Should I tell the priests about the practising gays in the congregation?

[EasterJoy]

Now I feel bad for the opening poster in that the number of blunt replies they have had when they were actually asking a question what they should do. Our Christian Charity in understanding has gone off the rails a little bit in that yes we are accepting that the opening poster shouldnt tell but we could be a little bit more feeling toward the opening poster. Imagine how ‘you’ would feel at a similar line of threads posted to one of ‘your own’ question and all they actually want to know is ‘should they’? We have rather hammered home that they shouldn’t. If anyone reading this post before they post their own reply could they please stop a little and give a little thought to that is it yet another moral lesson to why they shouldn’t tell without any proper feeling given to the opening poster. I am sure they will have got the message by now after three pages of saying ‘don’t tell’. there isn’t any mixed messages here but aren’t we going to town a little bit too much and now we need to give a little feeling or too to the opening poster who probably didn’t expect such a bombshell of response. Ooooh we can be so judgemental when we want to can’t we, one way or other? Well the opening poster has got their answer and can we leave it at that without burdening them too much. After all I thought you guys were strict about various teachings so it is refreshing to read that most of you who posted here would actually go against the teaching and that is nice to read in this circumstance because it does mean there is a definate change but next time we hammer home that church states, remember our replies here please and give the opening poster a break now because there has been one long clear message and that is no- don’t tell.

The end:blush:

You did read the OP’s posts, too, the replies to the initial low-level responses? He did not reply with an “Oh, OK, I just thought I might be responsible to say something.” No, this is how he replied:

Post #13: “… It feels like they are contaiminating the church.”
Post #14: “that kind of look they have for each other. It’s unmistakable lol” [LOL? ]
Post #15: “I want to go to a church and have it feel like it’s a clean place with moral people. Everyone sins, yes, but homosexual sins are especially dirty. It’s in the book of Leviticus.”

I am less concerned with how he feels than with how the other members of his parish are going to feel if he ever opens his mouth like this around them, and how he’s going to feel when he says things like this around the people he actually worships with. Our response on the internet really needs to give him a heads-up concerning the response he’ll garner from a flesh-and-blood fellow parishioner. He needs a bit more than “don’t tell.” He needs a “switch your noodle before someone gets hurt.”

Which of us who do not have this temptation know for certain how we would respond if we did? We have to realize that God knows not just how well we’ve done, but how light was the cross we ourselves have been asked to bear. We had better be ready for some of those with this cross to have the greatest glory in Heaven, because of the weight they learned to bear. Our work is not to judge them for the cross, but to either help them bear it or, if we have no help to offer, to keep ourselves quiet and keep them in prayer. We can hope they’re doing the same for us. Surely there are a lot of people out there with same-sex attraction or an effeminate manner (which are not the same thing!) who have to go home and pray for the people who say things to them like this poster has written.

 

[KendraDZ1902]

This is why God made our skin sensitive such that poly cotton blends are itchy to us.

I’m allergic to synthetic materials. No polyester for this chick! lol

 

[Allegra]

After all I thought you guys were strict about various teachings so it is refreshing to read that most of you who posted here would actually go against the teaching and that is nice to read in this circumstance because it does mean there is a definate change but next time we hammer home that church states, remember our replies here please and give the opening poster a break now because there has been one long clear message and that is no- don’t tell.

The end:blush:

Say what now?

Are you under the impression that not tattle-telling on someone who we don’t even know for sure is committing a sin indicates “going against a teaching”? No one said that homosexual behavior is to be accepted. We merely said that the OP has no business making unfounded accusations against his fellow parishoners and he has no idea whether or not a sin is even taking place. Where exactly is this “definate change”?

 

[KrazyKat]

Now I feel bad for the opening poster in that the number of blunt replies they have had when they were actually asking a question what they should do. Our Christian Charity in understanding has gone off the rails a little bit in that yes we are accepting that the opening poster shouldnt tell but we could be a little bit more feeling toward the opening poster. Imagine how ‘you’ would feel at a similar line of threads posted to one of ‘your own’ question and all they actually want to know is ‘should they’? We have rather hammered home that they shouldn’t. If anyone reading this post before they post their own reply could they please stop a little and give a little thought to that is it yet another moral lesson to why they shouldn’t tell without any proper feeling given to the opening poster. I am sure they will have got the message by now after three pages of saying ‘don’t tell’. there isn’t any mixed messages here but aren’t we going to town a little bit too much and now we need to give a little feeling or too to the opening poster who probably didn’t expect such a bombshell of response. Ooooh we can be so judgemental when we want to can’t we, one way or other? Well the opening poster has got their answer and can we leave it at that without burdening them too much. After all I thought you guys were strict about various teachings so it is refreshing to read that most of you who posted here would actually go against the teaching and that is nice to read in this circumstance because it does mean there is a definate change but next time we hammer home that church states, remember our replies here please and give the opening poster a break now because there has been one long clear message and that is no- don’t tell.

The end:blush:

When someone opens a thread they cannot be that sensitive. You want opinions you should be ready to hear what people have to say. Figure that anyone who spends their time at Mass ogling others is looking for the truth about him/herself. If the oven is hot stay out of the kitchen, when you open a thread you are lighting the match.

Went to Mass today and I cannot tell you even what anyone else was wearing, let alone if they were looking at someone amorously.

 

[Rachel126]

You should definitely not say anything. It’s not your business. You should be spending your time at Mass praying and being with God, not thinking about what other people may or may not be doing at home. If you want to find a perfect congregation with no sinners, good luck with that.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

This is actually a serious problem.

The question is, indeed, what should be done about it. The answer at my parish is absolutely nothing.

I agree, this is a serious problem. People who receive the Eucharist unworthily are essentially harming themselves.

But this is not something that can be fixed by some parish initiative. There is no way that priests can control this, unless they know for a fact that a person is unrepentant in their mortal sin.

It is complicated. The only way to solve the problem of one big sacrilege that is the communion line is that we become really holy. Easy to say, I know. But everything comes down to personal responsibility in the end. We can cheat the church, but we can’t cheat God.

I don’t have an answer for the OP. Unless these men actually do something or say something scandalous in public, I don’t think he can do a thing. It could easily make him look bad, whether his suspicions are correct or not.

 

[PaulinVA]

I agree, this is a serious problem. People who receive the Eucharist unworthily are essentially harming themselves.

But this is not something that can be fixed by some parish initiative. There is no way that priests can control this, unless they know for a fact that a person is unrepentant in their mortal sin.

It is complicated. The only way to solve the problem of one big sacrilege that is the communion line is that we become really holy. Easy to say, I know. But everything comes down to personal responsibility in the end. We can cheat the church, but we can’t cheat God.

I think that every Sunday that nothing is said is about being in a proper state to receive Holy Communion reinforces that everyone should come up and receive. I am not talking about individual people being told, but the Priests know from polls what is going on in the congregation. They could mention it every Sunday. they could put announcements in the bulletin. They could talk about repentenance and confession.

 

[maryjk]

Say what now?

Are you under the impression that not tattle-telling on someone who we don’t even know for sure is committing a sin indicates “going against a teaching”? No one said that homosexual behavior is to be accepted. We merely said that the OP has no business making unfounded accusations against his fellow parishioners and he has no idea whether or not a sin is even taking place. Where exactly is this “definate change”?

I didn’t see any posts here, from the OP, indicating that he knows that this couple is a couple. He is guessing.

From his point of view, I should tattle on the couple I know is using birth control, because they have been married many years, but only have one child. And the young couple that I have seen holding hands? I am sure they are living together or at least having relations outside of marriage, I just know it. I need to report them too.

Oh, and I guess I need to report myself. Why? Because all of the above is just GOSSIP.

(So, yes, OP, you are committing the sin of GOSSIP. You might want to read up on it.)

 

[dconklin]

You know that behaviour that 2 people in love have, or love partners have. It was that kind of look they have for each other. It’s unmistakable lol

I think the sensitivity setting on your Gaydar is set a little too high. I’m thinking you are not praying hard enough if you have time to check out the other guys at church.

 

[EasterJoy]

I agree, this is a serious problem. People who receive the Eucharist unworthily are essentially harming themselves.

But this is not something that can be fixed by some parish initiative. There is no way that priests can control this, unless they know for a fact that a person is unrepentant in their mortal sin.

It is complicated. The only way to solve the problem of one big sacrilege that is the communion line is that we become really holy. Easy to say, I know. But everything comes down to personal responsibility in the end. We can cheat the church, but we can’t cheat God.

I don’t have an answer for the OP. Unless these men actually do something or say something scandalous in public, I don’t think he can do a thing. It could easily make him look bad, whether his suspicions are correct or not.

The concepts of avoiding Holy Communion if one is in serious sin and the necessity of sacramental confession when one is in serious sin are not taught often enough. This teaching doesn’t have to be aimed at some particular parishioner. Some Catholics really do not realize that there are good reasons one ought to refrain from Holy Communion, that what is a balm for a lesser sin is contraindicated for serious sins…and yes, they do need to be reminded from time to time what the serious sins are.

It is a good impulse to run to the Lord when one has committed a serious sin–that impulse should be encouraged! It does make a difference what one does with that impulse, however, and people need to be taught to examine their consciences and how to proceed when one has deliberately decided to commit a serious offense. A pastor cannot assume that they know or that they won’t rationalize the truth away when it applies to them. The need to hear the fundamentals never goes away, no matter who we are, and none of us should be insulted or offended to hear those basic truths.

 

[manualman]

I want to go to a church and have it feel like it’s a clean place with moral people. Everyone sins, yes, but homosexual sins are especially dirty. It’s in the book of Leviticus.

In other words, you want to kneel and pray to God “Thank you God that I am not like THOSE sinners…” If that’s what you’re looking to do and feel, my suggestion is that you read the gospels thoroughly tonight and see how Jesus reacted to people who prayed that prayer.

We all like scapegoats, special groups guilty of especially horrible crimes that make us feel much more righteous. But that’s a trap from the devil. The reality is that you and I need a Savior every bit as much as the most lecherous gay activist.

No matter how obvious it is to your judgment, you have no basis to say anything to anybody unless they are incontrovertibly commiting public sin while being publicly defiant about it. So far you’ve not shown that, so MYOB.

And for the poster surprised at the consistency of the responses on this catholic forum, that response reveals a bit of your own bias. Catholics are against gossip BECAUSE of their catholic faith, not in spite of it.

 

[MarkInOregon]

No. Their behaviour is a matter for them and God.

While in this situation and with the information we pocess it does not seem appropriate to bring this up to the priest–I would like to address the above comment–which expresses a similar idea to what some others have posted in this thread. Their behavior is not simply a matter between them and God any more than my sins are. Sin is corporate in nature–not simply personal. Ones sins affects the whole body of Christ. My sin affects you and me. “I confess to almighty God, and to you, my brothers and sisters…” Let us keep that in mind–the sins of the members of the body of Christ affect the whole body–not simply the individual member.

The Peace of Christ,
Mark

 

[ajecphotos]

My advice is to mind your own business and your own sins. Dont be concerned with others but only with your own failings etc. In my parish there are gays, of which the priest knows about and so be it. It is saddening to see that some people visit Our Lords house only to be concerned with others actions rather than concentrating why they are in Gods house!!

 

[EasterJoy]

While in this situation and with the information we pocess it does not seem appropriate to bring this up to the priest–I would like to address the above comment–which expresses a similar idea to what some others have posted in this thread. Their behavior is not simply a matter between them and God any more than my sins are. Sin is corporate in nature–not simply personal. Ones sins affects the whole body of Christ. My sin affects you and me. “I confess to almighty God, and to you, my brothers and sisters…” Let us keep that in mind–the sins of the members of the body of Christ affect the whole body–not simply the individual member.

The Peace of Christ,
Mark

I agree that if these fellows were teaching that something that is objectively wrong is OK, then those close to them have standing (and probably the duty as brothers in Christ) to point out their error. It would be that way with any serious matter. If they are open and not just suspicious, they put the OP in a different spot. As it is, they do not seem to be going so far as that, and leave him some room to put a different interpretation on the situation.

If they give him any room to say it is even possible they are not indulging in the behaviors he fears they are, he is bound to make the most charitable interpretation, and leave them alone. If they leave no room, but openly advocate in favor of sin, that is another matter. In that case, they have put him over a barrel, and the OP would need to ask his pastor how to handle the situation. He ought to have counsel about how to proceed, though, on account of how much this upsets him. He needs to be guided by a clear head and a compassionate heart that thirsts for souls, and not a churning gut. That is the thing, above all: He needs to see these fellows as souls for whom the Lord thirsts, whether sinner or saint, and not some dirty or inferior kind of being to any of the rest of us. Drumming them out of the parish would be the worst possible outcome.

 

[MarkInOregon]

I agree that if these fellows were teaching that something that is objectively wrong is OK, then those close to them have standing (and probably the duty as brothers in Christ) to point out their error. It would be that way with any serious matter. If they are open and not just suspicious, they put the OP in a different spot. As it is, they do not seem to be going so far as that, and leave him some room to put a different interpretation on the situation.

If they give him any room to say it is even possible they are not indulging in the behaviors he fears they are, he is bound to make the most charitable interpretation, and leave them alone. If they leave no room, but openly advocate in favor of sin, that is another matter. In that case, they have put him over a barrel, and the OP would need to ask his pastor how to handle the situation. He ought to have counsel about how to proceed, though, on account of how much this upsets him. He needs to be guided by a clear head and a compassionate heart that thirsts for souls, and not a churning gut. That is the thing, above all: He needs to see these fellows as souls for whom the Lord thirsts, whether sinner or saint, and not some dirty or inferior kind of being to any of the rest of us. Drumming them out of the parish would be the worst possible outcome.

I agree with you, but it has just been expressed or hinted at several times on this thread–that our sins are between us and God–as if no one else is affected. I simply want people to be aware that that is not the case. There is a corporate nature to our sin and when we sin we affect the whole body of Christ. I just wanted to make sure people realize this. I was in no way implying that because of this the OP should run to his priest–I thought I was clear on that. I just don’t want us sitting around thinking our sin is some private matter that affects no one else. When you keep that in mind it drives home the point–even more – how terrible sin is–not only do I put my soul at risk but I, through my sin, damage the body of Christ and put other souls at risk.

The peace of Christ,
Mark

 

[EasterJoy]

I agree with you, but it has just been expressed or hinted at several times on this thread–that our sins are between us and God–as if no one else is affected. I simply want people to be aware that that is not the case. There is a corporate nature to our sin and when we sin we affect the whole body of Christ. I just wanted to make sure people realize this. I was in no way implying that because of this the OP should run to his priest–I thought I was clear on that. I just don’t want us sitting around thinking our sin is some private matter that affects no one else. When you keep that in mind it drives home the point–even more – how terrible sin is–not only do I put my soul at risk but I, through my sin, damage the body of Christ and put other souls at risk.

The peace of Christ,
Mark

Yes. There is a fine line to be walked when it comes to fraternal correction, but your point is well-taken: we would do well to remember that the whole concept of “my sin doesn’t hurt anyone but me” is a patent falsehood. We are quite capable of assuming the best of others and minding our own business when we have the option without forgetting that one.

 

[edwest2]

Unless there is direct evidence, then telling the priest is not warranted. If there is nothing more than a look or a guess than telling the priest is not warranted. However, the issue for all Catholics is this:

freep.com/article/20130408/NEWS05/304080041/Detroit-area-Catholic-leaders-urge-gay-marriage-supporters-to-skip-Communion

Peace,
Ed

 

[april32010]

last time he op posted on this thread was 2 days and 60 posts ago

 

[maryjk]

last time he op posted on this thread was 2 days and 60 posts ago

And that was the last time the OP logged in, as well.

 

[kozlosap]

Unless there is direct evidence, then telling the priest is not warranted. If there is nothing more than a look or a guess than telling the priest is not warranted. However, the issue for all Catholics is this:

freep.com/article/20130408/NEWS05/304080041/Detroit-area-Catholic-leaders-urge-gay-marriage-supporters-to-skip-Communion

Peace,
Ed

Ed, even if there is direct evidence there is no fathomable reason for him to go to the pastor. (Unless, of course, he is the gay guard sitting at the front door with his clipboard in hand)