Should rapists contracept?

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Clearly you will never understand that rape is a crime. IT IS NOT A SEX ACT.
I’m sorry sister, but I disagree. I do in fact understand that rape is a crime. (and I don’t really get the accusation that I don’t understand such?) It is also a sex act. It is an evil act, it might be said not to be a conjugal or marital act, but it seems to me that it is a sex act. A very disordered, perverted sex act. Please try to calm down a bit, this is a freindly conversation among people of faith. I am not trying to anger or frustrate you. Please be patient with me.
 
Clearly you will never understand that rape is a crime. IT IS NOT A SEX ACT.
I second that statement, Patrice. I have made that point a couple of times in this thread. Rape may be a violent assault on a person’s sexual organs, but it is most certainly not a sex act. Some people have trouble making that distinction, while for others it is crystal clear. I hope this thread can help those participating to become educated on that. Just as an assault on an athlete’s musculature in order to terrorize them and prevent them from competing (like Nancy Kerrigan) is not exercise, and assault on someone’s sexual organs is not a sex act.

ETA: I hope that exercise example is not too bad of an example, nor an offensive one. I was just trying to give an analogous example.
 
Just FYI, I’m explaining a 3rd view, not necessarily accepting it myself.
What view do you subsribe to - or are you, like me, uncertain?
A destitute woman who is driven to prostitution to feed her children is sinning every time she has sex with a “client”. However, because prostitution is nothing like marriage, she has no additional requirement to be open to life, and in fact may be mitigating the sin by using contraception to reduce the incidence of STD transmission.

Fair enough. For this reason then, someone who holds this view (we’ll call it view 3) would be expected to hold the belief that contraception should exist and be generally available, correct?​

I still have a hard tim reconciling the belief that contracepting is intrinsically evil but also that it might be acceptable sometimes. Has the Church ever stated that contraception is only wrong in situations that do not resemble marriage? I am aware that Bishops have allowed for contraception in some cases, and I am aware that the Church teaches that the Conjugal act must remain open to life - but is there anywhere that it has been stated that contraception is only evil under married or married-esque circumstances? If it is merely speculation, that’s fine too, as best I can tell there seems to be room for speculation on the matter.
 
I second that statement, Patrice. I have made that point a couple of times in this thread. Rape may be a violent assault on a person’s sexual organs, but it is most certainly not a sex act. Some people have trouble making that distinction, while for others it is crystal clear. I hope this thread can help those participating to become educated on that. Just as an assault on an athlete’s musculature in order to terrorize them and prevent them from competing (like Nancy Kerrigan) is not exercise, and assault on someone’s sexual organs is not a sex act.

ETA: I hope that exercise example is not too bad of an example, nor an offensive one. I was just trying to give an analogous example.
I’m not interested in splitting heirs as far as terminology is concerned, I looked in miri - would “potentially procreative act” suit your sense better? I’m willing to use that, even though it’s slightly more vague. While you’re “educating” people on what rape is, you might want to send a letter to :

MedTerms, who defines rape as: “Forced sexual intercourse; sexual assault; sexual intercourse between an adult and a minor…”

legal-dictionary.com says “Rape is the commission of unlawful sexual intercourse or unlawful sexual intrusion.”

Merriam-Webster says: “*unlawful sexual activity *and usually sexual intercourse carried out forcibly or under threat of injury”

I understand that rape is a tragic subject and difficult to talk about, as most of us are either victims or have loved ones who have been victims of rape. still, I’d rather this thread be about the subject in the OP (morality of contraception and how it applies to rapist rape victim) and not squabling over definitions.
 
What view do you subsribe to - or are you, like me, uncertain?
See below.
Fair enough. For this reason then, someone who holds this view (we’ll call it view 3) would be expected to hold the belief that contraception should exist and be generally available, correct?
I don’t think so. The most I would say is that a person holding the view might not be opposed to contraception existing and being generally available because of its possible mitigating effects. Kind of like a needle exchange program for drug abusers – I see valid arguments on both sides of the issue, even though it might be undisputed that such a program would lessen the impact of disease spread through dirty needles.
I still have a hard tim reconciling the belief that contracepting is intrinsically evil but also that it might be acceptable sometimes. Has the Church ever stated that contraception is only wrong in situations that do not resemble marriage? I am aware that Bishops have allowed for contraception in some cases, and I am aware that the Church teaches that the Conjugal act must remain open to life - but is there anywhere that it has been stated that contraception is only evil under married or married-esque circumstances? If it is merely speculation, that’s fine too, as best I can tell there seems to be room for speculation on the matter.
Here is my view. The Church’s prohibition against contraception was put into final form during the middle ages, when there was an extremely oppressive view against sex, even marital sex. Many theologians of the time taught that enjoying marital sex was a venial sin. I believe St. Thomas argued that it was less sinful for a man to rape a woman than for the man to masturbate, because at least rape involved the correct use of one’s genitals. So naturally, at that time, anything (such as condoms) that could allow more people to enjoy sex was completely wrong.

Skip to post Vatican II. Pope Paul VI put together a committee to advise him on how to extend the Church’s teaching on contraception to the pill. The committee majority wanted to scrap the prohibition against contraception altogether (as long as married couples were open to children over the entire course of the marriage), but Paul VI overrode their recommendation due to the longstanding nature of the Church’s teaching. This left the teaching intact, but without a rationale anymore, because everyone had finally figured out that it is okay to enjoy marital sex. Strictly speaking, Humanae Vitae only applies to married couples, with the understanding that sex outside of marriage is always wrong.

Thus, application of the prohibition against contraception on sex outside of marriage is in the realm of theological speculation. The logical approach is to take the rationale for the prohibition within marriage to see how it applies in other cases, but this approach is hampered by the fact that the rationale was only to avoid changing a long standing Church teaching when the original reasons for that teaching no longer apply.

Candidates for new rationales for prohibiting contraception are the “new natural law” approach and the “theology of the body” approach, but each has it problems. Medical applications (e.g., infertility diagnosis) also complicate the discussion. All in all, I think it’s time to admit that not only is the medieval rationale wrong, but also the medieval conclusion.
 
I’m not interested in splitting heirs as far as terminology is concerned, I looked in miri - would “potentially procreative act” suit your sense better? I’m willing to use that, even though it’s slightly more vague. While you’re “educating” people on what rape is, you might want to send a letter to :

MedTerms, who defines rape as: “Forced sexual intercourse; sexual assault; sexual intercourse between an adult and a minor…”

legal-dictionary.com says “Rape is the commission of unlawful sexual intercourse or unlawful sexual intrusion.”

Merriam-Webster says: “*unlawful sexual activity *and usually sexual intercourse carried out forcibly or under threat of injury”

I understand that rape is a tragic subject and difficult to talk about, as most of us are either victims or have loved ones who have been victims of rape. still, I’d rather this thread be about the subject in the OP (morality of contraception and how it applies to rapist rape victim) and not squabling over definitions.
I think a point here is that rape is not like consensual sex, even though the same type of event is “physically” occurring. The mindset of the offender is wanting to do something bad to the victim, and the victim is forced to endure it in a state of numbness/fear/horror which is not how people act when they are having consensual sex.

It is possible for people to use sex for reasons that are not sexual at all but rather involve intimidation. “Putting the victim in his/her place.”

I think these definitions do matter because as far as I know, the Church’s position on contraception relates to consensual sex during marriage. Since rape is not consensual sex and not usually within marriage (although that can happen) - then I think Humanae Vitae is irrelevant to rape and contraception. Unless they specifically discussed rape in there, and I have never read it. It’s tempting to say that those conclusions such as being open to life can be extrapolated to rape but unless they say so specifically, I wouldn’t be sure about that. I would think the Church would also consider harm to the victim from lack of contraception.

Complicating all this is the use of rape in wartime, which another poster addressed. Whatever the Church says about rape needs to cover not “only” what happens to individual victims in peacetime, but large numbers of victims in wartime. And from what I understand, raping large numbers of women and children is one way enemies show their strength in victory, and it can also be used for “ethnic cleansing” as in Bosnia. One of the worst incidents of mass rape happened in Berlin and other parts of Germany in 1945 at the end of WW2 as the Russians took possession of the city.

When this happens, large numbers of women can get pregnant and that can destabilize a society. In Germany in 1945, about 10% of the female victims committed suicide. A lot of people got pregnant.

This is from wikipedia:

At the end of World War II, Red Army soldiers are estimated to have raped around 2,000,000 German women and girls.[78][79] Norman Naimark writes in “The Russians in Germany: A History of the Soviet Zone of Occupation, 1945-1949.” that although the exact number of women and girls who were raped by members of the Red Army in the months preceding and years following the capitulation will never be known, their numbers are likely in the hundreds of thousands, quite possibly as high as the 2,000,000 victims estimate made by Barbara Johr, in “Befreier und Befreite”. Many of these victims were raped repeatedly. Antony Beevor estimates that up to half the victims were victims of group rapes. Naimark states that not only did each victim have to carry the trauma with her for the rest of her days, it inflicted a massive collective trauma on the East German nation. Naimark concludes “The social psychology of women and men in the soviet zone of occupation was marked by the crime of rape from the first days of occupation, through the founding of the GDR in the fall of 1949, until - one could argue - the present.”[80] German women who became pregnant after being raped by Soviet soldiers in World War II were invariably denied abortion to further humiliate them as to carry an unwanted child.[citation needed] As a result, according to the book Berlin: The Downfall, 1945 by Antony Beevor, some 90% of raped Berlin women in 1945 had venereal diseases as results of these consequential rapes and 3.7% of all children born in Germany from 1945 to 1946 had Russian fathers. The history behind this particular rape of the German women by the Soviet troops was considered a taboo topic until 1992. (See also Red Army atrocities.)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_rape#Europe

It seems to me that whatever the Church says about rape and contraception needs to cover mass/war rape as well as rape of individuals. Since the Church (although it has the just war theory) tends to prefer societies that are stable and at peace, I would think in this case contraception might be allowed because it might slightly lessen widespread instability. And in that case I would think the same conclusion would follow for individuals.

But I really have no idea on what the Church teaches about this. I just believe that they would have to take the full ugliness of rape into account, including that it is used as a wartime weapon (today in the Sudan) and also that they would realize rape is not consensual sex so their conclusions about consensual sex and contraception do not apply in this case.
 
Ok, like JL, I do not believe that rape is a sexual act. It’s a violent assault, whereas sex is used as the weapon. Contraception is when a couple purposely renders the marital act closed to life. It doesn’t matter if the couple is actually married, they are still engaging in the marital act, if unmarried, they’re just doing it illicitly and invalidly. It’s still, by nature, the marital act.

Rape is NOT the marital act. So whether or not the rapist uses a condom it’s not going to be a sin for the victim. The rapist and victim are not a “couple” and are not engaging in the “marital act”.

And every time this topic comes up (and it’s come up on these forums many times), it’s nearly always as a way to “get” the Church. Either the Church is evil and mean by not letting a rape victim “protect herself” (even though-like abortion in the case of saving the life of the mother-the cases of a rapist giving the rape victim the option of condom use is so rare it’s practically nonexistant. If he’s going to use a condom, it’s going to be for his own protection, not hers, and he’s already in mortal sin for raping her), or it’s “AHA! the Church DOES makes exceptions. So why can’t married couples use condoms if…(insert whatever heartbreaking situation would call for condom use)… but rapists can?”

Just my opinion and experience.

In Christ,

Ellen
 
Regarding contraception being situationally rather than intrinsically evil, have people forgttten that during the appalling war in the (then) Belgian Congo during the 1960’s, nuns were prescribed the Pill so that pregnancy would not bring scandal to the Church in the event of rape?
I’ve heard about this, but I don’t know anything about it. Do we know who specifically said the nuns were free to take BC pills to prevent pregnancy from rape? What reason (if any) did they give for it being acceptable?

I wonder if the act is any different - the nuns were contracepting in advance in case they’d get raped, the victim in my hypothetical is requestion contrception because she is being or will be raped. I don’t know that it makes any difference.

There seems to be unanimous agreement by the participants in this thread that catholic teaching sometimes allows for contraception, that contraception is, unlike abortion, not always wrong, and therefore not intrinsically evil. That surprises me a bit.
 
Rape is NOT the marital act. So whether or not the rapist uses a condom it’s not going to be a sin for the victim. The rapist and victim are not a “couple” and are not engaging in the “marital act”.

Ellen
I agree with you which is why I said Humanae Vitae was not relevant to rape. The only thing I said contrary to this is that I thought HV described sex within marriage. Since you’re saying that unmarried couples are still engaged in the marital act, just not within the bounds of Church teaching, than HV applies to more situations than I thought it did. But it still is not relevant to rape, as I understand things.
 
There seems to be unanimous agreement by the participants in this thread that catholic teaching sometimes allows for contraception, that contraception is, unlike abortion, not always wrong, and therefore not intrinsically evil. That surprises me a bit.
I’ve been looking for documents that talk about the Church’s position on contraception outside marriage and I haven’t yet found any. If there are some, I would be obliged if someone could post a link.

In any case, it is certain that you cannot ever use any potentially abortifacient methods of birth control, whether inside or outside marriage. These methods include the Pill (and the IUD). This leaves at least two possible explanations for the “Congo nuns” issue:


  1. *]The abortifacient properties of the Pill may not have been known at the time, at least not by whoever authorized the issue of the Pill to the nuns.

    *]The incident never happened. It is astonishingly difficult to find anything besides hearsay evidence that such permission was ever given. The most commonly cited source for the story is Fr. Charles Curran, and we all know how reliable he is on moral issues. (Or in case you don’t know, he’s not at all reliable, or rather, he is reliably wrong.) I have no idea whether this affects his reliability on factual issues, but there doesn’t seem to be much evidence that permission was given by the Vatican for this to happen. It is possible that the incident happened, but that permission was given by the local Bishop only, not Rome, or it is possible that the incident never happened at all.

    I personally can’t say one way or another whether barrier methods of contraception are forbidden outside marriage. It’s hard to see how either permission or forbidding could be worded, given that the only context possible would be that of a mortal sin. In either case, I hold to my opinion that for the victim of rape, it is no sin to choose or request a condom. And given that the use of a condom makes conviction of an unknown rapist (not a date-rapist) much more difficult, it might work.

    –Jen
 
This article is written by John Allen and it comes from the National Catholic Reporter, a news source people may or may not like, but he quotes a number of people here. After discussing the issues, the conclusion seems to be that women with an immediate and personal fear of rape can use artificial birth control.

findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1141/is_16_37/ai_71250738/
 
Thank you very much for sharing that article, Silentstar.

Is there anyone on this board who agrees with this statement “Contraception is intrinsically evil and cannot ever be allowed”? It seems clear to me that while contraception is almost always wrong, it isn’t always wrong, unlike intrinsically evil acts (eg abortion) which can never be justified.

I have heard people say things like "contraception is intrinsically evil when…(used in marriage or some other criteria), but I’m not sure that you can apply such caveats to intrinsic evils. Because they are intrinsic, they are always…or am I missing something? I’m no theologian, and I’ve certainly missed things before.

My brain is also a bit scrambled at the moment - tonight I learned that my brother-in-law has cancer and I’ve had a couple or 5 beers. He is something of a hero and role model to me, as he seems as near perfect a husband and father that has walked the earth since Joseph. Please pray for him and his family. Don’t feel you have to respond indicating you prayed in this thread, just please pray. THANKS:) !
 
Rapists shouldn’t be rapists…but they are, because they rape. I wish they’d not rape, but they do rape.

When a man rapes a woman, would you prefer he contracept with a barrier method of contraception or would you prefer he remain open to life? Rape is a grave sin. Contraception is a grave sin. I wish people didn’t rape or contracept. I hope that my daughter never gets raped, and I hope she never contracepts. I hope that if she does get raped, the rapist wears a condom - and if he offers her a choice, I hope she’d choose to have him wear one. There was such a case in the news a few years back, so it isn’t as silly a hypothetical as some people’s first reactions might think. I may change my mind on that depending on the knowledge learned in this thread. My questions are:
  1. Would it be wrong to encourage a would-be rapist to wear a condom in an effort to reduce the liklihood of pregnancy and STDs (assuming of course that you had done everything in your power to prevent the rape but failed)?
  2. Would the rapist be committing a worse action by raping with a condom than if he didn’t wear a condom?
Sorry Micah, but reading this is getting me nauseous. I would certainly want him to wear a condom.
  1. If doing everything in my power to prevent a rape still resulted in a rape, of course I’d encourage him to wear a condom. I would be crazy not to. I don’t want his diseases and I don’t want his sperm and the thought of being skin to skin with him disgusts me.
  2. I can’t see how a rapist would be committing a worse action by raping with a condom than if he didn’t wear a condom, and who cares about him if he did? Not to be uncharitable and unkind, but I don’t care about him at all. My priority is with the woman being raped.
Rape is not sex. The act of sex in marriage can’t compare to the act of violence that a rapist inficts on a woman, so I can’t see the application of condoms in this case. The reasons why the Church forbids the use of condoms doesn’t apply to rape (IMOHO). What does the Church teach about rape and condoms? does it actually for bid condoms in the case of rape? On what grounds? What’s the rationale for it? And who is accountable, the rapist or the woman?
 
Sorry Micah,
For what, disgreeing with me? I’m not sure you do, and even if you did, I would not have you appologise for it. This is a discussion board, if we all agreed, there would be no need for discussions.🙂
Rape is not sex. The act of sex in marriage can’t compare to the act of violence that a rapist inficts on a woman, so I can’t see the application of condoms in this case. The reasons why the Church forbids the use of condoms doesn’t apply to rape (IMOHO). What does the Church teach about rape and condoms? does it actually for bid condoms in the case of rape? On what grounds? What’s the rationale for it? And who is accountable, the rapist or the woman?
I disagree that rape isn’t sex. It is sex, it is just violent, illegal, perverted, disgusting non-traditional sex and as such, the same rules might not apply as apply to husband-and-wife celebrating the sacrament they share. Otherwise, with regards to contraception, I think we’re on the same page.
 
Great question. Thanks for making us think. 👍
Thank you for your charity and welcome to the board! I’m rather new here myself. I was a little intimidated at first, there are a few posters here who might try to bully you by pointing out your low post count or attributing negative motives to you posts. BE the better person and hang in there - while there are a few seemingly bad apples, there is also a great bunch here!
 
When a man rapes a woman, would you prefer he contracept with a barrier method of contraception or would you prefer he remain open to life?
Ok, I thought the question on “should your kid use a condom if they’re going to have pre-marital sex that they shouldn’t be having” was ridicules, but this takes the whole cake.

I take it all back, there is a such as a stupid question.
 
Ok, I thought the question on “should your kid use a condom if they’re going to have pre-marital sex that they shouldn’t be having” was ridicules, but this takes the whole cake.

I take it all back, there is a such as a stupid question.
That isn’t very charitable, brother. I’m sorry that you think my question (or post) is stupid, but it has helped me increase my understanding of church teaching and as such I’m not sorry for creating it. God Bless You, and I hope you find a thread you like better.
 
Condoms are only an intrinsic evil when used as a contraceptive in marriage. They are not a intrinsic evil if used as a PPD, or contraception outside of marriage. Its a silly question IMHO.
 
Condoms are only an intrinsic evil when used as a contraceptive in marriage. They are not a intrinsic evil if used as a PPD, or contraception outside of marriage. Its a silly question IMHO.
On what do you base your stance that condoms are not an intrinsic evil outside of marriage? Is it your oppinion that birth control is allowed in pre-marital sex (which itself is not allowed, of course)?

It makes me feel sad when you call my question silly. It was a question I had so I thought it worthy of discussion, to better my understanding. I have learned from it.
 
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