Should people not in communion with rome still genuflect when in catholic church?

  • Thread starter Thread starter miyuki
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

miyuki

Guest
Should they genuflect to the alter and use the holy water in a roman catholic church if they arent themselves in communion with rome?
 
miyuki said:
Should they genuflect to the altar…
Click to expand...
Not if the tabernacle is in a side chapel 😉

Genuflecting is an act of worship.

I’m not sure by “not in communion with Rome” you mean rebellious Catholics, or non-Catholics so you need to clarify your question.
 
I presume the OP means people who are not Catholics, or not yet Catholics. I have the same issue myself, as it’s something I have never done, coming from the CofE.
 
Most people have no idea of the symbolism of a genuflection. It is a gesture of submission to a higher military rank. The posture makes the person incapable of defending himself from attack. It puts him completely at the mercy of the person in front of him.
In the en garde position the right foot is leading with the left foot at a right angle to the right foot with the shoulders centered over the feet. This puts the torso side-on to the opponent and the right hand with sword toward the enemy. In a genuflection the left foot is forward, the right knee on the ground behind it. The person cannot even effectively draw his weapon. And as for assuming the position, he would be dead before he could get half way there.
As this is a *military *gesture, it is in fact inappropriate for a woman to genuflect.
For a Protestant to genuflect toward the tabernacle he would first have to believe that the Lord God is present there, and second would have to believe that he was in all things subject to Him. Only then would the gesture have meaning.

Reb Levi
 
drafdog said:
Most people have no idea of the symbolism of a genuflection. It is a gesture of submission to a higher military rank. The posture makes the person incapable of defending himself from attack. It puts him completely at the mercy of the person in front of him.
In the en garde position the right foot is leading with the left foot at a right angle to the right foot with the shoulders centered over the feet. This puts the torso side-on to the opponent and the right hand with sword toward the enemy. In a genuflection the left foot is forward, the right knee on the ground behind it. The person cannot even effectively draw his weapon. And as for assuming the position, he would be dead before he could get half way there.
As this is a *military *gesture, it is in fact inappropriate for a woman to genuflect.
For a Protestant to genuflect toward the tabernacle he would first have to believe that the Lord God is present there, and second would have to believe that he was in all things subject to Him. Only then would the gesture have meaning.

Reb Levi
Click to expand...
So women shouldn’t genuflect in church? That is truly a new one, and I’m sure will spark a lot of comments here. Wonder why that was never taught back in the day.
 
The explanation of the military basis for genuflection is extremely interesting. It is however, a bit of a reach to say that women should not genuflect because the posture originated in the military. The widow Judith used a sword to cut off the head of Israel’s enemy in the Bible. Are not women part of the Church Militant?

Non-Catholic guests should not be forced to do anything they feel uncomfortable doing. That includes genuflecting, saying lines of the creed they don’t believe in, prayers they don’t agree with, etc. Don’t we want them to feel welcomed and that they should return? Or do we want to force people to believe?

If our faith is really all we claim it to be then they will be intrigued and will ask what it is all about.

-Tim-
 
Blessing one’s self with Holy water is simply recalling our Baptism. If they are a Baptized Christian (by Trinitarian formula), then no problem there.

If they believe that the Lord is truly present then genuflecting is fine as well. As long as they see it as a sign of reverence, respect and humility toward the Lord. I would throw out there that there are Catholics who don’t actually believe the Lord is truly present in the Eucharist and genuflect. Who’s to know which ones unless they tell you. It’s only a sacrilige if you partake of the Body & Blood without recognizing its God and being in a state of grace.
 
Tarpeian_Rock said:
So women shouldn’t genuflect in church? That is truly a new one, and I’m sure will spark a lot of comments here. Wonder why that was never taught back in the day.
Click to expand...
It’s not new.

I’m not defending it (so don’t misunderstand me, I’m merely articulating it), but actually they were taught that “back in the day”…they were often taught to curtsey instead of genuflect.
 
if they believe Jesus is there why not.

for example: an orthodox comes into a Catholic Church, when he genuflects to the Lord (assuming he still thinks the Mass is valid just maybe illicit) is he doing something he doesn’t believe.

it doesn’t come down to being in communion with rome it comes down to belief.

Note: those Catholics who do it out of “obligation” rather out of worship, while I don’t think they are being sinful they need conversion in their life to move from a doing it because others do it, to I do it because Jesus is there.
 
FrDavid96 said:
It’s not new.

I’m not defending it (so don’t misunderstand me, I’m merely articulating it), but actually they were taught that “back in the day”…they were often taught to curtsey instead of genuflect.
Click to expand...
what is important is that the interior disposition of the women is that she is lowering herself in front of God. The traditional practice today is to genuflect but you can genuflect and have a bad interior disposition, while someone else may just do a profound bow and have a better interior disposition to many who genuflect. Note: I think when you understand why we genuflect doing anything else, other than for health reasons, you would consider not as appropriate or not enough.
 
catholictiger said:
what is important is that the interior disposition of the women is that she is lowering herself in front of God. The traditional practice today is to genuflect but you can genuflect and have a bad interior disposition, while someone else may just do a profound bow and have a better interior disposition to many who genuflect. Note: I think when you understand why we genuflect doing anything else, other than for health reasons, you would consider not as appropriate or not enough.
Click to expand...
Of course, I agree.

The reason why women/girls were taught to curtsey instead, had to do with the fact that genuflecting is difficult while wearing some dresses----reverence is one thing, falling on her face is different.
 
FrDavid96 said:
Of course, I agree.

The reason why women/girls were taught to curtsey instead, had to do with the fact that genuflecting is difficult while wearing some dresses----reverence is one thing, falling on her face is different.
Click to expand...
and I have no issue with this.

what should be required for Catholics isn’t one certain way of reverencing the Lord rather that they do it in some way.

Genuflection may be the normal way to do it but the Church almost always full of exceptions. For example, in the USA the normal posture for the EP is kneeling from after the Sanctus to the Our Father. Someone who is old and can’t kneel or in a very poor rural church where kneeling is not very practical, it would be ok that they sit or stand during the EP. I think this situation is very similar.
 
miyuki said:
Should they genuflect to the alter and use the holy water in a roman catholic church if they arent themselves in communion with rome?
Click to expand...
How on earth may genuflecting towards the tabernacle be wrong?!
The Lord is present in the most holy sacrament so it’s proper to kneel for him even though you’re not in communion yourself yet as long as you believe Jesus is present in the Holy Eucharist.
To kneel for Our Lord is never wrong.

As someone has already mentioned in a previous post; Blessing oneself with Holy Water is to recal our baptism so as long as you’re baptized you should be fine:)

Personally I think that you’re over thinking it.
I’m set to convert at Easter myself and I truely believe that Jesus is present so of course I kneel in front of him.
  • Peace in Jesus and Mary
    MarianCatholic
 
TimothyH said:
The explanation of the military basis for genuflection is extremely interesting. It is however, a bit of a reach to say that women should not genuflect because the posture originated in the military. The widow Judith used a sword to cut off the head of Israel’s enemy in the Bible. Are not women part of the Church Militant?

Non-Catholic guests should not be forced to do anything they feel uncomfortable doing. That includes genuflecting, saying lines of the creed they don’t believe in, prayers they don’t agree with, etc. Don’t we want them to feel welcomed and that they should return? Or do we want to force people to believe?

If our faith is really all we claim it to be then they will be intrigued and will ask what it is all about.

-Tim-
Click to expand...
Thanks for the history lesson. I had no idea how rich the symbolism of genuflecting is.
 
catholictiger said:
what is important is that the interior disposition of the women is that she is lowering herself in front of God. The traditional practice today is to genuflect but you can genuflect and have a bad interior disposition, while someone else may just do a profound bow and have a better interior disposition to many who genuflect. Note: I think when you understand why we genuflect doing anything else, other than for health reasons, you would consider not as appropriate or not enough.
Click to expand...
FrDavid96 said:
Of course, I agree.

The reason why women/girls were taught to curtsey instead, had to do with the fact that genuflecting is difficult while wearing some dresses----reverence is one thing, falling on her face is different.
Click to expand...
Chronic dizziness, too.
Hence, a very careful but reverential bow. I’d hate to create a scene for falling flat on my face.🙂
 
cheezey said:
Chronic dizziness, too.
Hence, a very careful but reverential bow. I’d hate to create a scene for falling flat on my face.🙂
Click to expand...
if you feel on your face you would be falling prostrate 😉 lol I only kid
 
FrDavid96 said:
It’s not new.

I’m not defending it (so don’t misunderstand me, I’m merely articulating it), but actually they were taught that “back in the day”…they were often taught to curtsey instead of genuflect.
Click to expand...
I had no idea. I wonder how far “back in the day” this was actually practiced, and if this tended to be more a European thing (said Europeans being used to curtesy in a monarchical culture) than an American practice. My own “back in the day” goes to the sisters in the early 1950’s, and certainly genuflecting was the norm for everyone at that time.
 
Well they should because Christ is there whether they are in union with the Church or not. I suppose the questions would be 1)do they believe He’s there and 2) do they know that genuflecting is the way we acknowledge Him. When I bring guests to church, I don’t tell them about genuflecting, I just assume that they’ll see me and everyone else do it and follow the example if they want to. The same way with other gestures during the liturgy…
 
Any person who believes that Christ is present in the Eucharist held in the tabernacle in the Catholic Church should genuflect when passing by regardless of what denomination they are.
Any person who does not believe this shouldn’t be bound to genuflect to something that they don’t believe in. Whether they want to do this out of respect is up to them.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top