Should she stay with him?

[Truly_Beloved]

What appears to be happening are most people are making decisions on what they want for themselves, to satisfy their quest for emotional retribution.

See, for me, it wouldn’t be about myself, it would be about my other/future children. I mean, we’re talking about a man who put his own 2 month old infant in a microwave and cooked his baby (however briefly). If I were in the situation, I would feel morally obligated to protect my children, and I feel that would be best accomplished by not staying with a man who cooked my baby. If a man can cook a baby, what else will he do? I would be in constant fear for my children’s lives.

Maybe I do place more importance on an innocent baby than what seems to be an unhealthy marriage, but I’m sure it’s because I’m fairly new at this Mommy business. I would, however, pray like crazy for him.

 

[mariam1976]

See, for me, it wouldn’t be about myself, it would be about my other/future children. I mean, we’re talking about a man who put his own 2 month old infant in a microwave and cooked his baby (however briefly). If I were in the situation, I would feel morally obligated to protect my children, and I feel that would be best accomplished by not staying with a man who cooked my baby. If a man can cook a baby, what else will he do? I would be in constant fear for my children’s lives.

Maybe I do place more importance on an innocent baby than what seems to be an unhealthy marriage, but I’m sure it’s because I’m fairly new at this Mommy business. I would, however, pray like crazy for him.

by the way, this baby lost her ear… has 3rd degree burns… FYI…

It seems he also hit her in the stomach when she was pregnant…!!

 

[Dan_Grelinger]

See, for me, it wouldn’t be about myself, it would be about my other/future children.

I agree with that reasoning. At least for existing children. I am not sure that leaving the husband would do anything beneficial for future children. Unless preventing their existence is considered a good thing.

Sincerely,

Dan

 

[Rach620]

I don’t think most people are after ‘emotional retribution’ on this thread so far. There is instead an overwhelming concern for the safety and well-being of the wife and mother who was herself victimized by the murder of her child, and for the protection of any other children in the family. She needs to heal herself–and I’m not sure that can adequately take place anywhere near this deranged man.

This is the primary concern, and must be. Forgiveness and the salvation of the husband can only come after this. You can’t forgive if you’re dead.

I really don’t think there is any way one can say that it would ensure his salvation if this woman stayed with her murderer husband. He is obviously violent and severely disturbed, and needs help which she cannot give him. Medication, therapy, and being removed from society are the only prescription. A whole army of doctors, therapists, priests and others praying for this man might not even save him.

She should continue to pray for him, and try to forgive him in her heart, wishing for his repentance, but in no way is her companionship as his wife any longer required or, imho, expected. I would think that her separating herself from him would probably do a lot more to bring about his repentance than continuing to live with him as his wife will.

Perhaps it still sounds selfish, but when a woman’s life, or the lives of her children, are in danger, their safety comes before any need of theirs to ensure the salvation of another. We have the responsibility to protect our own lives and the lives of innocents; to stay with him is reckless.

 

[tomch]

The question on whether she should stay with him is probably a moot point anyway.

I hear that child abusers are not “well liked” by the rest of the prison population. The chance that he finishes his sentence might be somewhat slim.

 

[whatevergirl]

by the way, this baby lost her ear… has 3rd degree burns… FYI…

It seems he also hit her in the stomach when she was pregnant…!!

 

[Dan_Grelinger]

She needs to heal herself–and I’m not sure that can adequately take place anywhere near this deranged man.

This is the primary concern, and must be. Forgiveness and the salvation of the husband can only come after this. You can’t forgive if you’re dead.

Does his action justify her breaking the vows she made in marriage? What other things justify this? Emotional Cruelty? Adultery? Additiction to Pornography?

If the need to heal oneself of being hurt justifies breaking our marriage vows, what good are they?

Sincerely,

Dan

 

[Rach620]

So the baby didn’t die, mariam1976?

That’s good to hear, but even more frightening that the mother is putting herself and her child back into the same situation.

 

[Rach620]

Does his action justify her breaking the vows she made in marriage? What other things justify this? Emotional Cruelty? Adultery? Additiction to Pornography?

If the need to heal oneself of being hurt justifies breaking our marriage vows, what good are they?

It’s not just the need to heal, but to protect herself and her family from the emotional and physical danger of being with this man. I see them all as victims of abuse–the Church does not ask victims of abuse to remain with their abusers. That seems to give implicit approval to their actions, which is most certainly not going to help this man repent for his sins.

Also-- I’m not sure their separation would be the breaking of marriage vows, would it? Mental illness is, after all, grounds for an anullment, so it could be that there weren’t any vows there to begin with. I don’t know… it’s a tough situation.

 

[Dan_Grelinger]

It’s not just the need to heal, but to protect herself and her family from the emotional and physical danger of being with this man. I see them all as victims of abuse–the Church does not ask victims of abuse to remain with their abusers. That seems to give implicit approval to their actions, which is most certainly not going to help this man repent for his sins.

I agree with you. Separation is moral to protect life. There were other reasons given by the poster that I was responding to.

Sincerely,

Dan

 

[whatevergirl]

Does his action justify her breaking the vows she made in marriage? What other things justify this? Emotional Cruelty? Adultery? Additiction to Pornography?

If the need to heal oneself of being hurt justifies breaking our marriage vows, what good are they?

Sincerely,

Dan

If he was not going to jail…the need would be to keep him from harming others, Dan. Sometimes, people shouldn’t get married to certain people. An annulment would be justified here…and secondly, this relationship sounds far from healthy. It’s toxic. God wants us to be in toxic relationships? The gift of marriage isn’t to be taken lightly…maybe this woman wasn’t thinking clearly…and if he was abusive while they were dating, which probably isn’t a stretch…(abuse usually escalates over time) then he could have even frightened her into marriage. Just food for thought.

 

[Dan_Grelinger]

If he was not going to jail…the need would be to keep him from harming others, Dan.

I agree with this reason. But your post indicated that another reason was most important, and that was the one that is not proper.

Sometimes, people shouldn’t get married to certain people. An annulment would be justified here…

This would indicate that you do not understand marriage. Even if we should not make the commitment, but we do, and did it validly, then we are married, for life. Then there can be no annulment. Annulment is not a right. It is only a finding that a marriage never existed, not because of anything that happened after the wedding, but what happened AT the wedding.

and secondly, this relationship sounds far from healthy. It’s toxic. God wants us to be in toxic relationships?

I agree, this relationship has to be the pits, but if you suggest that a true marriage can be dissolved because it is, then we disagree. Once married, always married.

The gift of marriage isn’t to be taken lightly…maybe this woman wasn’t thinking clearly…and if he was abusive while they were dating, which probably isn’t a stretch…(abuse usually escalates over time) then he could have even frightened her into marriage. ust food for thought.

If that occured, and she did not enter into marriage freely, then no marriage took place. However, that appears to be a hypothetical, and not applicable to this case. She has perfect reason to leave now, but want to stay. Sounds like a free choice she is making, probably the same she made when she married.

Sincerely, Dan

 

[Dan_Grelinger]

By the way, so that I am not misunderstood, based upon what I read of this specific case:

The child still lives and needs to be protected. This man has demonstrated habitual violence. It is possible that he could eventually change, but at the moment, the child would seem to be in danger with him around.

Therefore, this woman’s best course of action would be to take her daughter and separate from him. For the reason of protecting her daughter’s life.

Sincerely,

Dan

 

[whatevergirl]

I agree with this reason. But your post indicated that another reason was most important, and that was the one that is not proper.

This would indicate that you do not understand marriage. Even if we should not make the commitment, but we do, and did it validly, then we are married, for life. Then there can be no annulment. Annulment is not a right. It is only a finding that a marriage never existed, not because of anything that happened after the wedding, but what happened AT the wedding.

I agree, this relationship has to be the pits, but if you suggest that a true marriage can be dissolved because it is, then we disagree. Once married, always married.

If that occured, and she did not enter into marriage freely, then no marriage took place. However, that appears to be a hypothetical, and not applicable to this case. She has perfect reason to leave now, but want to stay. Sounds like a free choice she is making, probably the same she made when she married.

Sincerely, Dan

I do know what marriage is…I sense a patronizing tone. And, I don’t think we know enough details to say if she should be married…if this marriage is valid. It’s really not for us to judge, I think. First and foremost…(and I see your last post)–the children should be protected.

 

[CCM08]

Personally, I think this guy needs a date with a hangman and then staying married to him would be a non-issue. As my grandfather says, “ham isn’t the only thing you can cure with hanging.”

 

[Katie1723]

… They seem to be selfishly motivated. Is this man’s salvation best served by being deserted by his wife? …

In my opinion doing what he did, he can worry about his own salvation.
I would pray for him, but from a distance…a far distance.
Kathy

 

[Dan_Grelinger]

In my opinion doing what he did, he can worry about his own salvation.
I would pray for him, but from a distance…a far distance.
Kathy

If you promised for better or for worse, would you break that promise? Is marriage a contract, such that if your spouse fails, you are free to break the commitment you made?

Or is it a covenant, that no matter what happens, you choose to love unconditionally and honor your commitment?

Sincerely,

Dan

 

[mamacita]

If she does that, she’s just plain NUTS herself!! He’ll cook her next from what it sounds like he is crazy!!! :nope:

Did he brainwash her? Where is her brain at right now to even think to stay with him??

 

[Katie1723]

If you promised for better or for worse, would you break that promise? Is marriage a contract, such that if your spouse fails, you are free to break the commitment you made?

Or is it a covenant, that no matter what happens, you choose to love unconditionally and honor your commitment?

Sincerely,

Dan

Darn straight I would! I would have a hard time believing you would stay with someone who tried to microwave an innocent child…covenant or no covenant. You stay with someone like that , you are as nutty as they are.
Kathy

 

[deb1]

By the way, so that I am not misunderstood, based upon what I read of this specific case:

The child still lives and needs to be protected. This man has demonstrated habitual violence. It is possible that he could eventually change, but at the moment, the child would seem to be in danger with him around.

Therefore, this woman’s best course of action would be to take her daughter and separate from him. For the reason of protecting her daughter’s life.

Sincerely,

Dan

I thought that was what we all were saying. This woman should leave this man and if the church can not give her an annulment, she should remain celibate but safely away from him. So, I’m not certain what you are debating here.