Should salaries be capped?

[LCMS_No_More]

Hmm, wonder what the purpose of incorporating is?

Depends. Usually, it’s in order to conduct one business and to protect the owner or partners from personal liability if something goes wrong.

Also define what you mean by false business.

Where a person creates a corporate entity to protect him or herself from personal liability without actually going into business. Ever hear the ads on the radio?

 

[LCMS_No_More]

I don’t understand. You think Bentonville should subsidize people in the USA?

That you don’t understand is obvious otherwise you wouldn’t have typed that second sentence (which makes no sense whatsoever). Read up on on the principle of subsidiarity.

 

[mapleoak]

Depends. Usually, it’s in order to conduct one business and to protect the owner or partners from personal liability if something goes wrong.

And is there something wrong with having this intention.

Where a person creates a corporate entity to protect him or herself from personal liability without actually going into business.

Kind of hard to be a farmer and not be in business.

Ever hear the ads on the radio?

Can’t say that I have. I don’t listen to the radio.

 

[BamaRider]

That you don’t understand is obvious otherwise you wouldn’t have typed that second sentence (which makes no sense whatsoever). Read up on on the principle of subsidiarity.

It was Wal Mart and their vast, efficent distribution network, that no govt run operation could ever match, that sent supplies to the coast in the Katrina aftermath. They were there days before the govt could even get close. The only govt that operated with honor and duty those days were the military.

I’m sure Wal Mart poors millions and millions into charities, but I don’t have the numbers. They don’t need the govt to make them do it.

Can you imagine the rampage if the word got out the local Wal Mart was handing out checks on register 6??? In todays’s entitlement driven society, they’d be a frenzy.

My head hurts listening to all this stuff about govt mandated handouts by corporations. I gotta go do some running .

 

[goofyjim]

Maybe my perception was wrong? My guess was you thought it was a evil empire because they employ thousands and thousands, pay them MW, little benefit etc, close and open stores at will, leaving ugly blights on the landscape, line their rich CEOs with obscene salaries, and make huge profits off the backs of the poor cart guys, bakery cooks, and floor sweepers. Is that not pretty much what you think Wal Mart is?

They start them at MW. They don’t indiscriminately lay them off when they get to a certain point. My Dilbert desk calendar says it best for today folks.

“I’d like to promote you, but the lowest salary band for the next level is 20% higher than your current pay. Raises are capped at 5%, so there’s no way to give you the promotion. So I plan to hire someone from the outside that you can train to be your supervisor.”

 

[LCMS_No_More]

And is there something wrong with having this intention.

Is that a rhetorical question or a statement of opinion?

Kind of hard to be a farmer and not be in business.

I never said that there’s anything wrong with having a business.

Can’t say that I have. I don’t listen to the radio.

And you’re probably the better for it.

 

[BamaRider]

“I’d like to promote you, but the lowest salary band for the next level is 20% higher than your current pay. Raises are capped at 5%, so there’s no way to give you the promotion. So I plan to hire someone from the outside that you can train to be your supervisor.”

Again I don’t follow ya. The floor sweeper at Wal Mart has no *chance *to be a store mgr, or take a staff a position in Bentonville? If that is the case, I didn’t know that.

 

[goofyjim]

Again I don’t follow ya. The floor sweeper at Wal Mart has no *chance *to be a store mgr, or take a staff a position in Bentonville? If that is the case, I didn’t know that.

I can’t speak for Walmart. It is public evidence that this is the case at Circuit City. Do you like twisting my words?

 

[LCMS_No_More]

It was Wal Mart and their vast, efficent distribution network, that no govt run operation could ever match, that sent supplies to the coast in the Katrina aftermath. They were there days before the govt could even get close. The only govt that operated with honor and duty those days were the military.

Actually, if FEMA had been run competently and according to its mandate, there would have been no need for Wal*Mart to get involved, but that’s irrelevant to what I’m trying to say. Nice try at deflection, though.

I’m sure Wal Mart poors millions and millions into charities, but I don’t have the numbers. They don’t need the govt to make them do it.

Can you imagine the rampage if the word got out the local Wal Mart was handing out checks on register 6??? In todays’s entitlement driven society, they’d be a frenzy.

My head hurts listening to all this stuff about govt mandated handouts by corporations. I gotta go do some running .

You’re operating based on this right-wing straw man that people who disagree with you are evil libs who believe that the government (or someone else) should hand money out to people. You’re not even in the same star system, let alone planet, of what I’m trying to say.

You either are unable to grasp what I’m trying to say or don’t want to but here goes…

The Principle of subsidiarity says that the lowest competent level should do what it can. You see this at Mass every time a deacon reads the Gospel and helps distribute communion. It means that if a small business can deliver a good or service, than it should. It means that if a local agency can provide a service to a community, than it should. It’s a principle that is both anti-big-business and anti-big government.

As an example, I go to my local barber for my haircut because she does a good job for me…much better than if I went to a corporate chain. It’s hard to shop locally for much else, though, because big corporations own everything. While that may be good in the very short-term, it ends up moving the money out of a community and somewhere else.

It used to be that you’d need a hammer, you’d go to your neighborhood hardware store, and buy the hammer. The owner of the hardware store would send off for a new hammer but the profit he made would go to support his family who would spend their money locally. It kept money in a community. Now, you need a hammer, you go to Home Depot and the money goes to Vinings, GA. This is all good and well if you live in Vinings or Georgia, but not if you live out in the middle of the country where your town has been decimated by large corporate retailers.

What I’d like to see is these corporations broken up so they can either only operate in one state or only do one thing. It would help keep local money local and help to encourage small business (which is what free enterprise should be about, yes?).

 

[mapleoak]

Is that a rhetorical question or a statement of opinion?

I was asking you a question. (forgot the question mark though, oops).

I never said that there’s anything wrong with having a business.

What was your intent behind asking if my business was legitiment or not? Do you know what is involved with incorporation?

Having pointed out that a corporation is not a faceless entity, albeit in a roundabout way, we can go back to the following:

The purpose of a corporation is to conduct business in order to make a profit.

The purpose is not to hire or keep people employed. If employees are not needed, there is no moral obligation to hire any.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

I was asking you a question. (forgot the question mark though, oops).

In that case, it’s not a bad thing if you’re conducting business.

Actually, since you said your corporation doesn’t run its own business and I usually think that a corporation would do what corporations do (business), I was curious as to the nature of your coporation. That’s all.

I know that there are filing fees and paperwork involved. Other than that, since I don’t own a business and have no intention of doing so, there’s no need for me to know much except that the government issues a charter to allow a corporation to exist.

Having pointed out that a corporation is not a faceless entity, albeit in a roundabout way, we can go back to the following:
The purpose is not to hire or keep people employed. If employees are not needed, there is no moral obligation to hire any.

Not all corporations are faceless entities. It all depends on the size, doesn’t it? Your small business operating as a corporation is one thing. The Walt Disney Company (a major media conglomerate corporation) is another thing altogether. The closest I get to a face from WDC is of a harmless, smiling mouse with a blue cone-shaped hat with stars and a moon on his head.

[/QUOTE]

 

[consumedconvert]

But you envy those who make more – else why come down on the side that salaries should be capped?

Well, it could POSSIBLY be that I am concerned for others, and not simply scrounging for my own benefit. I mean, is that a possible motivation? Concern for others?

 

[consumedconvert]

You are mischaracterizing Vern’s argument. Capping salaries is an acceptable response to the Catechism, but it is not the only response. This is not a matter of the “the ends justify the means.” It is a matter of determining which good ‘means’ will result in a good 'end.'

Thank you, sir. You comprehend exactly why I contemplate the idea. Thank you for realizing that disagreement doesn’t have to lead to accusations of envy, or contempt.

 

[BamaRider]

I can’t speak for Walmart. It is public evidence that this is the case at Circuit City. Do you like twisting my words?

LOL take a breath, I thought you were talking about Wal Mart because the context of the question I asked was about Wal Mart. If the floor sweeper at CC has no chance to move up, I reckon I won’t be goin to work there

 

[BamaRider]

Actually, if FEMA had been run competently and according to its mandate, there would have been no need for Wal*Mart to get involved, but that’s irrelevant to what I’m trying to say. Nice try at deflection, though.

You’re operating based on this right-wing straw man that people who disagree with you are evil libs who believe that the government (or someone else) should hand money out to people. You’re not even in the same star system, let alone planet, of what I’m trying to say.

You either are unable to grasp what I’m trying to say or don’t want to but here goes…

The Principle of subsidiarity says that the lowest competent level should do what it can. You see this at Mass every time a deacon reads the Gospel and helps distribute communion. It means that if a small business can deliver a good or service, than it should. It means that if a local agency can provide a service to a community, than it should. It’s a principle that is both anti-big-business and anti-big government.

As an example, I go to my local barber for my haircut because she does a good job for me…much better than if I went to a corporate chain. It’s hard to shop locally for much else, though, because big corporations own everything. While that may be good in the very short-term, it ends up moving the money out of a community and somewhere else.

It used to be that you’d need a hammer, you’d go to your neighborhood hardware store, and buy the hammer. The owner of the hardware store would send off for a new hammer but the profit he made would go to support his family who would spend their money locally. It kept money in a community. Now, you need a hammer, you go to Home Depot and the money goes to Vinings, GA. This is all good and well if you live in Vinings or Georgia, but not if you live out in the middle of the country where your town has been decimated by large corporate retailers.

What I’d like to see is these corporations broken up so they can either only operate in one state or only do one thing. It would help keep local money local and help to encourage small business (which is what free enterprise should be about, yes?).

You’re tryin to tell me ANY govt entity can be run as efficiently as Wal Mart? If ya think that, I’m not the only one out here on Mars. It is NOT physically possible, it will never happen. Nothing the govt does outside of defense, is effiecent. You wanna turn over where a private company can do business to the same people that run medicare, social security, education?? LOL. Why do you think other govt entities are run any better any better then FEMA?? Those beasts are inept no matter who the President is.

I know, I hear the same old mantra from those folks, “just give us a little more money, and we can fix this.” Gimme a break.

I UNDERSTAND your concept of lowest common level doing what it can. Somethings I buy locally, some I don’t. Sometimes I’ll pay more to avoid fooling with Wal Mart, but when I go to buy a couple hundred dollars worth of groceries I go to Wal Mart… What do you do? Go locally and get less stuff for the same money? If ya do, then you’re at least consistent and I can go along with that.

Big ticket item? I go to the chains. I’m NOT gonna pay 20% more for a TV when I don’t have to.

I’m not telling ya Wal Mart doesn’t hurt local guys. It does. So does the internet. My hobbies (motorcycles, endurance training) requires specific high end gear. I can’t go to Wal Mart and find the quality I need in my helmet, or running shoes. And the market is to narrow for a local company to carry such stuff. So I buy online.

I’m with ya on haircuts, I pay the extra to make sure I get a good one. Hammers? Nah, all the same, so I go to the cheapest place.

Where you frighten me is in anti big govt laws. All that is gonna do is limit MY choices, and make me pay more for a hammer, and that would make me

I understand the Church’s position on this on how you state it. I do agree everyone (people and business) should give back in proportion to there blessings. Whether that happens or not ain’t up to the govt.

I don’t agree free enterprise should be slanted to small business and anti Corporations. Look here, I hate going to wal mart as much as anybody, because of the hassle, mainly and I’ll pay a little more for quality and good service (both lacking at Wal Mart) depending on the product. Heinz Ketchup? I don’t care who sales that to me, shopping a GPS running watch? I gotta have service and expertise.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

You’re tryin to tell me ANY govt entity can be run as efficiently as Wal Mart? If ya think that, I’m not the only one out here on Mars. It is NOT physically possible, it will never happen. Nothing the govt does outside of defense, is effiecent. You wanna turn over where a private company can do business to the same people that run medicare, social security, education?? LOL. Why do you think other govt entities are run any better any better then FEMA?? Those beasts are inept no matter who the President is.

Quite the tallking point fest going on there…I’ve heard that somewhere before…lemme think…oh, yes. It was back when I used to listen to this well-known radio host who broadcasts from Florida nowadays before lunch, my time.

Actually, when it comes to accomplishing the missions of the agencies in question, most of them do a pretty good job considering what they have to work with and the laws they operate under. Private companies are good at what they do because they operate on a different basis than do government agencies. Businesses exist to turn a profit, public agencies exist to provide services.

I know, I hear the same old mantra from those folks, “just give us a little more money, and we can fix this.” Gimme a break.

In many cases, it’s more like, keep our funding steady and we can do our jobs. More than you’d like to think, nowadays.

I UNDERSTAND your concept of lowest common level doing what it can. Somethings I buy locally, some I don’t. Sometimes I’ll pay more to avoid fooling with Wal Mart, but when I go to buy a couple hundred dollars worth of groceries I go to Wal Mart… What do you do? Go locally and get less stuff for the same money? If ya do, then you’re at least consistent and I can go along with that.

It’s kinda tough to do in a big city like Los Angeles. The problem I have with big corporations and unregulated capitalism is that it always ends up creating either a monopoly situation or two big behemoths controlling most of the market. This is why the Church commends regulation of the economy.

Big ticket item? I go to the chains. I’m NOT gonna pay 20% more for a TV when I don’t have to.

Again, in a place like LA, I don’t know of many small businesses that carry good TV’s. I know of a couple, but their interest rates are rather…steep.

I’m not telling ya Wal Mart doesn’t hurt local guys. It does. So does the internet. My hobbies (motorcycles, endurance training) requires specific high end gear. I can’t go to Wal Mart and find the quality I need in my helmet, or running shoes. And the market is to narrow for a local company to carry such stuff. So I buy online.

Right. Which one does more damage? If I want something now that a local business carries, I’ll run by and pick it up.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

(continued)

I’m with ya on haircuts, I pay the extra to make sure I get a good one.

I’ve been going to the same lady for almost 11 years now and I wouldn’t dream of going anywhere else. It’s about the relationship that forms. That’s the way it should be. The same holds true for restaurants. I’ve been known to drive over 35 miles in LA evening traffic to have dinner at my favorite Mexican restaurant because it’s that good and we get excellent service (could be that I’m a generous tipper).

Hammers? Nah, all the same, so I go to the cheapest place.

It’s an illustration, but if you get the principle of what I’m talking about, you’ll see that it’s better to shop that the store that is regionally or locally owned than the nationwide chain if you can.

Where you frighten me is in anti big govt laws. All that is gonna do is limit MY choices, and make me pay more for a hammer, and that would make me

I would think a rightie like yourself would love anti-big government laws. Or do you mean my advocacy in breaking up the megacorps. Believe me, it would be better for everyone if that kind of power was dispersed. More jobs, better pay, etc.

I understand the Church’s position on this on how you state it. I do agree everyone (people and business) should give back in proportion to there blessings. Whether that happens or not ain’t up to the govt.

Once again, I’m not talking about “giving back,” I’m talking about how business and government operate. Subsidiarity.

I don’t agree free enterprise should be slanted to small business and anti Corporations.

Free enterprise ain’t free if the market’s locked up by a monopoly.

Look here, I hate going to wal mart as much as anybody, because of the hassle, mainly and I’ll pay a little more for quality and good service (both lacking at Wal Mart) depending on the product.

All good and well.

Heinz Ketchup? I don’t care who sales that to me,

That’s why God invented Costco or Vons (or Ralphs or Kroger or whatever).

shopping a GPS running watch? I gotta have service and expertise.

We should want that on everything…which is why I have become an advocate for distributism (look it up–it’ll surprise you).

 

[BamaRider]

Actually, when it comes to accomplishing the missions of the agencies in question, most of them do a pretty good job considering what they have to work with and the laws they operate under. Private companies are good at what they do because they operate on a different basis than do government agencies. Businesses exist to turn a profit, public agencies exist to provide services.

An example of a efficiently run govt agency would be what? Lemme guess, the Dept of Health, Education and Welfare!! :whacky: Now don’t it make ya feel good they are looking out for ya!? No, wait a minute, The office of Vital Statistics!! Now there’s a bunch of go getters, ever try to get copy of Birth Certificate? There is no such creature as efficently run govt agency. They don’t have to be, because they have NO competion, unlike Wal Mart who has folks coming at them from all sides of the retail world.

While you’re on roll to cap salaries and bust up monoplies I suggest you start right there in Washington DC. Bust up the HEW and make schools compete, and see if they don’t improve. Salary caps, all for it, start with govt. Cap the salaries of all dept heads and freeze all merit raises.

Sheesssssssh I give up. If you want to know what happens when a liberal govt is allowed to run amuck, all you gotta look to is California, Michigan, NY and most major cities, but I digress. Today is Friday, day. So I’m gonna read the paper then take a long ride to my favorite pizza hangout for lunch, and slam a pepperoni, for no other reason then I can.

Since the dems think I’m rich, I’ll need to stop by Staples and pick up Turbo Tax to see how bad I’m gonna get nailed *this *year.

I’m gonna leave the rest of this to Vern.

So what does LCMS stand for??

 

[Al_Masetti]

Ah … the government agencies.

They train their “spokespersons” to maintain a marvelous front appearance … of concern and competence … they feel your pain … all the while masking the chaos that goes on behind the scenes as the bureaucrats spend their energy counting ceiling tiles (to make sure they didn’t get shortchanged when the cublicle spaces were assigned) … No joke. Or… they complain endlessly about the inequities of their retirement plans with lifetime medical. [Another no joke.] And often they do their complaining in front of people who have neither.

And for them, the “ACTION” takes place in the office, not out in the field where the public lives and works.

---

Once upon a time, when I needed a passport and showed up with all my papers in hand, I was denied. WHY??? Because I didn’t have a Birth Certificate. The thing … the piece of paper in hand … was NOT a Birth Certificate … [are you ready for this?] … it was … [are you sure you’re ready???] … a Certificate of Birth Registration.

[What?]

“It’s the only thing I have.”, sez I.

“Well, yes.” sez the clerk.

“But we can’t issue you a passport without a birth CERTIFICATE.”

I began to stammer. “Yes, you see, but the fate of the Western World depends on my getting this passport today because I have my plane tickets and my military orders and they are expecting me to fight the onrushing hordes in just a couple of days”.

[That’s a dramatization, of course.]

“Orders?”, asked the clerk.

“Hmmm.” said the clerk.

“Well, according to these orders, we can indeed issue you a passport and in fact there will be no charge.”

And the beat goes on.

[Years later, having gone through decades on the strength of my Certificate of Birth Registration, I sent in a bunch of money and was issued an actual Birth Certificate. I am so relieved.]

 

[Al_Masetti]

'Nuther thought just hit me …

… the Good Samaritan … [another dramatization, of course] …[it was after all, a parable ] … was not a government employee. Nor was he a bureaucrat. NOR was he a clergy-person.

Nope.

The Good Samaritan was a business man with a lot of money who put his own life in danger rescuing the guy in the ditch and then paid for the victim’s medical bills and lodging … without no questions asked. Nothing asked in return.

How does that speak for the private sector and the notion of private charity?

All bought and paid for by uncapped salaries.

There once was a man from Samaria
Who went on a trip to make money
But he found a guy in a ditch … paid for his pills
And all he got was some free publicity.

[Can you make this thing rhyme?]