Should Latin mass be brought back?

[Don_Ruggero]

“If truly serious difficulties come to light…”

And it is those whose opinions are sought by the Holy See, in response to the Holy See’s requests who get to decide what are truly serious difficulties – and explain why they are so. And the Holy See decides the matter from there…and promulgates their decisions to the lay faithful.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

I leave that to the Moderator to decide if there is or is not an issue. They are quite capable.

 

[R_H_Benson]

I also think the time has come to begin the alterations of the 1962 missal, as Pope Benedict said needed to happen.

The collect for Paul VI will sure be interesting.

 

[Walking_Home]

Now here is an FSSP priest – that served where he was/is needed. His bishop needed him to celebrate Mass for those 3 churches. Note – the Mass is the OF.

PacoG:

There is an FSSP priest in the Hospital Ministry of our Diocese.

He has “weekend duty” at a local parish and its two rural mission churches. He says the OF Mass at those three churches.

The FSSP and the OF - #9 by PacoG

 

[R_H_Benson]

Although there are instances of FSSP priests offering the New Mass, it is very rare as the vast majority of Fraternity priests do not even know how to offer it. They have zero training in the rubrics of the New Mass. It simply isn’t part of their charisma. There are, however, several Fraternity priests who were incorporated into the FSSP after their ordinations and have previous knowledge and experience with offering the New Mass. Even these, however, are discouraged from offering the New Mass, because, again, it is not part of the charism. Fraternity priests are trained and dedicated to the rites of the Church as they stood in 1962.

 

[commenter]

There are 0 Gilbertines and have been since the 16th century.

I realize vocations have been kind of slow lately for the Gilbertines.

The cause for Gilbert Keith Chesterton is in the process of being introduced towards possible canonization. If this goes forward, I see a new religious order arising, combining wit, orthodoxy, and love for God and neighbor. The Gilbertines!

 

[Walking_Home]

While the OF may not be part of his charisma – he is a priest that served the faithful in the parishes where he was needed.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Hey – it’s a traditionalist speaking about his past and current priest.

My advice, @Walking_Home is to take in this experience and draw profit from it. You will certainly see more. The “traditionalists” express themselves…and the bishops and priests who have ears to hear are able to understand. This thread is certainly reflective of what I have seen repeat itself across many many years, in various countries.

As I have said, the attitude and mindset among the “traditionalists” is 180 degrees from the attitude and mindset of those…who are now in the Ordinariates of that group we have known first as The Pastoral Provision and then The Anglican Use.

 

[R_H_Benson]

This thread is certainly reflective of what I have seen repeat itself across many many years, in various countries.

Why do you think this is, Father? Could such attitudes possible arise from the consistent marginalization and unfair treatment of traditionalists by bishops who wish the “pesky Old Mass” would just go away? Can you blame people for being upset that they had to go to Mass in a cemetery chapel at 4:30 PM Sunday afternoon for 30 years?

 

[Indyann]

A couple of years ago, I wanted to go to confession before Christmas. I knew there would be no more scheduled confessions in any of the parish churches. So I went to the “FSSP parish” because I knew that I would be able to go to confession, before or during
Mass. There were two priests at the parish at that time, one who said the OF exclusively. And the FSSP priest who said BOTH. It seems they shared the facilities and the FSSP priest said Mass in the OF when the other priest was not available.

 

[R_H_Benson]

So I went to the “FSSP parish” because I knew that I would be able to go to confession, before or during Mass.

Wonderful! Yes! Whenever you need to go to confession outside of 4:30-4:45 pm on Saturday afternoons, the FSSP parish is the place to turn. Most have confessions daily. Those priests spend so much time in the confessional, it is truly inspiring.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Although there are instances of FSSP priests offering the New Mass, it is very rare as the vast majority of Fraternity priests do not even know how to offer it. They have zero training in the rubrics of the New Mass. It simply isn’t part of their charisma. There are, however, several Fraternity priests who were incorporated into the FSSP after their ordinations and have previous knowledge and experience with offering the New Mass. Even these, however, are discouraged from offering the New Mass, because, again, it is not part of the charism. Fraternity priests are trained and dedicated to the rites of the Church as they stood in 1962.

That, of course, needs to change. In the re-assessment, Pope Benedict’s following determination needs to be imposed upon the Ecclesia Dei Communities, as a matter of necessity.

There are many liturgists who will be glad to give them formation in post-Conciliar liturgy. It can be done as a series of mandatory workshops.

Needless to say, in order to experience full communion, the priests of the communities adhering to the former usage cannot, as a matter of principle, exclude celebrating according to the new books. The total exclusion of the new rite would not in fact be consistent with the recognition of its value and holiness.

 

[commenter]

Why do you think this is, Father? Could such attitudes possible arise from the marginalization and unfair treatment of traditionalists by bishops who wish the pesky Old Mass would just go away?

I visit the EF community for Mass sometimes, and deeply admire their commitment both to liturgy and to orthodox Catholic doctrine and practice. They are among the strongest supporters of prolife. But I have to admit they come across as a little “edgy”, a little too quick to criticize the bishop and indirectly, the pope. For instance, at a recent conference a speaker refused to concede there now are 20 decades in the Rosary. They tend to regard everything coming from the Vatican as questionable.

If the group Don Ruggero ministered to with the EF was like this, I can kind of understand his frustration. I realize they feel they were ridiculed and disrespected by the diocese for many years, none of which they have forgotten, let alone forgiven. Their anger is perhaps justified. But their hyper-defensive stance makes it hard to attract others to their position, who might be sympathetic. As I am.

 

[R_H_Benson]

There are many liturgists who will be glad to give them formation in post-Conciliar liturgy.

Oh, Father, trust me. I KNOW there are.

 

[Walking_Home]

A couple of years ago, I wanted to go to confession before Christmas. I knew there would be no more scheduled confessions in any of the parish churches. So I went to the “FSSP parish” because I knew that I would be able to go to confession, before or during
Mass. There were two priests at the parish at that time, one who said the OF exclusively. And the FSSP priest who said BOTH. It seems they shared the facilities and the FSSP priest said Mass in the OF when the other priest was not available.

Good to know other FSSP priest(s) serve where needed.

 

[Indyann]

Well, I am not a proponent of going to confession during Mass, so I got there early enough to be finished before Mass began.
One time I was there and people were going to Confession during the Consecration. I know,

because I was sitting in the back where the confessional was, because I was wearing pants and was kind of hiding.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Why do you think this is, Father? Could such attitudes possible arise from the consistent marginalization and unfair treatment of traditionalists by bishops who wish the “pesky Old Mass” would just go away? Can you blame people for being upset that they had to go to Mass in a cemetery chapel at 4:30 PM Sunday afternoon for 30 years?

Why? There is a 3200 character limit. A book could easily be written to explain how the traditionalists have been the cause of their own miasma.

 

[commenter]

Although there are instances of FSSP priests offering the New Mass, it is very rare as the vast majority of Fraternity priests do not even know how to offer it. They have zero training in the rubrics of the New Mass. It simply isn’t part of their charisma. There are, however, several Fraternity priests who were incorporated into the FSSP after their ordinations and have previous knowledge and experience with offering the New Mass. Even these, however, are discouraged from offering the New Mass, because, again, it is not part of the charism. Fraternity priests are trained and dedicated to the rites of the Church as they stood in 1962.

One way to attract people to the EF is to show people that FSSP priests are fully capable offering a reverent Mass in OF, which the people are familiar with. People can build confidence in priests when priests start where the people are at. Some will eventually try out the EF Mass offered, not by some stranger but by someone familiar.

 

[R_H_Benson]

Why? There is a 3200 character limit. A book could easily be written to explain how the traditionalists have been the cause of their own miasma.

Books HAVE been written explaining precisely the opposite.

 

[Walking_Home]

R_H_Benson:

Why do you think this is, Father? Could such attitudes possible arise from the consistent marginalization and unfair treatment of traditionalists by bishops who wish the “pesky Old Mass” would just go away? Can you blame people for being upset that they had to go to Mass in a cemetery chapel at 4:30 PM Sunday afternoon for 30 years?

Why? There is a 3200 character limit. A book could easily be written to explain how the traditionalists have been the cause of their own miasma.

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I’d say it’s writing itself. The words are spread — across the various traditionalist sites/blogs/etc. And more is added – with each passing year.