Should My Teen Sons Volunteer At A Fundy Vbs?

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Participating in an activity at a protestant church can sometimes be tricky for an adult Catholic (unless they understand their own Catholic faith well), so I would say if they were my children, unless I was there as well, then I would not do it.

Tamara
 
I have a similiar, but different experience with my eldest son who is 16. Due to circumstances beyond his control, he has not been properly cathechized in the Faith, and as a result, began to attend a Church of the Nazarene youth bible study group due to the encouragement of his best friend. Because at the time I, also, was pondering on attending a non-catholic (Fundamentalist) church (I’m a cradle Catholic), and was also not very well-cathechized myself, I figured, like so many do, “Any religion is better than no religion.”

The Holy Spirit must have been working in my life, for I soon abandoned the idea of attending the non-catholic church (which many of my closests friends still attend) and dove right back into my Catholic faith. My son has noticed a change in my practices, an although he recieved his first three sacraments in the Church, began to ask me questions about mine. I asked him why he continued going to the Church of the Nazarene youth group, and he told me because he liked the friendliness of the church. This gave me a chance to pass on the knowledge that I know to be true about the Catholic Church…and he admitted to me that he had no intentions of converting out of the Catholic faith.

We’re both still a work in progress. I’m hoping to get him back on the road to Confirmation (along with my other teenage son), and we’ve all be attending Mass on a weekly basis. I know he’s still searching for truth, and I’m hoping (tho not pushing) that he continues to turn to the Church to answer those questions. He is no longer attending the Church of the Nazarene youth group - I hope he decides to get involved in our own parish youth activities.

My son’s story, I realize, is the shaky exception. If your sons are sure of their Faith, and continue with their own education of the Catholic Church, then I would cautiously allow them to volunteer. But make sure you are there for back-up, in case the lines start getting fuzzy.

Peace in Christ,
Tonks40

:blessyou: :blessyou:
 
Sparkle,

If your boys are very solidly grounded in the faith and can defend the Church from the anti-Catholicism that unfortunately pervades much of Calvary Chapel, then I would say go for it, as it might result in a good evangelization experience for them. If they aren’t, and you aren’t, then spend your energy instead in setting up a VBS in your own parish. Alan speaks of the value of “diversity”, but then he’s not orthodox and so such advice perhaps falls more easily from his pen than it would from others.

Even if your kids don’t subscribe to any non-Catholic ideas that may or may not be floated, there is the very real danger of religious indifferentism being promoted by such actions. In other words, in sending your kids there you may be promoting the message, incompatible with Catholicism in particular but also Christianity in general, that it’s all the same thing—merely different roads to some vague shared goal. Why would you want to do that? In short—if your kids are firm and fast in their faith, then this experience becomes an evangelizing opportunity. If not, then fer heaven’s sake use your energy and start a VBS in your parish.
 
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thessalonian:
EA you can’t tell me your ditto doesn’t have in mind making protestants out of them in the end. After all the doctrinal differences are minor and it doesn’t matter to you if one is Catholic or not. We are just debating the finer points that don’t really matter here, right?

I’ve got some swamp, I mean land for ya in floriday.
Yeah, EA_man. As Ryan pointed out, they may underline the wrong parts of their Bible. That could be problematic, because some parts of the Bible aren’t meant to be underlined but apologized for.

We wouldn’t want to expose them to opportunities to practice apologetics while they are still at home, do we? Or do we intend for them to join an order and not ever have to deal with Protestants or work with them on any charitable ventures? Or do we think it is best to keep their blinders on until the get away from home and then whoopie! See how they do when they are all alone in the world amid Protestants, totally oblivious to what they think of Catholicism and let the more fervent Bible-thumper win.

Alan
 
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AlanFromWichita:
Yeah, EA_man. As Ryan pointed out, they may underline the wrong parts of their Bible. That could be problematic, because some parts of the Bible aren’t meant to be underlined but apologized for.

We wouldn’t want to expose them to opportunities to practice apologetics while they are still at home, do we? Or do we intend for them to join an order and not ever have to deal with Protestants or work with them on any charitable ventures? Or do we think it is best to keep their blinders on until the get away from home and then whoopie! See how they do when they are all alone in the world amid Protestants, totally oblivious to what they think of Catholicism and let the more fervent Bible-thumper win.

Alan
The problem is that these teens are going to be volunteering to help out at a non-Catholic VBS. Being run by Calvary Chapel, the bible school is not going to be teaching what the Catholic Church teaches. Are the teens supposed to be disruptive and start arguing/debating with the other staff during the course of the shool? This is not the right time, place or way to do apologetics. How would you like it if a Reformed Baptist volunteered at your parish to teach religious education or help out in the classes and during the class started defending their faith? Again, it’s not the right time or place to do such a thing.

If the teens are only there to learn what is being taught…well that seems problematic as well. I don’t know what age the classes are for but if the classes touch on “faith alone”, “bible alone”, or any one of a dozen other topics that Calvary Chapel is in disagreement with the Catholic Church on, what are the teens to do? It would not be appropriate to start debating the instructors at this time since the teens are volunteering to assist at the shool. If the teens don’t say anything at all, it is likely that the staff of the shool will take this as acceptance of their teaching.

Also, there is a strong possibility that the staff of the Bible School will be very aggressive in “evangelizing” the teens. Why put them in such a place? They can learn apologetics, if that’s what they are interested in, from many other resources without being in a potentially hostile evironment that could endanger their faith. In fact, if they are teens, maybe they should spend the time in intensive study learning their own faith before venturing into such a potentially hostile environment to do apologetics.

Just my two cents.
 
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bigdawg:
The problem is that these teens are going to be volunteering to help out at a non-Catholic VBS. Being run by Calvary Chapel, the bible school is not going to be teaching what the Catholic Church teaches. Are the teens supposed to be disruptive and start arguing/debating with the other staff during the course of the shool? This is not the right time, place or way to do apologetics. How would you like it if a Reformed Baptist volunteered at your parish to teach religious education or help out in the classes and during the class started defending their faith? Again, it’s not the right time or place to do such a thing.
Speaking for my own children, they are not that stupid. They know how to obey orders without taking it upon themselves to Fix The World and their superiors.

I have allowed them to be exposed to people from other faiths, so I am not concerned that if they go to another Church they will make nuisances of themselves or disrupt the other people’s plans. Being a Catholic through high school has afforded them ample opportunity to know how to Keep Their Personal Opinion to Themselves when it is prudent. They have helped when they didn’t have to with many people in many situations and of many beliefs, and never have I heard anything – directly or indirectly – except high praises for them.

You have to figure I give them a pretty hard time and challenge their behavior, their thoughts, and even their feelings. If they can put up with a psycho like me and still love me and obey me and be acclaimed by all who know them (and even people who just met them) as precious and brilliant and talented and friendly and helpful, then I figure that in my own mind, at least, I can speak with some authority on raising children. As my last pastor put it, the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. :love:

I believe that the overwhelming majority of high school student know how to play the game without causing disputes better than their parents would even believe. If they are in a Catholic school, you can be assured they have some skills at Looking Right and Stifling Your Own Opinion.

If we are dealing with children that immature they haven’t learned yet how to conceal their personal opinions when prudent then they have been sheltered and they will have quite a culture shock when they get out and have to deal with people who not only disagree with them, but wield worldly power over them.

Important: Get them out of the closet and into the world while they are still living at home. Trust me, as a socially naive, sheltered Catholic myself I suggest you DO NOT want their first experience with radically new points of view to be when they are away at college and out of your sight.

Repeat: Get them out of the closet and into the world while they are still living at home.
If the teens don’t say anything at all, it is likely that the staff of the shool will take this as acceptance of their teaching.
If they don’t say anything at all against the faith of their hosts, then it shows they had an upbringing that included Good Manners. Maybe since manners are so rare in adults these days they mistake not being a jerk for being Fully Mental Assenting.

That could also explain why Fully Mental Assenting people are so adamant about forcing everybody else to agree with what they say is what the Church says about the Truth.
Also, there is a strong possibility that the staff of the Bible School will be very aggressive in “evangelizing” the teens. Why put them in such a place? They can learn apologetics, if that’s what they are interested in, from many other resources without being in a potentially hostile evironment that could endanger their faith. In fact, if they are teens, maybe they should spend the time in intensive study learning their own faith before venturing into such a potentially hostile environment to do apologetics.
You are right that they might try to evangelize, but I suspect those they will be in close contact with are more directly interested in the smooth execution of their vbs.

If your teenager does not know enough about Catholicism by the time they are teens, to help discern the complex truths the other faith will be using them to teach little children, then you are seriously behind the curve and maybe a little different spice in their faith lives might zap it up a bit.

Would you refuse to let your teenager babysit for a family who attended this Church, using all the same arguments as have been in this thread? If your teenager gets a paying job at a place which has non-Catholics do these dangers still apply? What if they were offered a paying job to help them out?

It seems like we are afraid of Protestants or something. What do we have to worry about? If we walk in the truth then let’s learn how to discern the truth because unless we stay locked in a closet, we are going to be getting mixed bag of truth and lies our whole lives.

Alan
 
Alan,

I read your post and though you make some good points, I still disagree. I don’t see the point in assisting at a non-Catholic Bible School…I see no positives and several negatives.
 
I would say no. First of all, if its a Bible school, your sons are going to be getting a daily dose of fundy theology probably with a fair amount of subtle Catholic bashing. Is that what you want? I don’t think so.

No. There are plenty of ways to help out in the Catholic church. Maybe you can explore those possibilities. I’ll bet your church bulletin has at least a few volunteer opportunites. If not through your church, check with your archdiocese.

Peace.
 
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AlanFromWichita:
Yeah, EA_man. As Ryan pointed out, they may underline the wrong parts of their Bible. That could be problematic, because some parts of the Bible aren’t meant to be underlined but apologized for.

We wouldn’t want to expose them to opportunities to practice apologetics while they are still at home, do we? Or do we intend for them to join an order and not ever have to deal with Protestants or work with them on any charitable ventures? Or do we think it is best to keep their blinders on until the get away from home and then whoopie! See how they do when they are all alone in the world amid Protestants, totally oblivious to what they think of Catholicism and let the more fervent Bible-thumper win.

Alan
Alan, I find you to be a fool. You ridicule with straw men and misrepresentations of what I would say. But I find little use in wasting my time responding to such fools who won’t listen anyway.
 
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marvin:
I would say no. First of all, if its a Bible school, your sons are going to be getting a daily dose of fundy theology probably with a fair amount of subtle Catholic bashing. Is that what you want? I don’t think so.
Hi Marvin:

Thx for your reply. But I tend to disagree with the above. This is not always the case, matter of fact, since I’ve always been a Prot. except for the past few months (new Catholic as of Easter:D ) and since I’ve always put my children in VBS, I would like you and others to know that I have never once at a VBS come across any anti-Catholic anything. At VBS’, they teach the basics. Why would they teach kids “call no man father” at a VBS? Ridiculous! Last year I enrolled my young son in the Presbyterian Church VBS, where we have gone for the past 5 years together as a family (before my conversion of course)–and what my son learned and made a beautiful little craft of was The Fruits of the Spirit. Gentleness, Patience, Love, Joy, Peace, Self-Control, etc. I still have it hanging in my bathroom, it’s so beautiful. Is this anti-Catholic?

I can see the very good point from whomever mentioned it, a quote by the Pope that ignorance is better than being taught false truth, but honestly, I do not think this is the case for VBS. Now I’m not saying to feast tri-weekly on this church, absorbing it’s philosophy, etc., but I really feel VBS is perfectly fine. It’s 3 hours a day. Kids learn the basics of our Christian Faith like the Fruits of the Spirit, etc., Praise God for this!

I decided contrary to alot of you guys here to let my teen sons help out this year. I really do think for them to learn to “serve” etc., is such a much-needed thing. And yes, I will take the advice that next year, I will start one in my parish!

Thx for your help all of you!!!
In Christ~~
 
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AlanFromWichita:
.

Would you refuse to let your teenager babysit for a family who attended this Church, using all the same arguments as have been in this thread? If your teenager gets a paying job at a place which has non-Catholics do these dangers still apply? What if they were offered a paying job to help them out?

It seems like we are afraid of Protestants or something. What do we have to worry about? If we walk in the truth then let’s learn how to discern the truth because unless we stay locked in a closet, we are going to be getting mixed bag of truth and lies our whole lives.

Alan
No. There is a very big difference between babysitting for someone of another denomination, and attending this sort of event run by a well-known anti-catholic denomination.

From what I know of Calvary chapel, they are very anti-catholic, and see one of their main tasks as trying to get people out of the Catholic Church and to poison them against it. events such as this are major “bait” in that task.

Strong pressure is usually be put on the children attending such gatherings to “get saved”, come forward and renounce their former beliefs. They will specifically be taught non-catholic and even anti-catholic interpretations of scripture.

If the body had been a mainstream church like the Anglicans or Methodists, things would not be so bad. Since these churches usually respect the Faith of Catholics and seek to share what unites them. But sending a child who is not VERY well-grounded and firm in the faith to a group like Calvary Chapel - or any other fundamentalist group of similar nature, is asking for trouble.
 
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sparkle:
At VBS’, they teach the basics. Why would they teach kids “call no man father” at a VBS? Ridiculous! Last year I enrolled my young son in the Presbyterian Church VBS, where we have gone for the past 5 years together as a family (before my conversion of course)–and what my son learned and made a beautiful little craft of was The Fruits of the Spirit. Gentleness, Patience, Love, Joy, Peace, Self-Control, etc. I still have it hanging in my bathroom, it’s so beautiful. Is this anti-Catholic?
It depends on the denomination, as I said in my earlier post. Groups like Calvary Chapel are NOT mainstream churches, and are far more anti-catholic.
 
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Axion:
It depends on the denomination, as I said in my earlier post. Groups like Calvary Chapel are NOT mainstream churches, and are far more anti-catholic.
My wife was fed all kinds of anti-catholic nonsense as a child, both at home and at her CCD classes. You are nieve Sparkle. Also you would do well to read Dominus Iesus written by JPII.
 
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thessalonian:
My wife was fed all kinds of anti-catholic nonsense as a child, both at home and at her CCD classes. You are nieve Sparkle. Also you would do well to read Dominus Iesus written by JPII.
Maybe I still am thessalonian. That’s why I’m here. Need to learn more from you wise ones. Perhaps you are so right here. I will look into it much further. Perhaps I’m not just not there yet, enough to know the reality of it. Thx for providing this encyclical by PJPII. Do you know the exact website? I’m such a computer dummy. Already signed them up to help this year though. But I’ll definately be aware of everything. Believe me, my feathers are up and ready!!!

God Bless~~
 
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Axion:
It depends on the denomination, as I said in my earlier post. Groups like Calvary Chapel are NOT mainstream churches, and are far more anti-catholic.
They are? Thx for letting me know!

We go on Wed. nite still to a Bible Study–one son plays the drums, hubby (still a Prot) likes it. I’m at a quandry to know what to do, as a new convert. I feel it’s fair game as they go with me to Mass, so I go with them here. :confused: It is hard being the only Catholic!
 
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sparkle:
Maybe I still am thessalonian. That’s why I’m here. Need to learn more from you wise ones. Perhaps you are so right here. I will look into it much further. Perhaps I’m not just not there yet, enough to know the reality of it. Thx for providing this encyclical by PJPII. Do you know the exact website? I’m such a computer dummy. Already signed them up to help this year though. But I’ll definately be aware of everything. Believe me, my feathers are up and ready!!!

God Bless~~
I appreciate your humilty. There is much to learn in Catholicism. In fact you will never stop learning. Here is a link to the document.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html

It deals with a proper attitude toward other faiths and their teachings. That is why I suggested it. We are not all equal. That does not mean they are all bad and that is not my point in this thread.
 
When our parish first did VBS, there was no Catholic program available. Our DRE had to purchase the cirriculum and go through it and edit out all of the “wrong” stuff. Not that it was over-the-top anti Catholic, it just was subtle Sola Scriptura, etc.

Check your diocise, unless you are in the sticks - there are Catholic youth/child programs around.
 
Sparkle,

I really don’t know what to say. Its not ridiculous to assume that the theology taught at fundy Bible camp and Catholic Bible camp are going to be different. Protestants by definition are anti-Catholic or else they’d be Catholic.

It seems like you completely blew off my other suggestions about helping out the Catholic church. There is much volunteer work to be done within our own house.

That said, you’re the parent. You are ultimatley responsible for them.

Peace.
 
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