Should July 4 be a Proper Solemnity for the United States?

[mythbuster1]

Already, the American holiday of Thanksgiving has been adopted by the Catholic Church as a Proper Solemnity. Given that freedom is an important theme of the Scriptures, including the responsibilities that come with it, I believe that Independence Day should also be adopted as a Proper Solemnity. Indeed, I think this is entirely fitting with what John Adams wrote in response to the adoption of the Declaration of Independence. What do you think?

 

[Canvas]

No. It is a purely national observance. The Catholic Church represents all people, not just Americans. Many nations have national observances of secular events alsongside religious observances.

 

[Cor_ad_Cor]

We already have too much blurring of nationalism and/or patriotism with religion in this country. The Church is wise to keep it from growing more entangled.

 

[Maximian]

freedom is an important theme of the Scriptures,

Rebellion against a lawful sovereign, however, is not, and the declaration issued to justify it is based on uncatholic ideas.

 

[FiveLinden]

Rebellion against a lawful sovereign, however, is not, and the declaration issued to justify it is based on uncatholic ideas

Did that sovereign have any right to impose his rule on the indigenous peoples of the Americas?

 

[Beryllos]

The people who declared independence were not an indigenous people of the Americas. They were colonial subjects.

 

[twf]

The rebels were, by and large, white Protestant men… who, after rebelling against their lawful king, turned around to oppress their black slaves, discriminate against Catholics and Jews, and oppress / seize land from the native peoples you just mentioned…
Not saying no good came of it or that there weren’t good intentions to go around… but regardless, I don’t see much justification for celebrating this event as a liturgical solemnity.

 

[Mythicalbio]

The complaints listed in the declaration don’t justify rebellion and murdering imo. It was not a just rebellion, and yes that means our nation which I pray for and love was ill-born. Not to be celebrated in Church.

Long live the Queen I guess.

 

[twf]

If it’s any consolation, I was conceived (though not born) out of wedlock… and I think I’m just great I think an American can say the rebellion was immoral yet still love his or her country.

 

[Mythicalbio]

I was also, and I love myself. Tbh, no matter the circumstances of said rebellion, I still would prefer to be here than elsewhere. I wouldn’t mind if we joined the commonwealth though.

 

[MNathaniel]

Um.

I’ll say “no”.

First googled summary of ‘solemnity’ that I found:

“In the liturgical calendar of the Roman Rite, a solemnity is a feast day of the highest rank celebrating a mystery of faith such as the Trinity, an event in the life of Jesus, his mother Mary, or another important saint.”

Which of these do you propose America’s ‘Independence Day’ falls under?

PS its news to me that Thanksgiving is considered a solemnity in the USA. I didn’t know that previously.

 

[AlbMagno]

At least the rebel Calvinists freed you from a cesaropapist Monarchy such as the English one, and drafted a Constitution that let the Church act very freely.

Here in South America we had it backwards: we where part of the largest Catholic empire, but the Freemasons came in and transformed us into laicist republics during the napoleonic confusion.

 

[FiveLinden]

The people who declared independence were not an indigenous people of the Americas. They were colonial subjects.

Quite right. But the King to whom they were subject has extended his power over the indigenous people.

 

[twf]

I would consider George III a “caesaropapist” monarch… Henry VIII and Elizabeth I, perhaps, but that was a couple centuries earlier. By the time of the American revolution, Parliament had already established its supremacy… the Ministers ruled the Empire…the king’s actual power was limited.

 

[puer.dei]

Already, the American holiday of Thanksgiving has been adopted by the Catholic Church as a Proper Solemnity.

Who told you that? It is no such thing.
This year, Thanksgiving (Nov. 26) will be Thursday of the 34th week of Ordinary Time. There is a Mass option, but it’s an Optional Memorial, and for the Dioceses of the United States only – way down the scale from a Solemnity. There is also an Optional Memorial option for Mass on July 4, so it’s at exactly the same level.

I believe that Independence Day should also be adopted as a Proper Solemnity

Well, there is no “also,” since Thanksgiving isn’t a Solemnity.
Which of the conditions for being a Solemnity are you saying this would qualify under?

 

[paperwight]

I would consider George III a “caesaropapist” monarch…

I think you probably meant ‘wouldn’t’.

 

[ioannes_pius]

Greetings from a fellow Canadian patriot! :canada:

God save the Queen!

 

[Cruciferi]

Already, the American holiday of Thanksgiving has been adopted by the Catholic Church as a Proper Solemnity.

I’ve lived in the United States my whole life. Never have I heard this. Cite your source and provide a working link.

I believe that Independence Day should also be adopted as a Proper Solemnity.

No​

I don’t see much justification for celebrating this event as a liturgical solemnity.

No, but I’ll still be outside grilling burgers and being a proud American

The complaints listed in the declaration don’t justify rebellion and murdering imo. It was not a just rebellion, and yes that means our nation which I pray for and love was ill-born.

Concerning the United States:

“When therefore they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said to them: He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.”

No country is sinless and every human endeavor is riddled with imperfection. Could the Revolution have been handled better? Sure, in an ideal world, both parties could sit down and calmly discuss the issues and negotiate a fair resolution. But, as we’re seeing today, that still doesn’t happen.

 

[OraLabora]

If it’s any consolation, I was conceived (though not born) out of wedlock…

I was conceived and born out of wedlock, and given up for adoption soon after. I consider not only that I’m OK, but my biological mother too is OK for doing the right thing (she was 18 at the time).

 

[mythbuster1]

I stand corrected. I was given the impression Thanksgiving was a Solemnity because I have always seen its propers used in place of the daily Mass propers, and I have even seen it anticipated to the previous evening.