Should priests be allowed to marry?

[Catholic4aReasn]

otm:

None of the quotes say that priests should only be celibate, however, and neither does the 2000 year tradition of the Church.

While the post, as was pointed out above, should have been written differently, the question is not so much whether you agree with priestly celibacy, but rather, should the Church ordain any married men (it already does)?

Rarely, and then only in cases of conversion. I’ve been pretty clear that I’m not referring to converts to married convert priests aren’t really germaine to this discussion.

In Christ,
Nancy

 

[Church_Militant]

otm:

None of the quotes say that priests should only be celibate, however, and neither does the 2000 year tradition of the Church.

While the post, as was pointed out above, should have been written differently, the question is not so much whether you agree with priestly celibacy, but rather, should the Church ordain any married men (it already does)?

All I can say is simply this. What does this passage say?
"Matthew 19:10-12
"10 His disciples say unto him: If the case of a man with his wife be so, it is not expedient to marry.11 Who said to them: All men take not this word, but they to whom it is given. 12 For there are eunuchs, who were born so from their mother’s womb: and there are eunuchs, who were made so by men: and there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it. "

Christ Himself said that it is better not to marry and it’s pretty clear from the New Testament that a celibate priesthood is the best way to go.

The 2,000 year history of the church does not support the ordination of those already married, since marriage is considered a different vocation.

I don’t care if we are presently short of priests, that will change as we pray for the vocations and support them in prayer…I do not favor a stop-gap measure to fix a temporary problem. To me that is much the same as Moses’ appproval of divorce for the Israelites and the context of this same passage of the New Testament speaks to that as well.

Should priests be allowed to marry? No.
Pax vobiscum,

 

[kobryan4]

When God made Adam he gave him Eve. I believe that God did not intend for us to be alone in life. I believe that maybe there would be less molestations that have rocked the Catholic church.

God Bless
Kim

 

[RobNY]

Catholic4aReasn:

Have you read Goodby! Good Men?

In Christ,
Nancy

No Ma’am, I have not. Care to fill me in?

When God made Adam he gave him Eve. I believe that God did not intend for us to be alone in life. I believe that maybe there would be less molestations that have rocked the Catholic church.

God Bless
Kim

There is absolutely no evidence that Catholic men (or more specifically, Catholic priests) are more likely to be pedophiles than anyone else.

The only person who I’ve ever heard try to put statistics onto this is the Anglican writer Philip Jenkins (Pedophiles and Priests) who puts the rates at similar to prevailing rates in society. Something like 0.3% for the incidence of pedophilia among priests, I believe. So, when we’re talking about very young children, which pedophilia is, it is extremely uncommon. Ephebophilia is what most of the problems have been, i.e., adults to teenage boys. I believe he finds that the incidence is 2%, which is supposedly comparable to the rate of the same incidents among married men.

The difference is also in the structure of the Catholic Church. It is centralized, things get reported. Protestants are highly uncentralized. Since this information implicates the rate among Protestant clergy, I read this (in a review of the book):

Notwithstanding the difficulties that such data comparisons hold, the available information on clergy sexual misconduct shows that the problem is bigger among Protestant clergy. For example, the most cited survey of sexual problems among the Protestant clergy shows that 10 percent have been involved in sexual misconduct and “about two or three percent” are “pedophiles.” With regard to the “pedophile” problem, the figure for the Catholic clergy, drawn from the most authoritative studies, ranges between .2 percent to 1.7 percent. Yet we hear precious little about these comparative statistics.

It’s not as if people are putting these abuses in context. My point isn’t to rag on Protestants, just to say: this isn’t a Catholic problem. Whenever adults regularly come into contact with children, I can imagine rates of these horrible things are comparable.

The issue is framed around the idea that it is a problem deriving from celibacy. That’s probably why Protestants are ignored. Anyway, the idea of celibacy being the problem is nonsense, celibacy does not drive you to become a pedophile, certainly, nor for a male priest to molest an altar boy. Pedophilia and ephebophilia are disorders, not lapses of self-control.

Others have drawn the strong prevalance of the abuse among male altar servers (I’ve seen 85% quotes) to argue that these cases of epebophilia are a result of problems deriving from homosexual clergy. I can’t say I’m totally convinced, but I have to say, it’s an interesting piece of information to consider.

And in any case, most churches being hit with sexual abuse allegations are Protestant churches, or so a study has found, notes the Christian Science Monitor.

Despite headlines focusing on the priest pedophile problem in the Roman Catholic Church, most American churches being hit with child sexual-abuse allegations are Protestant, and most of the alleged abusers are not clergy or staff, but church volunteers.
These are findings from national surveys by Christian Ministry Resources (CMR), a tax and legal-advice publisher serving more than 75,000 congregations and 1,000 denominational agencies nationwide.

Dr. Shupe suggests the 70 allegations-per-week figure actually could be higher, because underreporting is common… Nearly 4 percent said they had been victims of sexual abuse by clergy. Child sexual abuse was part of that, but not broken out, he says.

James Cobble, executive director of CMR, who oversees the survey, says the data show that child sex-abuse happens broadly across all denominations– and that clergy aren’t the major offenders.

“The Catholics have gotten all the attention from the media, but this problem is even greater with the Protestant churches simply because of their far larger numbers,” he says.

Of the 350,000 churches in the US, 19,500 – 5 percent – are Roman Catholic. Catholic churches represent a slightly smaller minority of churches in the CMR surveys which aren’t scientifically random, but “representative” demographic samples of churches, Dr. Cobble explains.

And if you’d like compiled news sources on sexual abuse by *Protestant *clergy, then please go here.

 

[David_Zampino]

a pilgrim:

Please forgive me, but I believe you may have worded your poll question incorrectly. Rather than “Should priests be allowed to marry?” I believe you may have meant to ask “Should married men be allowed to become priests?”

There is a significant difference.

An EXCELLENT point!!!
a pilgrim:

While the Synod may, indeed, address the issue of faltering vocations to the priesthood by allowing more married men to pursue ordination, I suspect that the thought of allowing those men who are already ordained priests to subsequently marry will not even garner a moment’s consideration.

I agree completely. The first option, possibly. The second option – nope.
a pilgrim:

In the spirit of this poll, keep in mind that married Catholic priests already exist. The concept of a married priesthood, while predominantly foreign to the Latin Catholic Church, it is a commonplace, accepted practice in many of the Eastern Catholic Churches, especially those outside of the United States. These are Catholic priests, in full communion with the See of Peter, to whom any Catholic individual may freely go for sacramental reception and spiritual pastoral care, i.e., *married Catholic priests. *

This is true. It is also true that there have been quite a few members of clergy from other denominations (typically, but not exclusively Episcopalians) who have been accepted for ordination through the “Pastoral Provision”.

It is also important to note that in the Eastern Catholic Churchs, and amongst the “Pastoral Provision” clergy (and the Orthodox churches) marriage MUST take place PRIOR to ordination. If one’s spouse dies, one is REQUIRED to then live a life of celibacy.

Blessings.

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

otm:

While the post, as was pointed out above, should have been written differently, the question is not so much whether you agree with priestly celibacy, but rather, should the Church ordain any married men (it already does)?

Au contrar otm!! As the writer of the question, “whether you agree with priestly celibacy” is exactly what I was querying. “Should the Church ordain any married men (it already does)”, while it might be an interesting question, really isn’t relevent to this particular poll.

Careful not to critcize a poll for not more clearly asking something it was never meaning to ask.

In Christ,
Nancy

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

kobryan4:

When God made Adam he gave him Eve. I believe that God did not intend for us to be alone in life. I believe that maybe there would be less molestations that have rocked the Catholic church.

God Bless
Kim

Hi Kim!

You might want to read this:

Myths about priestly pedophilia

Especially relevent would be #'s 2 and 3.

In Christ,
Nancy

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

RobNY:

No Ma’am, I have not. Care to fill me in?

.

Goodbye! Good Men is by Michael S. Rose. The subtitle is “How Catholic Seminaries Turned Away Two Generations of Vocations From the Piresthood”.

I highly recommend it!

In Christ,
Nancy

 

[dafalax]

First of all, your question is worded badly. Do you mean should priests after their ordination be allowed to ask their parishioners out on dates to find a wife? No. You shouldn’t have to avoid your spiritual leader because you two had a date that ended badly. It would destroy the detachment that helps keep priests objective and better able to serve their flock. Should married men be allowed ordination? Pro: more priests. Cons: 1. They would want to set the example and have as generous a family as they could, so the parishioners would end up footing the bill for children. 2. Priest would be less effective if he were distracted by marital problems, teenage son’s meth addiction, etc. 3. Priest would be less effective even without family problems because he still has to put time and effort into them in order to be fair. 4. Would be more difficult to transfer a priest and his whole family around and wouldn’t be fair to kids. Of course all of this could be avoided if married men just waited until their children were grown before seeking ordination, but then who waits till retirement age to seek a vocation? In short, i don’t think married men should be allowed to become priests for their own good, for the sake of their families, and for the best interests of the parishioners. Should priests be allowed to marry? They already are. To sweet lady C. What mortal woman could compare to that?

 

[Krasnaya_Kometa]

I have mixed feelings. I very much respect the reasons why the Vatican has chosen what it has chosen, and would never dream of arguing against the Vatican. Priests are alrady married to the Church. I think there are a ton of cons to married men becoming priests. That said, I’d become a priest myself if they could get married, which is probably just my human weakness showing through yet again.

So in short, I’ll let the Vatican decide and support their decision no matter what.

 

[otm]

Church Militant:

All I can say is simply this. What does this passage say?
"Matthew 19:10-12
"10 His disciples say unto him: If the case of a man with his wife be so, it is not expedient to marry.11 Who said to them: All men take not this word, but they to whom it is given. 12 For there are eunuchs, who were born so from their mother’s womb: and there are eunuchs, who were made so by men: and there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it. "

Christ Himself said that it is better not to marry and it’s pretty clear from the New Testament that a celibate priesthood is the best way to go.As the text cited is not about married vs unmarried clergy, it does not make your point. The point is that there is a charism of celibacy, of which not all are given, and that it is highly valued.
Church Militant:

The 2,000 year history of the church does not support the ordination of those already married, since marriage is considered a different vocation.

Obviously you do not know the history of the Church. The Church has had a married ordained clergy since its inception; the continuation of that has been in the Eastern Church, but even in the Western Church, it has had married clergy for a significant part of its history, and has married clergy today.
Church Militant:

I don’t care if we are presently short of priests, that will change as we pray for the vocations and support them in prayer…I do not favor a stop-gap measure to fix a temporary problem.

And I do not suggest allowing married men to be ordained as a stop gap measure or as a “cure” to the issue of the number of vocations.
Church Militant:

To me that is much the same as Moses’ appproval of divorce for the Israelites and the context of this same passage of the New Testament speaks to that as well.

Poor analogy; divorce was a wrong that was allowed. Married clergy was not and is not a wrong to be allowed; it is more a question of good and better.
Church Militant:

Should priests be allowed to marry? No.
Pax vobiscum,

On that we agree. where we apparently disagree is whether or not married men should be ordained in the Latin rite (as they are ion the Eastern rites).

 

[otm]

Catholic4aReasn:

Au contrar otm!! As the writer of the question, “whether you agree with priestly celibacy” is exactly what I was querying. “Should the Church ordain any married men (it already does)”, while it might be an interesting question, really isn’t relevent to this particular poll.

Careful not to critcize a poll for not more clearly asking something it was never meaning to ask.

In Christ,
Nancy

since you are the writer of the question, your explanation makes clear what the poll did not.

My response: while there may be isolated instances of priests once ordained being allowed to marry, the evidence so far which I have read is that once ordained, whether maried or not, the priest will not be allowed to contract a new marriage.

Given that history for that length of time in both Eastern and Western rites, although it might technically be possible, I would say that it would be practically impossible.

My undestanding to the exception is the case of a priest, married with young children, who’s wife dies; he might be given permission, but it is by no means at all automatic, or evne expected.

My opinion? Should the Latin rite allow, even on an experimental basis in a very limited fashion the ordination of married men (not converts), I would expect an immediate petitioning by a large number of men who were ordained, laicized and subsequently married to be reinstated in active ministry. And I would presume the answer would be “no”, as there is simply no historical precedent except for the extremely limited circumstances noted above.

 

[Brain]

shoot, i voted wrong

 

[otm]

Catholic4aReasn:

Goodbye! Good Men is by Michael S. Rose. The subtitle is “How Catholic Seminaries Turned Away Two Generations of Vocations From the Piresthood”.

I highly recommend it!

In Christ,
Nancy

And I don’t; it is poorly written and researched. In particular, he constantly uses anonymous statements or changes the name of the speaker, his research has already been vetted (see, for example, comments in National Catholic Register) as poorly done, and he has a bit or more of the appearance of looking for a juicy bit of scandal as opposed to factual detailing. I much prefer the writing of George Weigel.

There are worse examples of reporting on the issue then Rose. Would that he were a better researcher and writer.

 

[betra2000]

Priests know what they are getting into when they become priests. They knew when they got into this that they would have to live a life of celibacy. If they wanted a different life other than this, then they should not have become priests. I think that they should not be allowed to marry.

 

[JoeS]

On the other hand, it certainly would boost numbers and there are many places having to share priests or completely do without.

I disagree it would boost numbers. Maybe in the short term but there are shortages in most all Christian denominations.

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

otm:

And I don’t; it is poorly written and researched. In particular, he constantly uses anonymous statements or changes the name of the speaker, his research has already been vetted (see, for example, comments in National Catholic Register) as poorly done, and he has a bit or more of the appearance of looking for a juicy bit of scandal as opposed to factual detailing. I much prefer the writing of George Weigel.

There are worse examples of reporting on the issue then Rose. Would that he were a better researcher and writer.

Isn’t the National Catholic Register a liberal publication often criticized for it’s dissenting opinions? It’s no big surprise they’d dislike a book written by someone faithful to the Magesterium.

In Christ,
Nancy