Should I work where abortions happen?

[Houro]

As part of my job I have to work in a public hospital and in doing so I have to work on a birthing suite where one of the rooms is ‘dedicated’ to terminations/abortions. Should I be working on this ward? Does my work on this ward give support to the terminations that take place? Should I refuse to work there based on the services that they provide to women?

Thanks for your replies!

Blessings,

Patrick

 

[catharina]

As part of my job I have to work in a public hospital and in doing so I have to work on a birthing suite where one of the rooms is ‘dedicated’ to terminations/abortions. Should I be working on this ward? Does my work on this ward give support to the terminations that take place? Should I refuse to work there based on the services that they provide to women?

Thanks for your replies!

Blessings,

Patrick

Patrick, I can’t say what you should do
but I know that I would NOT work there.

 

[Australis]

If your assistance is required in that room then have a think about why you studied for your chosen field and what you aspire to achieve within your field.

 

[JRKH]

I agree with Australis here. If you are required by your job to assist in any way in that room then I would say no you should not work there.
If not, then your presence on the ward could be put to good use by God.

I remember sometime back here someone related how their husbnad was working on a building that was to house an abortion clinic. He was laying concrete block and managed to insert 3 miraculous medals into the walls. From the start the clinic had trouble attracting clients and eventually closed.

There is more than one way to “skin a cat” as the old saying goes.

Peace
James

 

[Jesus_123]

+Dear Patrick,

As **God’s **child you appear to have found yourself in a situation involving the deepening of the spiritual formation of a good conscience . . .

It is a great sadness that your employer . . . *the hospital *. . . is tragically actively engaged in purposefully planning and actively involved in . . . and is personally profiting from . . . the . . . intentional . . . premeditated . . . murder . . . of innocent completely defenseless vulnerable human beings . . . precious little children . . . who were created by God in His image . . . and who are completely unable to defend themselves and their lives as they are being killed . . . this is truly a type of the continuation of the Satanic slaughtering of the innocents in Bethlehem which is written of in the New Testament . . . and it is the gravest of mortal sins . . . and is completely morally indefensible . . . and your employers are involved in constantly and deceptively brutally deliberately violating and ravaging the bodies, souls and spirits of the mothers who consent to these grevious killings . . . perhaps the real question is . . . do you really want to be involved in any way with employers who are committing these mortal sins against God and your fellow man . . . ? . . . **murder is murder . . . no matter how people try to deceive themselves and rationalize their thoughts away from this gruesome reality and truth . . . and unless your employers truly repent before God ** for their grievious sins . . . they will arrive at the final judgement seat of God with innocent shed blood saturating their garments and covering and dripping from their hands . . .

:bible1: Matthew 2:16 Then Herod perceiving that he was deluded by the wise men, was exceeding angry; and sending killed all the men children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the borders thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men.​

**. . . :coffeeread: . . . **

CATECHISM
OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

Article 6
Moral Conscience

**1776 **
"Deep within his conscience man discovers a law which he has not laid upon himself but which he must obey. Its voice, ever calling him to love and to do what is good and to avoid evil, sounds in his heart at the right moment. . . . For man has in his heart a law inscribed by God. . . . His conscience is man’s most secret core and his sanctuary. There he is alone with God whose voice echoes in his depths."47

I. The Judgment of Conscience

**1777 **
Moral conscience,48 present at the heart of the person, enjoins him at the appropriate moment to do good and to avoid evil. It also judges particular choices, approving those that are good and denouncing those that are evil.49 It bears witness to the authority of truth in reference to the supreme Good to which the human person is drawn, and it welcomes the commandments. When he listens to his conscience, the prudent man can hear God speaking. …

1794
A good and pure conscience is enlightened by true faith, for charity proceeds at the same time **“from a pure heart and a good conscience and sincere faith.”**60

The more a correct conscience prevails, the more do persons and groups turn aside from blind choice and try to be guided by objective standards of moral conduct.61

IN BRIEF

**1795 **
“Conscience is man’s most secret core, and his sanctuary. There he is alone with **God whose voice **echoes in his depths” (GS 16).
​

**1796 **
Conscience is a judgment of reason by which the human person recognizes the moral quality of a concrete act.

**1797 **
For the man who has committed evil, the verdict of his conscience remains a pledge of conversion and of hope.
**
1798 **
A well-formed conscience is upright and truthful. It formulates its judgments according to reason, in conformity with the true good willed by the wisdom of the Creator. Everyone must avail himself of the means to form his conscience.

**1799 **
Faced with a moral choice, conscience can make either a right judgment in accordance with reason and the divine law or, on the contrary, an erroneous judgment that departs from them.

**1800 **
A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience.

**1801 **
Conscience can remain in ignorance or make erroneous judgments. Such ignorance and errors are not always free of guilt.

1802 **
The ** Word of God :bible1: is a light for our path. We must assimilate it in faith and prayer and put it into practice. This is how moral conscience is formed.

:compcoff: Catechism Link usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect1chpt1art6.shtml

*Peace be with you . . . *

. . . all for Jesus+
. . . thank You Dear Lord+
. . . thank you Blessed Virgin Mary our Mother+
. . . thank you Holy Mother Church+
. . . Sacred Heart of Jesus+
. . . have mercy on us+​

 

[Rence]

As part of my job I have to work in a public hospital and in doing so I have to work on a birthing suite where one of the rooms is ‘dedicated’ to terminations/abortions. Should I be working on this ward? Does my work on this ward give support to the terminations that take place? Should I refuse to work there based on the services that they provide to women?

Thanks for your replies!

Blessings,

Patrick

In what capacity do you work there?

 

[Houro]

Thanks for the great replies everybody! They are really making me think.

Rence, I’m a midwife… a male midwife (have to claifiy that because others have just assumed the opposite in replies to my posts).

I wouldn’t be invloved in the abortions, I would only be invloved with the women that that come in to birth in the other rooms (10 rooms, 1 for abortions). The only problem is that I feel like I’m supporting the killing of these innocent children by just being there, acting as if everything is normal. Do you understand what I mean? How can I stand there and watch as a mother and child walk into a room and then watch as the mother walks out alone?

 

[Rence]

Thanks for the great replies everybody! They are really making me think.

Rence, I’m a midwife… a male midwife (have to claifiy that because others have just assumed the opposite in replies to my posts).

I wouldn’t be invloved in the abortions, I would only be invloved with the women that that come in to birth in the other rooms (10 rooms, 1 for abortions). The only problem is that I feel like I’m supporting the killing of these innocent children by just being there, acting as if everything is normal. Do you understand what I mean? How can I stand there and watch as a mother and child walk into a room and then watch as the mother walks out alone?

I understand what you mean, but you can’t change the world, you can only change your part of it. By being a supportive midwife, you can make a change in your part of the world. First of all, are you SURE you won’t get called in to a room to assist with an abortion? Even in an emergency situation? If you’re sure of that first, then are you able to counsel the women coming in for abortions? or is that forbidden by your job description or limitations? You can also pray for these women and their unborn. If you have the ability to make changes, I’d definitely stay and try to do just that. If you don’t, it’s up to you. You teach by example as well. Your coworkers will see your example. You in no way have to condone abortion by working there, as long as you make your objections and reasons for the objections known. I’d talk to a priest about it and see what he says.

I believe in rewarding the positive things people/companies do, and not rewarding the negative things they do. By focusing on the the good things they do, you can do your part there. On the opposite end, by your actions and words, you will make a difference in the negative aspect of that hospital rather than rewarding them like the positive side of the hospital’s services. Does that make sense?

 

[vera_dicere]

I kinda understand where you’re coming from. In NZL abortions are done, for the most part, in public hospitals. The abortion clinic at my last hospital job was on the floor above the ward I worked on, and there were occasions where patients who were scheduled for second trimester abortions (which require an over night stay usually) would end up on the ward I worked on.

If there is any chance, any chance whatsoever that you may be called on to perform or assist in an abortion, you have to make it clear to management. Only you can answer if you think this might happen where you are.

In NZL, while we have a conscience clause that allows us to not assist or perform abortions, we are required to assist in an emergency. From my position if that ever happened it’d probably be after teh child is dead, and at that point, I view helping the post abortive woman the same as if I’d be required to assist a murderer or paedophile who got shot escaping police or something.

Its a difficult road for Pro-Lifers in the health care profession, but one that can be managed.

I’d suggest you investigate the policy around terminations, down here’s there’s forms we need to fill out if we work on teh maternity or ante-natal wards where abortions may be done that excuse us - but not for an emergency. If you find that you may be called upon to assist in an abortion or even in an emergency where the foetus is still alive, then you may need to find another job.

As for whether its seen to be supporting aboriton by working there, I’d say yes and no. Working for a maternity ward in the capacity of a midwife would say you support life. But no, if like NZL, your hospital has a statement that “supports women to have access to safe termination of pregnancy services within condition of the law”.

In NZL all District Health Boards and even our Ministry of Health support access to safe abortions within the context of the law. You just can’t win. Especially since our tax dollars actually pay for those abortions. And if I worked private, I’d still be exposed to the possibility of having to assist in abortions or loose employment as private hospitals tend to be a mix and mash of different services.

 

[Jesus_123]

+This problem is such a complex and gravely serious one . . . I literally spent two plus years praying my way through and seeking holy wisdom re finding God’s holy pathway for me to follow in this maze of difficulty in the health care profession . . . there was a wonderful series of programs on the Eternal Word Television Network (EWTN) . . . featuring a priest who was also a doctor . . . which dealt with great wisdom and understanding in regard to the merciful healthcare profession’s calling . . . and the grave moral and ethical issues regarding same . . . which helped me enormously as I waded into the realities and difficulties of working within the health care industry as a servant of** God ** . . .

The Lord’s answer for my individual situation first was to reveal that our extraordinary public hospital . . . though at one time they allowed themselves to become involved in the tragedy of committing abortion killings . . .. . . **in a wonderful change of policy decision wholeheartedly embraced by their medical professionals ** . . . they discontinued the practice and removed themselves completely from involvement with same as a medical institution . . . and the **Lord solved this problem for my soul in another way that has worked very well in my case . . . and guided me to an agency with devout Christian headship here in town . . . through whom I have worked on several assignments at times over the years when there was a need . . . within the hospital . . . and this has worked quite well . . . the owner of the agency and I have become good friends . . . and she handles all negotiations with the hospital with full understanding . . . and full support . . . of where I am coming from as a Catholic Christian . . . however with the dreadful new Obama healthcare bill’s now legal invasion into the healthcare profession here in the United States . . . daily prayerful vigilance . . . depending utterly upon God’s grace and the holy Archangel :angel1: St. Michael’s **intercession and protection . . . re recognizing and taking care not to become involved with devastatingly immoral demands and activities . . . is a constant . . . and may I add . . . at times very trying and difficult. . . discipline of soul . . . *life and work in the merciful and greatly needed health care industry in this day and age . . . is certainly not easy . . . *

There was another thread dealing with this complex subject not too long back . . . perhaps that might help as you explore this situation . . . if you click on the . . . **little blue box with the white arrow inside **. . . next to the name Soutane you can bring up the entire thread of responses . . .

. . . :coffeeread: . . .

NY Nurse Forced to Help with Abortion Files Another Suit against Hospital

Alliance Defense Fund attorneys filed a lawsuit Friday against Mt. Sinai Hospital in New York state court, on behalf of a nurse forced to participate in a late-term abortion procedure under threat of disciplinary action, including possible termination and loss of her license.

The state suit was filed in addition to pro-life nurse Cathy Cenzon-DeCarlo’s federal lawsuit, which is on appeal, because her rights of conscience are also protected by New York law.

“Pro-life nurses shouldn’t be forced to assist in abortions against their beliefs,” said ADF Legal Counsel Matt Bowman. “It is illegal, unethical, and a violation of Cathy’s rights of conscience as a devout Catholic to require her to participate in terminating the life of a 22-week pre-born child.

"It was not only wrong, it was needless.”

lifesitenews.com/ldn/2010/apr/10043002.html

O God, incline unto mine aid.
O Lord, make haste to help me.
- Psalm 69:2
Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit,
as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be,
world without end.
Amen. Alleluia.
+

 

[elts1956]

As part of my job I have to work in a public hospital and in doing so I have to work on a birthing suite where one of the rooms is ‘dedicated’ to terminations/abortions. Should I be working on this ward? Does my work on this ward give support to the terminations that take place? Should I refuse to work there based on the services that they provide to women?

Thanks for your replies!

Blessings,

Patrick

Remote cooperation of an Intrinsic evil is a sin. How much of one and how remote is remote, I don’t know, but I couldn’t stomach such an environment.

 

[rwoehmke]

Your message was good, but difficult to follow with the rainbow printing effects. Colors like yellow offer so little contrast that older eyes really have to strain to decipher the word. Thanks.

 

[budgie2]

It sounds horrific that they have abortions in the same ward. It’s not in Britain, I hope? I don’t know but I think I’d look for a better hospital if the women can travel to a different hospital aswell, but there are pregnant women who also need support. Not if you are in anyway coerced into abortion.

 

[CPA2]

As part of my job I have to work in a public hospital and in doing so I have to work on a birthing suite where one of the rooms is ‘dedicated’ to terminations/abortions. Should I be working on this ward? Does my work on this ward give support to the terminations that take place? Should I refuse to work there based on the services that they provide to women?

Thanks for your replies!

Blessings,

Patrick

You need to be independent of the abortions in fact AND appearance. It sounds like you are, in fact, not helping in any way with the abortions. However, appearance is a little more tricky. How do others view your work in that ward? Do others think that you are helping with the abortions? Transfer to another ward if appearance is a problem, or transfer to another hospital.