Should our faith affect how we feel?

[AquinaSavio]

No, that’s not why “more emotional” people leave the Catholic Church. They leave because they never plumbed the depths of their Catholic faith to find the rich, lasting treasures to be found in it. People who are looking for “something” and don’t look first into their own faith are to be pitied not envied. After 20 years of plumbing the depths of Evangelicalism I can tell you there’s not much there. It becomes truly repetitious and tiring. You are deceived by the simplicity of the Mass (which is corporate worship not a “Jesus and me” fest).

I agree…people simply don’t understand the immense value of the Mass. I am included in this. I will admit that I don’t understand what is happening during the Mass. It is a constant journey to come to a deeper understanding of God and His gifts.

I believe that emotions will follow when a person really does understand what God is doing for us. I’ve seen a priest actually cry when talking about God, or during the consecration. So, I don’t think the Mass excludes the emotional.

 

[Maureen_Fiore]

I think that our faith should be a personal experience. I don’t care to express myself in regards to my faith. I go to mass and I listen to the Gospel and feed off of this by listening to the Homily. I take what I hear in church and try to live according to the teachings for that week. I don’t know if that is considered a feeling, but I need to be fed spiritually every week that is why I go to mass.

 

[MariaG]

That’s why I’m not even going to THINK of looking at the thread on “do you wear jeans to church”. . .

That thread caught my eye and my immediate thought was, “Don’t go there!” It will get closed eventually I am sure.

God bless,
Maria

 

[Sailboat]

http://home.comcast.net/~scottwwaddell/pics/factfaithcaboose.bmp

I went to a retreat in which many of the charismatic-Catholic types were present. This was not a bad thing in general, but occasionally some of them would play something like Spiritual Simon-Sez. That is, we would have a spontaneous prayer circle and one girl blurted out how she felt the Spirit telling all the men in the room to kneel. I was sorely tempted to say I felt the spirit telling me to go over and give her a swift kick in the rear, but what can you do? And that is the problem, feelings quickly become an imposition on others and there is the sense that if others don’t jump on board something is wrong. It’s Love Thy Neighbor, not Disturb Thy Neighbor.

Ha ha, I don’t think I’d enjoy a prayer meeting like that. You’re right, that’s the problem with too much emotion, especially when people use it manipulatively like that, to boss around others. I think that happens in Protestant churches with a manipulative pastor whose has people convinced that he has a special line to the Holy Spirit. I’ll never forget when Oral Roberts told everyone that God told him if he didn’t get $1,000,000 for his university, that God would strick him down. So he publicized that and got his money from alot of gullible people who looked up to him.

 

[Pug]

Are you honestly saying that an instruction from Jesus doesn’t matter because it’s only one verse? I can’t recall anywhere that the Bible instructs people to do alot of good works in front of others so that they’ll know you’re bearing fruit or anything like that.

I don’t wish to argue about verses, but I do wish to say that there are many verses and each must be understood together. Here is a verse that OP may be wondering about how it fits in:

15 Nor do they light a lamp and then put it under a bushel basket; it is set on a lampstand, where it gives light to all in the house. 16 Just so, your light must shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your heavenly Father.

 

[Sailboat]

Are you honestly saying that an instruction from Jesus doesn’t matter because it’s only one verse? I can’t recall anywhere that the Bible instructs people to do alot of good works in front of others so that they’ll know you’re bearing fruit or anything like that. Doing good works and doing them in front of others are two very different things.

And for your information, since I have decided to join the Catholic Church I have felt more alive in my faith than ever before. I have talked about it with people more. I’ve felt more charitable than ever before. My faith is stronger now than it ever was during my years as a protestant, even when I went on 3 very visible mission trips. I have Catholicism to thank for it.

That’s great Verita. I never said the Bible instructs us to show off our good works, but it does mention fruits of the spirit will be manifest.

It sounds as if you get alot of good feelings from the Catholic faith. Of course I’ve heard people say that who leave the faith for a lively community church too, saying exactly what you are saying. So, obviously fuzzy feelings isn’t a sign of anything. I wonder how we discern which feelings are valid, or are feeling just morally neutral like some people say?

 

[MariaG]

Ha ha, I don’t think I’d enjoy a prayer meeting like that. You’re right, that’s the problem with too much emotion, especially when people use it manipulatively like that, to boss around others. I think that happens in Protestant churches with a manipulative pastor whose has people convinced that he has a special line to the Holy Spirit. I’ll never forget when Oral Roberts told everyone that God told him if he didn’t get $1,000,000 for his university, that God would strick him down. So he publicized that and got his money from alot of gullible people who looked up to him.

On the other hand the story of the women who told everyone that God felt the men all needed to kneel brought up to my mind an incident that happened to me in an Assembly of God Church.

It was a Wednesday service/bible study on the Rapture. Person after person started in on how they could not wait and they were praying for His swift return. I sat there and got more and more angry. When I get really angry, I start to cry. I started to cry. I was shaking I was getting so mad.

Finally, I spoke out and said, crying and shaking as I said it, “If you truly believe in all we have been talking about will happen, you need to stop praying for Christ’s swift return and start praying for your mother’s and father’s and brother,s and sister,s and neighbor’s salvation.”

The pastor said, “This is a manifestation of the Holy Spirit speaking. Let us all pray now.”

I still get angry at the attitude of those in the Church when they were talking about the rapture and how they could not wait. Seemed to have no compassion for those who would be lost at all.

That said, I do think it was inappropriate for a woman to tell men what to do in that manner and although I could not be sure, I would sincerely doubt that it was a leading from the Holy Spirit telling her this. All the men needed to kneel but not the women?

Ah well, I wasn’t there and maybe indeed, this woman was truly led by the Holy Spirit to say that.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[Mickey]

I don’t wish to argue about verses, but I do wish to say that there are many verses and each must be understood together. Here is a verse that OP may be wondering about how it fits in:

The verses together point to the passion of pride. We should bear good fruit under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. But this fruit is worthless if it is done so that the world might praise you. It must be done to glorify God.

I see this as similar to the pharisees fasting for all to see, so that the world may know how “holy” they are.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Alot of Protestants seem more on fire for the Lord than Catholics. The people at my church mostly appear to be going through the motions and not enthusiastic. The Evangelicals I know are more enthusiastic. Sometimes I feel a little jealous of them and how their church communities seem more alive. Alot of Catholics seem to be just fullfilling their Mass duty then out the door.

Don’t confuse emotionalism, which is a big part of evangelical services, with faith.

Often what you are seeing at an evangelical service is, people caught up in the frenzy of the music and atmospher. It’s not much different than those attending a rock concert.

St. Teresa of Avila said something to the effect of, God speaks to us best, within the silent depths of our being.
It’s where the language of God is understood.

 

[Sailboat]

Originally Posted by Mat5 my bold
15 Nor do they light a lamp and then put it under a bushel basket; it is set on a lampstand, where it gives light to all in the house. 16 Just so, your light must shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your heavenly Father.

Thanks Pug for a good example. Yes, you cannot take one verse from the Bible like that just to prove a point you want to prove. That’s what the Protestants do with their Born Again theory, which is based on one verse, out of context. That’s why the Church has scholars who understand the Bible in context interpert it for us.

 

[Church_Militant]

From Campus Crusade for Christ’s Four Spiritual Laws.

An important reminder…

Do not depend on feelings

The promise of God’s Word, the Bible - not our feelings - is our authority. The Christian lives by faith (trust) in the trustworthiness of God Himself and His Word. This train diagram illustrates the relationship among fact (God and His Word), faith (our trust in God and His Word), and feeling (the result of our faith and obedience) (John 14:21)
http://www.greatcom.org/english/images/train.gif

The train will run with or without a caboose. However, it would be useless to attempt to pull the train by the caboose. In the same way, as Christians we do not depend on feelings or emotions, but we place our faith (trust) in the trustworthiness of God and the promises of His Word.Not bad advice nor analogy…
Emotionalism is characteristic of Evangelicalism & many other n-C churches. I don’t have a problem with things like this in my parish, for a couple of reasons.

1. I’m usually too wrapped up in the “full, conscious, active, and joyful participation” of the Mass to concern myself with what others are doing. Especially since I cannot really know what the condition fo their heart and soul is.
2. Emotions very often get in the way of real faith. The fact is that how I “feel” at any given point, is actually pretty much irrelevent to my status with God. I like what Chuin the old Korean assassin told Remo Williams in the movie. “You “feel” cold. You “feel” afraid. You “feel” hungry, but these things mean nothing.” So far as God is concerned…the man is correct.

I may “feel” miserable, but so long as I am not consciously in mortal sin, then I can just blow it off and follow faithfully.

“Story of a Soul” by St. Therese the Little Flower actually deals with this beautifully in her biography, and it’s well worth the read.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum,

 

[InLight247]

Someone mentioned this on another thread, chastising that we shouldn’t expect to feel different, that our faith is not about our feelings. I’m just wondering why not? Why shouldn’t we have some change within ourselves and how we feel? If our faith doesn’t affect our heart and our feelings, is it real? The religious people on TV (non Catholics) seem to be emotionally affected by their faith. Maybe if we aren’t moved by our faith, then it isn’t genunine.

It does seem like alot of Catholics at church are unaffected by Mass and their faith. We walk out of Mass and hop in the car to go to the mall. But then this person said that we shouldn’t expect to feel good or better from our faith. Why not? We are humans like Jesus and he was affected by his faith. Look at the disciples at the Transfiguration, they were full of joy.

So I think that a living faith should move us emotionally. We should feel different after recieving communion or confession. Why not? Maybe because it’s not real to us? If it doesn’t affect our emotions how can it be real to us? Are we more affected by watching a movie? Our faith should affect us more than watching a movie, but instead it seems to often be automatic. I never seen anyone cry or laugh with joy in church.

You have your valid points.

I think instead of saying “faith should not make us feel differently”, what it really meant probably is “faith is not a feeling”, or ”faith should not base on feelings”. In other words, our faith should not base on whether we have emotional feelings or not.

For example, when a person is going through a period of “Dark Night” (spiritual dryness), it is hard for him to feel the presence of God. In that case, it’s recommended that he holds onto his faith by the knowingness and belief of God’s presence and His love, not getting discouraged because his feelings tell him differently.

Sometimes I feel the burning fire in my heart to do God’s work and to love all the people. Sometimes I don’t have that strong feeling. Whether I have this strong feeling or not, I strive to do the right thing.

Also, we are encouraged not to crave for spiritual sweetness. After receiving the Holy Communion, one may be so moved and cry while kneeling down. The other may not have such emotion, but the gratitude in hearts could be the same.

Faith should definitely give us a different outlook on life. This new outlook sometimes involves emotional feelings, sometimes doesn’t. I hope this makes some sense.

 

[Sailboat]

You have your valid points.

I think instead of saying “faith should not make us feel differently”, what it really meant probably is “faith is not a feeling”, or ”faith should not base on feelings”. In other words, our faith should not base on whether we have emotional feelings or not.

For example, when a person is going through a period of “Dark Night” (spiritual dryness), it is hard for him to feel the presence of God. In that case, it’s recommended that he holds onto his faith by the knowingness and belief of God’s presence and His love, not getting discouraged because his feelings tell him differently.

Sometimes I feel the burning fire in my heart to do God’s work and to love all the people. Sometimes I don’t have that strong feeling. Whether I have this strong feeling or not, I strive to do the right thing.

Also, we are encouraged not to crave for spiritual sweetness. After receiving the Holy Communion, one may be so moved and cry while kneeling down. The other may not have such emotion, but the gratitude in hearts could be the same.

Faith should definitely give us a different outlook on life. This new outlook sometimes involves emotional feelings, sometimes doesn’t. I hope this makes some sense.

Hey, I like your post! Very balanced and sensible. You are smart and insightful, and your post seems humble and true!

 

[InLight247]

Hey, I like your post! Very balanced and sensible. You are smart and insightful, and your post seems humble and true!

Thanks!
God bless!

 

[Sailboat]

I’m glad I finally got an answer that made sense, and didn’t seem like a lecturing put down. That’s how I felt from most of the posts on this thread. Thanks!

 

[puzzleannie]

since this question often gets asked in the context of discussing the charismatic gifts, I offer this observation from Fr. Peter Couglin, a very orthodox priest and authority on Catholic charismatic renewal, from Understanding the Charismatic Gifts copyright 1998 CCSO Bread of Life Renewal Center

chap 2 the Isaian Gifts (wisdom, understanding, counsel, strenght, knowledge, piety, fear of the Lord)

“Many people tend to evaluate themselves in terms of how they are growing functionally in the use of charisms and in terms of how they feel–the fruit of the Spirit being viewed mainly as feelings. Having an incorrect perception, people do not make solid, long term progress in terms of their inner growth, and so their functional and emotional life can suffer. Recognizing and cultivating the seven Isaian gifts which deal with the inner transformation of the person can foster a mroe healthy and balanced spiritual outlook. Sometimes people feel discouraged if they do not manifest some of the more extraordinary charisms. The Isaian gifts are given to all and are far more improtant than the Corinthian gifts [tongues, prophesy etc.] for bulding up and growth ot the individual.”

it is an axiom of orthodox Catholic spiritual direction that emotions are not reliable guides to one’s spiritual condition or growth and progress.

if by feelings you mean primarily emotions, no we should not be seeking satisfaction in that way. If you mean by feelings a reasoned judgement based on intellect,memory and understanding, internalized and discerend, with spiritual direction if needed, then yes, we should rely on feelings, but not only on feelings.

 

[InLight247]

I’m glad I finally got an answer that made sense, and didn’t seem like a lecturing put down. That’s how I felt from most of the posts on this thread. Thanks!

Glad to be able to help a little bit.
That is encouraging to me, so thanks to you too!

 

[LilyM]

If God IS Love, then emotion has to be a part of our praise, surely?

I only have to read the passion and I’m crying!

Yes, but as any long-term married couple or family can tell you, there’s more to love than the warm fuzzy ‘in love’ feeling.

Plenty of times it’s about a simple choice to put the loved one’s needs ahead of your own and do for them. Sometimes your efforts appear to go unnoticed or unappreciated, or for some other reason the effort doesn’t give you an emotional ‘high’. Doesn’t mean you don’t love the person.

 

[Verbum]

HI Figthing–,

If God IS Love, then emotion has to be a part of our praise, surely?

In humans, love is often accompanied with physical reaction called emotions. But God is not physical. He does not have emotions. The love of God is His creation : He sees in us a reflection of Himself, as He sees it in the Son.

Even in humans, love is not always accompanied with emotion. People do some pretty nauseous things for the love of God and neighbor.

Verbum

 

[awantz]

Yes, our faith should affect how we feel.