Should police disrupt the Mass?

[centurionguard]

To me the whole practical answer to this question comes down to common sense.
The Police are professionals, let them do their job. The Priest can delay the Mass if need be and continue when the threat or disturbance of Peace has been restored.

 

[englishredrose]

I think they would try to be as discrete as possible because I don’t think an arrest can be made inside a church can it? So they would need the person to leave the church. If the person chooses to seek sanctuary then there is officially nothing the police can do. The Priest, if worth his salt would give sanctuary to the ‘wanted’ and be with them every step of the way whether the ‘wanted’ was innocent or not. If the ‘wanted’ was already in church then it be easier for them to seek sanctuary and harder for the police to deal with anything as they cannot make an arrest I believe then at all. The priest would gently talk the person round hopefully in a way that don’t threaten the person but the person would listen to the priest and the police would then have their ‘wanted’ walk with them to be arrested. So even if the police did disrupt Mass then they can’t arrest. I think for the sake on an hour they would wait in the lobby or somewhere discretely so not to raise alarm. After all the police would know where that person is at that time and could discretly wait and be little chance of the person slipping their arrest and the arrest in England at least doesn’t prove they are guilty. They got to have strong evidence but it don’t make them guilty by the courts at this stage so they gotta be careful still

 

[porthos11]

I think that in at least some countries (don’t know about the US and Canada), it’s actually against the law to disrupt a religious assembly.

 

[Phemie]

I think that in at least some countries (don’t know about the US and Canada), it’s actually against the law to disrupt a religious assembly.

It’s certainly the law in Canada – in fact, it was used against some who insisted on kneeling for Communion in one parish and that case went all the way to the Supreme Court.

That said, it would have to be a deliberate action and I don’t think that the police coming to arrest someone constitutes a willful intent to disrupt a religious service. It’s against the law to run a red light but police and ambulances have the right of way and it’s not against the law for them to do so.

 

[Phemie]

I think they would try to be as discrete as possible because I don’t think an arrest can be made inside a church can it? So they would need the person to leave the church. If the person chooses to seek sanctuary then there is officially nothing the police can do.

I don’t know about England but in the US and Canada there is no such law. Although sanctuary is usually respected, there is no law that recognizes it, it’s decided by the local authorities on a case by case basis.

 

[Sarabande]

To me the whole practical answer to this question comes down to common sense.
The Police are professionals, let them do their job. The Priest can delay the Mass if need be and continue when the threat or disturbance of Peace has been restored.

This.

At my former parish, we’ve had police come in during mass a various times through the years I attended mass there. It was in the city, the cathedral for the diocese(so there have been protests there and people would come in to protest during masses when the bishop was say the mass) and it wasn’t unusual for disruptions to occur during mass. The police were never the ones making the disruption. They actually were always swift and as quiet as they could be unless the person they were taking away was being rowdy and violent. For instance we once had a woman begin to beat the person beside her during mass. It took three men to take her off the other woman (who did not know her). The police showed up almost immediately and took her away and the mass continued after that was handled, but it was disturbed by that woman already and not by the officers. She was mentally disturbed, which was common at that parish to come across many of them as most were homeless. They were usually harmless and this one was actually someone we’d see often at mass, but she was never violent.

Usually, the mass would keep going even when there were disruptions because I think in the cathedral, the sanctuary was so far away from where the disruptions usually were happening that I don’t think the priest or anyone else up there would realize something was happening. Only when there was a lot of noise and banging would it stop. Again, it seemed the police were always close by whenever something did happen… or the regular mass-goers and sacristans who were there handled it very quickly as well before too much disruption could ensue.

 

[jmcrae]

Just as a curiosity: it used to be that when someone entered a church, they could not just go in and get him…the church was like a “sanctuary”…how much has that changed? Can any local authority just act in whichever way most pleases them inside God’s house, or is there some regulation to act in accordance with the clergy on these matters?

I’m not sure that such a thing ever did exist, in reality. It may be simply a literary device for storytellers to provide their characters with a safe place to hide, to make their stories more interesting. It’s hard to imagine members of the clergy aiding and abetting the criminal element in real life.

 

[centurionguard]

I recall having to call the police in during a Mass when I was a sacristan although it wasn’t during a Solemnity. It was a wedding Mass. I man in a drunken stupor had entered the main entrance of the Church and spread out laying on a pew near the entrance atrium. I would have been satisfied to leave him there because he was so wasted he fell fast asleep.

Had not the enterage of the brides family not been very visibly upset I had no choice but to call the police. Given the fact most of the congregation seated hardly noticed the frucas; the police arrived with two officers and escorted the gentlemen with no disturbance given his stupor state.

Given the geographic location of my parish being in the downtown core in back of the city hall with nightclubs, bars and pubs everywhere we get this thing sometimes. Most times the Ushers can handle it with little disturbance and risk. Usually weddings take place Friday’s early evening and Saturday mornings before 12 noon. Daytime drunks can be a problem too but you deal with it in a civil manner.

 

[GaryTaylor]

I have a hard time imagining the police storming in the Chruch to make a arrest regardless of what the situation is. Why would anyone place everyone else at risk? Wouldn’t it be easier to quietly arrest this hypothetical individual when no one else is at risk?

 

[GaryTaylor]

I recall having to call the police in during a Mass when I was a sacristan although it wasn’t during a Solemnity. It was a wedding Mass. I man in a drunken stupor had entered the main entrance of the Church and spread out laying on a pew near the entrance atrium. I would have been satisfied to leave him there because he was so wasted he fell fast asleep.

Had not the enterage of the brides family not been very visibly upset I had no choice but to call the police. Given the fact most of the congregation seated hardly noticed the frucas; the police arrived with two officers and escorted the gentlemen with no disturbance given his stupor state.

Given the geographic location of my parish being in the downtown core in back of the city hall with nightclubs, bars and pubs everywhere we get this thing sometimes. Most times the Ushers can handle it with little disturbance and risk. Usually weddings take place Friday’s early evening and Saturday mornings before 12 noon. Daytime drunks can be a problem too but you deal with it in a civil manner.

This sounds completely logical and realistic.

 

[centurionguard]

This sounds completely logical and realistic.

The worst part I disliked about this whole event is that I later received a court summons to testify against this drunken man. Not because anyone at the wedding made legal charge against him but because the police charged him for being drunk in a public place.

I felt concerned for the guy and made a strong point to tell the police to bring him to the hospital given his extremely stupored state thinking he might stop breathing or aspirate during vomiting. I know it was the right thing to do but it didn’t make me feel any better.

 

[jmcrae]

The worst part I disliked about this whole event is that I later received a court summons to testify against this drunken man. Not because anyone at the wedding made legal charge against him but because the police charged him for being drunk in a public place.

I felt concerned for the guy and made a strong point to tell the police to bring him to the hospital given his extremely stupored state thinking he might stop breathing or aspirate during vomiting. I know it was the right thing to do but it didn’t make me feel any better.

I hope it turned into a positive experience, ultimately. Sometimes it takes an incident like that to wake someone up to the reality of their situation.

 

[centurionguard]

I hope it turned into a positive experience, ultimately. Sometimes it takes an incident like that to wake someone up to the reality of their situation.

The positive experience was that this man ended up being thankfully safe. When I was called to court I was there to be witness for the police officers who layed charges.
The negative part was the judge who got mixed messages as if I was the one who layed the charges and half scolded me thinking I should have removed the drunken gentlemen. I feel the police officers coerced me to be their witness when they waited in the parish parking lot and made me fill out a report in their police cruiser after I cleaned up after the Wedding Mass and locked up the Church. I do not blame the gentlemen for my experience, only compassion for him. Some situations in life never turn out how you take for granted they will.

Fraternally Yours in Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[jmcrae]

The positive experience was that this man ended up being thankfully safe. When I was called to court I was there to be witness for the police officers who layed charges.
The negative part was the judge who got mixed messages as if I was the one who layed the charges and half scolded me thinking I should have removed the drunken gentlemen. I feel the police officers coerced me to be their witness when they waited in the parish parking lot and made me fill out a report in their police cruiser after I cleaned up after the Wedding Mass and locked up the Church. I do not blame the gentlemen for my experience, only compassion for him. Some situations in life never turn out how you take for granted they will.

Fraternally Yours in Christ Jesus
Chris

I know - and the poor have it especially rough. If he’d had a Scarborough address, they would have taken him home quietly and had his wife put him to bed to sleep it off, without making any fuss at all about it - although she might have encouraged him to join AA or something.