by some of the other posters.

…There was no gossip involved in this request nor in my aquisition of the information. No malicious, idle or indulgent talk…I have named him to no one. That’s just the truth of it. It was a personal struggle for which I was willing to hear the thoughts of others .
But I also thank those who questioned it…never a bad thing to examine one’s actions.

That’s all there was to it…I was at Mass this morning and received communion from his hands with a different heart because of what some of you said. As for the ministry I’ve been asked to head; that will require further discernment…

 

[juliamajor]

Thank you Shin…My concerns exactly. You said it so beautifully

As for the issue of gossip by some of the other posters.

…There was no gossip involved in this request nor in my aquisition of the information. No malicious, idle or indulgent talk…I have named him to no one. That’s just the truth of it. It was a personal struggle for which I was willing to hear the thoughts of others .
But I also thank those who questioned it…never a bad thing to examine one’s actions.

That’s all there was to it…I was at Mass this morning and received communion from his hands with a different heart because of what some of you said. As for the ministry I’ve been asked to head; that will require further discernment…

Sorry-It’s gossip.If it isn’t fact it’s speculation ,if it’s speculation it’s idle talk,if it’s idle talk it is malicious -whichever way you cut it it’s wrong no matter what pious platitudes are promulgated.read the catechism -it’s all in there. it’s actually sad that folks are so easily swayed to think the worst of people without proof.

 

[underhismercy]

Sorry-It’s gossip.If it isn’t fact it’s speculation ,if it’s speculation it’s idle talk,if it’s idle talk it is malicious -whichever way you cut it it’s wrong no matter what pious platitudes are promulgated.read the catechism -it’s all in there. it’s actually sad that folks are so easily swayed to think the worst of people without proof.

By your definition this whole forum is gossip and speculation…
Give it a rest

 

[Cluny]

One factor for the sin of gossip to occur is that there has to be no need to know. The OP states having a need to know, stated plainly that it wasn’t gossip.

Unless the OP’s mind changes about this, I see no evidence that it was gossip.

I don’t see why a parishioner needs to know how a priest filled out his ballot.

Could you explain?

 

[Texas_Roofer]

The reason I asked the question is because I love the Church.I’m not struggling with obedience, but with the sorrow of what I know. I love my Pastor

On your other points let me help you out my good brother…Check it out and God bless you

Catechism of the Catholic Church 2242; 2270- 2275
Acts 5:29

There is no reason to believe your Priest errored. That conclusion is from you, and it is your right to judge him. However I would encourage you not to judge him, particularly in this matter. You could show him where the Vatican instructed Catholics not to vote for Obama, or you could use the UCCB instruction not to vote for Obama. Maybe put those in your hand and take them to him and then listen to his words. Then your judgment would be on a better base.

 

[juliamajor]

By your definition this whole forum is gossip and speculation…
Give it a rest

Oh, please–but you know how to shift targets- I’ll give ya that.

 

[hilde_the_dog]

Great - refuse a call to serivce or ministry because you have a problem with the priest and as it sounds the Bishop. The church needs people to stay not run away from every problem real and percieved. Where would you go? Voting is a personal choice made of personal convictions and feelings. As long as a priest or bishop does not publically contradict church teaching - heresy give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe McCain upset him on voting day. Maybe I should throw my wife out because she voted for Obama. Sinful hethen. I am called to love and try to correct with mercy and patience. I practice my patience regularly on this topic as well as being charitable. With a priest and bishop we also have a call to obidience.

In our parish we just started to have altergirls several months ago. I cannot tell you how angry some parishoners are. Some are angry with the pastor for allowing it. Other angry with a priest who refuses to allow altergirls at his masses at which he is the Celebrant. I told some fellow CCD teachers as an “aspirant” in the per. deaconite program I may not like the bishops decision to allow this, nor the pastors decision to allow it but as a deacon I will be called to obey.

Overall is he a good priest. Openly does he follow church teachings? Would your first criteria for selecting a priest be his voting record

The other Sunday I saw a family from what I percieve as purposely moving from the line of the priest who opposes altergirls to the line of a priest who does not to recieve communion. I saw them move across the aisle. They had earlier left at he beginning of his homily returning at hte end of it. At the recession they all turned their backs to him as he went by. The reading for that day were from St. John on love.

 

[turtle18]

I wouldn’t be able to go to Communion in my Archdiocese if I used the criteria, “the priest voted for Obama.” It would be safe to say a lot of priests in our diocese did.

 

[benedictgal]

I have one better for the OP. My pastor, a good man at heart, wrote a letter to the editor indicating why he had voted for Obama. Unfortunately, our bishop turned a blind eye and said nothing. Regardless of the position that both priests took, the Sacrament remains confected because it is not dependent on the state of the priest’s soul. He still acts in persona Christi.

Am I disappointed with him? Yes. But, if I am at a Mass he celebrates, I know that it is valid and licit, despite the actions that he took in the election and his very public stance. All of us will stand in judgment for what we do.

 

[rosebudsal]

I don’t see why a parishioner needs to know how a priest filled out his ballot.

Could you explain?

I can’t, but I think people think they’re entitled to know everything about their priests. But like the rest of us they (the priests) are private citizens and are entitled to privacy too.

 

[Traditional_Ang]

I recently learned that my priest voted for Obama … On the surface he hides his position well .He puts on a very good front…but as Scripture says, be sure your sin will find you out. Now, my family is devastated to find that he is not who we thought he was. What does the church teach in a case like this ? I can hardly be at peace watching His hands as he consecrates the bread and wine yet knowing he willingly put a pro abortion president in office.

UnderHISMercy:

Are you sure he voted for President Obama and not for Senator McCain or for a Third Party Candidate? How did you find out? The Rumor Mill? or, Did he tell someone who asked him about it?

According to Catholic Doctrine, the Priest confecting the Lord’s Body & Blood during the celebration of the Eucharist could be an AX-MURDERER or a RAPIST and it would still be a VALID Eucharist. While YOUR own state can effect your ability to receive the Grace of the Sacrament, and may even prevent you from receiving it altogether (as in the case of Mortal Sin), the State of the Priest (including heresy and excommunication) does not hinder HIS ability to act as a Priest, to Confect the Eucharist or to Forgive Sins…

You need to resolve the other question (Why he disregarded his Bishop & the USCCB & voted for the most Pro-Abortion President in our Country’s history) with your priest. You probably won’t like the answer, because he will probably say that Obama’s Abortion stance isn’t all that bad, or that Heath-Care Reform, The War in Iraq & the “Torture” of 3 detainees together are more important than the ABORTION of 1.37 Million Babies/Year. Remember, those on the Left consider what was done to 3 of the detainees to be “Torture” in spite of the fact it never fit any of the standard definitions of “Torture”, including that used by the UN.
UN Convention Against Torture
(Scroll down to Part 1, Article 1)
hrweb.org/legal/cat.html

Most of those who supported President Obama don’t, however, consider what’s done to 1.37 Million Babies/Year to be “Torture”, or even what’s done to 16,450 Babies/Year (those killed AFTER the 20th week of Pregnancy when we KNOW they feel pain & know they’re dying) to be “Torture”.
Human Development and Reconsideration of Ensoulment
lifeissues.net/writers/kisc/kisc_10humandevelopment.html

If your priest defends his actions with Option 2, ask him how what is done to the 16,450 Babies who are killed by Abortionists during or after the 20th Week of Pregnancy doesn’t fit the UN Definition of Torture along with just about every other definition of Torture. Here are the photographs showing what happens to these INNOCENT VICTIMS:
Priests for Life - Late Term Abortions
priestsforlife.org/resources/photosassorted/index.htm
priestsforlife.org/resources/photosassorted/index2.htm
Priests for Life - Baby Malachi, A History
priestsforlife.org/resources/abortionimages/babymalachi.htm
priestsforlife.org/resources/abortionimages/malachi.jpg
Priests for Life -** Babies killed at 22 & 24 Weeks**
priestsforlife.org/resources/abortionimages/22week/01_22.jpg
priestsforlife.org/resources/abortionimages/22week/02_22.jpg
priestsforlife.org/resources/abortionimages/24week/01_24.jpg

Print some of these out. and, When this priest tries to convince you that Health-Care and our Invasion/Occupation of Iraq should trump our concerns about the slaughter of the Innocent, show him what is perpetrated on these Innocent Ones all across our Nation. and, Then ask him if he has any second thoughts about his vote which helped to allow and expand this outrage.

If he doesn’t, if he really believes he did the right thing by voting for the most Pro-Abortion President in the history of our Country, you have some serious thinking to do. This isn’t because his Masses aren’t VALID (they are), but because at least part of the basis for his Spiritual Counsel, his Moral Teaching and his Formation of Conscience is NOT on the Rock of Christ and His Church. You need to build your spiritual life on the Rock, NOT on sand. If he’s not building his life on the Rock, and this vote is a sign that at least part of his life isn’t, then he’s not causing people to be building their lives completely on the solid Rock of Christ and His Church.

You just don’t want to be in the position of the man who built his house upon sand, and my fear is that you’ll be in that position if you rely on this priest for Teaching and for Spiritual Counsel. I’d find someone who ACCEPTED and PREACHED the GOSPEL OF LIFE as understood by the Catholic Church if I could.

There’s NO official Church Teaching beyond my first paragraph, but there is what is need for your spiritual health and welfare, and that you have to figure out based on what you’ve heard from the priest and what you already know of the Teachings of the Church.

Your Brother & Servant in Christ, Michael

 

[Traditional_Ang]

The Usual Correction BASED ON READING other posts…

1. I see you heard from someone he supposedly told… Response ASK HIM YOURSELF. He’s your Pastor. If you care about him, talk to HIM about this.
2. I must emphasize - ALL OF THE SACRAMENTS CONFECTED by this priest ARE VALID. That’s the Teaching of the Church.
3. A Priest’s voting record really is not your business unless his political views are preventing him from faithfully Preaching the Gospel of Christ or Teaching the WHOLE Catholic Faith. If he really believes ABORTION isn’t the Slaughter of the Innocent Unborn and evil in and of itself, then you would do well to try to demonstrate to him the error of his ways and bring him to repentance. I’ve provided you with the links - Use them.
4. I would still have qualms about relying on someone to teach me the things of God, form my conscience and provide me with Spiritual Guidance who couldn’t see the difference between things that are issues of Prudential Judgment (Health-Care Reform, the Iraq War, Immigration Reform) and something the Church has always taught to be Evil in and of itself and never to be allowed except as a “Secondary Effect” (Abortion - The Deliberate Killing of the Innocent Unborn).
5. If you really are considering ministry within the Church, you can’t allow the fact that many of the Priests, and possibly even the Bishop, don’t accept or preach the Gospel of Life keep you from pursuing your calling.

I hope this makes sense.

Your Brother & Servant in Christ, Michael

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Thank you for that wonderful speech from the soap box, now the problem is understanding what the church teaches which is clear. It was not a sin to vote for Obama. It is a sin to support abortion, the two are not synonymous. Similarly the church’s teaching on sacraments is clear; no where does the church call for judgment nor a raise against this priest or any other. Sorry if that hampers you personal agenda

Texas Roofeer:

I’m sorry to tell you this, but you’re wrong on one point. The Vatican, and the USCCB, made it pretty clear that voting for a PRO-ABORTION Politician, when a PRO-LIFE POLITICIAN is available IS A SIN, because you were participating in the evil that politician is supporting. Now, I know some people have claimed one could vote for a Pro-Abortion Politician without sinning if there were “Proportionate Reasons” for doing so. Pope Benedict XVI’s reply (as well as that of the USCCB) has been to ask what issues are proportionate to the Slaughter of the Innocent Unborn, which the Church has taught is Evil in and of Itself and NEVER is an issue of Prudential Judgment.

I suggest you go argue with this one with our Lord and with the People He has anointed to lead His Church.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael