Should society be nicer to criminals?

[oliver109]

The big news lately is of course the mistreatment of George Floyd while he was under arrest, this has got us all asking the big question: how well should society accommodate those who break the law? many have said that criminals should expect to be met with potential rough treatment by police and all injuries or deaths suffered by the criminal are deserved as they should not expect to be treated with kid gloves. Other people are saying that police should put their lives and bodies at risk so that criminals are treated humanely and despite potential officer deaths being higher it would all be for the greater good as a more gentle police force would ultimately lead to a society where law enforcement is respected by all but the most criminal elements. Then there is the factor of incarceration, America as the worlds highest incarceration rate, perhaps America is being too hard on criminals? or maybe American society has lead to criminal behavior becoming more common?

 

[StudentMI]

I’ll just mention two issues.

Prison rape is a problem that our society has yet to address adequately. Indeed it is looked upon as a funny topic and even by some as a just reward for crime. It is an affront to human dignity.

Look at Norway which has a limit on how long people can go to prison for. They seem to be doing okay.

 

[Dan_Defender]

I saw a documentary about prison life in Norway. First off, the individual cells are more comfortable than many hotel rooms. Then, there’s the amenities: top of the line kitchens, supermarket in the prison, music studio for prisoners… the prisoners are free to walk about and sit around and talk with the prison guards, who have to have a master’s degree in psychology. Life is good, but I’m thinking the cost to taxpayers would be huge unless the rate of incarceration is very low

 

[anon16282382]

Ven Fulton Sheen didn’t recommend taking very kindly to criminals. Of course, Officer Chauvin went way too far.

Watch Sheens video on False Compassion

 

[TheLittleLady]

What does “be nicer” mean?

Sould we all respect each other because of our inate human dignity? Yes.

Can those who enforce the law in some places be highter paid, be better trained, better screened, do so while respecting human dignigy? yes.

Is visiting the prisioner part of our moral duty as Catholics? Yes, it is one of the corporal works of mercy.

 

[StudentMI]

Is visiting the prisioner part of our moral duty as Catholics? Yes, it is one of the corporal works of mercy.

Amen, sister

 

[oliver109]

By nicer i mean taking a firm but fair approach, indeed what you mentioned is exactly what we should be doing, the biggest problem in America today is that there is a large segment of the population that believes that police should use extreme force on anyone who resists because their lives matter more than those of the criminals. A lot more training, encouragement of people from all walks of life to enter the police force would put an end to the brutality that has affected people of all races and classes.

 

[F_Marturana]

Yes.

Many of the victims are also young inmates often those who transition from the juvenile system.

It’s systemic, it isn’t a joke.

 

[White_Tree]

I’m thinking the cost to taxpayers would be huge unless the rate of incarceration is very low

I actually see that as a positive.

America has more people in prison than any country in the world except for China. (Technically, America has more people in “prison” but if you count China’s concentration camps, then China comes out ahead, though America might be winning on a per capita basis.)

There should be no financial incentive for a society to lock people up. It should be prohibitively expensive, in order to force that society to deal with the underlying causes of crime, rather than just trying to lock it away and pretend the problem doesn’t exist.

 

[VonDerTann]

Should society be nicer to criminals? I’m not sure what exactly that means.

In the US, a good argument can be made that criminals are already treated much too well: Prisons have TVs; full law libraries so inmates can pursue endless appeals; and gyms; the new model for prisons is “open concept” prisons where inmates spend little time in cells and more time in common areas; prisoners have access to lawyers, medical care, and religious services. An argument can be made that a large part of the crime problem in the US is that many people don’t really fear prisons, as they may have in, say, the 1950s.

I do think criminals should have access to better programs to help them be reintroduced into society. The US could likely do that better, but I don’t know enough to comment on that fully.

IMHO a more “gentle” police force helps anything, except to empower criminals.

 

[oliver109]

IMHO a more “gentle” police force helps anything, except to empower criminals.

I suppose it depends on how well run a country is whether it’s police being polite towards criminals works, i don’t think police being friendly in say Columbia or Brazil would suddenly reduce crimes in those countries because the underlying problems in those societies mean violent crime is a much bigger issue than in Germany or Ireland. In Britain where i am from the police generally try and show as little aggression as possible to resolve a situation, it is the norm across Europe, i remember a video on youtube of some off duty Swedish policemen calmly subduing an aggressive man on a subway train and i thought "that is what you get when you train police well and recruit from all classes in society as opposed to the police in many American states which from what i have seen are often formed largely of working class white people(outside the big cities)

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

Also, Norway seems to have a lower RE-incarceration rate.

There’s a part of me that’s very impressed. It seems to be working for them.

And there’s another part of me that says “no fair! Why should the criminal get a nice vacation while the honest people have to work hard to pay for it all? Where’s MY vacation for obeying the law?”

(no I don’t live in Norway)

 

[oliver109]

I suppose when you have so much beautiful scenery to enjoy as you do in Norway it would be a shame to be locked up in a large cell with a play station and tv!

 

[SPBlitz]

I saw a documentary about prison life in Norway. First off, the individual cells are more comfortable than many hotel rooms. Then, there’s the amenities: top of the line kitchens, supermarket in the prison, music studio for prisoners… the prisoners are free to walk about and sit around and talk with the prison guards, who have to have a master’s degree in psychology. Life is good, but I’m thinking the cost to taxpayers would be huge unless the rate of incarceration is very low

I’d be interested to know what crimes the criminals in Norway have committed. I’m pretty sure if they were rapists or murders most people would not be okay with this type of prison.

 

[oliver109]

The mass murderer Breivik was given a very roomy accommodation with all the home comforts one could want, that was after committing the worst terrorist attack by a lone gunman.

 

[SPBlitz]

The mass murderer Breivik was given a very roomy accommodation with all the home comforts one could want, that was after committing the worst terrorist attack by a lone gunman.

I think the problem that I have with this is that there are two aspects to punishment - remedial and retributive. While I think our system skews too far to retributive, I think that this system skews too far towards remedial.

I wonder, what did the victims families think of his treatment?

 

[oliver109]

Yes, i think the Norwegian system only works because their society is a fundamentally middle class one with a great deal of common ground between all citizens, they don’t even number more than a few million people so i suppose Norway could not really be compared with the US as their society is a far more local one and could only be compared to the most rural and undiverse regions of America. I think the British have it about right, our jails are quite unpleasant tbh and from what i have seen watching prison shows on tv many American jails actually look “nicer” but when it comes to sentencing we are very fair, you will only get a long sentence if you do something seriously out of order like harming a child or killing multiple people, murderers can be out in less than 20 years quite often.

 

[Pattylt]

From what I’ve heard…yes, hearsay…part of the problems minorities have is in how they are initially approached by police. If it’s true that blacks are treated with hostility whereas a white is treated more politely, that can be studied and addressed. If every interaction with law enforcement begins with respect and dignity, would things improve?

Racial profiling needs looking at as well. It shouldn’t be the case of having a fear of driving “while black”. The number of times blacks are pulled over for driving a nice car or being in a white neighborhood needs to end.

I watched how law enforcement “controlled” the protesters. It seems you can move people back without taking a baton to their legs…without shoving a 75yo man…without point blank shooting rubber bullets in a wheelchair bound person. Other areas and countries manage large crowds with much less aggression. We need better solutions and we need to start with better attitudes.

 

[OKComputer]

I’m ambivelent about this. I think it’s profoundly naive not to realize that there are some people out there who are hardened criminals and they can’t be treated with soft words and cuddles. I’m also deeply disturbed by people who coddle criminals yet ignore the victims.

Now, having said that, I’m strongly in favor of criminal justice reform. Legalizing marijuana, enforcing strict police accountability, and changing sentencing so that victimless crimes aren’t punished with such severity.

 

[BartholomewB]

unless the rate of incarceration is very low

Compared with the United States, the prison population rate in Norway is very low, as it is in most European countries. The Norwegian rate is 60 prisoners per 100,000 of the national population. That is pretty much the same level as in neighboring Sweden (61 per 100,000) and Denmark (71). In the United States the number is ten times higher: 655 prisoners per 100,000 of the population.

https://www.prisonstudies.org/country/norway