Should the Catholic Church become a Clone?

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Erm… it sounds like someone who doesn’t like Vatican II, and is hunting for a pulpit form which to express their opinion…
 
I’m not a catholic, I suppose I’m protestant, and I say no, do not become a clone.

If you believe in Mary how can you subdue her?
If you believe in confession how can you stop confessing?
If you believe birth control is a sin then why do you use it?
If you believe in the rosary how can you stop praying it?

I, or we even, may debate with you on stuff but I think we can all agree it is sinful to go against your convictions. You’re our big brother, we need you! Do not go whoring about with our sins or those of the world. Be that fortress! You stand upon Peter why should you conform?

This day and age there is no dry ground. Everyone is swimming, drowning even, in a sea relativism with no dry ground in sight. Despite what they say they are looking for dry ground, a foundation without movement and not made of sand. Start confessing again, pray the rosary every day and be the church Jesus compelled you to be!
 
Semangelof said:
I’m not a catholic, I suppose I’m protestant, and I say no, do not become a clone.

If you believe in Mary how can you subdue her?
If you believe in confession how can you stop confessing?
If you believe birth control is a sin then why do you use it?
If you believe in the rosary how can you stop praying it?

I, or we even, may debate with you on stuff but I think we can all agree it is sinful to go against your convictions. You’re our big brother, we need you! Do not go whoring about with our sins or those of the world. Be that fortress! You stand upon Peter why should you conform?

This day and age there is no dry ground. Everyone is swimming, drowning even, in a sea relativism with no dry ground. Despite what they say they are looking for dry ground, a foundation without movement and not made of sand. Start confessing again, pray the rosary every day and be the church Jesus compelled you to be!
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I’m curious, if these are your genuine feelings, why do you not consider becoming Catholic?
 
ProdglArchitect said:
I’m curious, if these are your genuine feelings, why do you not consider looking into becoming Catholic?
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I’m on that path but I have to accept each part in it’s own time. My heart has to believe each piece, otherwise my heart stands against me convicting me of sin.
 
yeah, I’m worried…
However, this is but a single instance of how the Sixties’ Catholic Church ‘protestantised’ Herself in order to diminish the gap between the reformed denominations and Her own tradition. When the new Mass was devised, very obvious Protestant additions and concessions were inserted in the Mass.
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For example, the doxology ‘For Thine is the Kingdom, the Power and the Glory’ was added to the Pater Noster, following the Anglicans. And clearly, the new orientation of the Priest facing the people and speaking in the vernacular was far closer to an Anglican service than it was to the Catholic practice of centuries.
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Semangelof said:
I’m on that path but I have to accept each part in it’s own time. My heart has to believe each piece, otherwise my heart stands against me convicting me of sin.
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Well then, I will say a prayer for you, that your journey goes well.
 
Semangelof said:
I’m on that path but I have to accept each part in it’s own time. My heart has to believe each piece, otherwise my heart stands against me convicting me of sin.
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That’s great! Keep searching and whenever your ready the Church is there for you. 👍 We’d love to have you be part of the family! Don’t be afraid to ask questions of any us here, if there’s anything we can help you with.

And welcome to the forums by the way!
 
When the new Mass was devised, very Protestant additions and concessions were added into the Mass.
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For example, the doxology, “For thine is the Kingdom, the Power and the Glory” was added to the Pater Noster, following the Anglicans.
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The doxology is not Protestant.

The Didache, written in the first century, has the doxology at the end of the Our Father.

The reason it’s even in any translations of the bible is because an overzealous Catholic monk added it in, because that’s how the Church had been praying it for centuries.

It’s very Catholic and Biblical, why shouldn’t it be in the Mass?? Whether or not Anglicans used it first in their liturgy doesn’t make it wrong to have in our Mass, or mean in anyway that the Church is trying to copy Protestants.
 
In re. the doxology ('For Thine is the Kingdom, the Power and the Glory’) being added post Vat II:

While that may be true, it’s not 'entirely true–that is, it’s not the entire story. Here is an excerpt of a summary (with link):
Very early on in the Catholic Liturgy, the Lord’s Prayer was concluded with a doxology (a prayer of praise), “For Thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever and ever”. This was not part of the original Greek Scriptural text and consequently is not included in many modern Bible translations.
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However, there are other non-Scriptural writings which have been preserved from the early days of the Church. It was here, where the doxology was first found in the important document called the “Didache,” (written between 70-140 AD). “Didache” (Did-ah-kay) simply means ‘teaching’. The “Our Father” in the Didache had the doxology tagged onto the end without the words “the kingdom”. The tradition of the doxology was carried into the Liturgy, and became so closely associated with the Lord’s Prayer that it is now often mistaken to be part of the prayer itself. The words “the kingdom” were added later and are preserved in the document “The Apostolic Constitutions” (written 250-380 AD). The “Our Father” is contained twice in the Bible (Matt. 6:9-13; Luke 11:2-4) with no doxology for although very ancient, it is not found in the original manuscripts. This is simply a prayer from the believers in the early centuries of the Church whose spirits were moved by the Holy Spirit to close this beautiful prayer in grandiose fashion. These early writings never present it as an essential part of the “Our Father”, but rather an “embolism," (added prayer), intended to increase fervor and direct the intention of the faithful.
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The early Church did use the doxology in the Liturgy just as we do today. The doxology has been included in and taken out of the Mass throughout history. This prayer had been omitted from the Liturgy of recent centuries until Vatican II when it was reauthorized for use at Mass only. It is recited and acknowledged as an ancient prayer of praise. This is why it is not said immediately following the words “deliver us from evil”. So why do Protestants use these words?
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It is believed that a copyist when copying Matthew’s Gospel put a note in the margin, noting that in the Mass, we follow the “Our Father” with the doxology. A later copyist mistakenly transcribed the margin note into the text itself and it was preserved in all subsequent copies of the manuscript. The King James Version translators in 1611 A.D., (The King James Version is a Protestant Bible) used a copy of the New Testament that contained these added words. Most Protestant scholars admit that these words are not those of our Lord. But since this text was included by the translators, it is used by Protestants but is, ironically, a Catholic Liturgical prayer.
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ourladyofsorrows.us/QotF/Doxology.htm
 
Semangelof said:
I’m on that path but I have to accept each part in it’s own time. My heart has to believe each piece, otherwise my heart stands against me convicting me of sin.
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Awesome. and wise.

Prayers and blessing on your journey…
 
FrancisBenedict said:
It’s a big church with a lot going on,you don’t have to believe everything that happens.

Why not start with the essentials?

sacred-texts.com/chr/nicene.htm
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I was raised Methodist so I said this every Sunday and believe every bit! I loved saying it like I loved taking the sacrament. It is worded slightly different or condensed I suppose. Methodists also say the “glory be”, or we sing it rather. It’s certainly an easier place to start from.

I love that site and visit it frequently. My favorite stuff is from the legends of the Jews or the Haggadah. Most of it can be discounted but there is a myth about Abraham that I love. It’s doubtfully true but one of the funniest things I have read.

My memory wasn’t so good so I c/ped it.
Abraham concluded early in his life that idol worship was nothing but foolishness. Abraham’s father Terah not only worshipped other gods but he was also an idol-manufacturer. One time, when Terah had to travel, he left Abraham in charge of the shop. As customers would come in wanting to purchase idols, Abraham would ask them how old they were. The people would answer fifty, sixty, or another age. To which Abraham would respond “Isn’t it pathetic that a man of sixty wants to bow down to a one-day-old idol?” At this the customers would hesitate, feel ashamed and leave.2
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        Yet, Abraham still had to prove his point that idols were of no value.  While his father was still traveling Abraham took a hammer and smashed all the idols except for the biggest one.  When his father returned and saw the broken idols he was stunned and asked how this happened?  Abraham calmly replied that an amazing thing happened.  A woman came in with a basket of bread and told him to offer it to the idols.  When Abraham brought it up in front of each of the statues, each of the idols said that they were going to eat first.  Finally the biggest one got up, took the hammer and broke all the others to pieces.
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        Terah, dismayed at the answer, asked Abraham he was trying to put over on him.  Terah exclaimed "Do they [the idols] have minds?"2To which Abraham responded "Listen to what your own mouth is saying?  They have no power at all!  Why worship idols?"3   There was nothing for Terah to say, he had no response.  He knew, deep down, that Abraham was right.  His son had grasped on to a deeper truth.
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Goya said:
In re. the doxology ('For Thine is the Kingdom, the Power and the Glory’) being added post Vat II:

While that may be true, it’s not 'entirely true–that is, it’s not the entire story. Here is an excerpt of a summary (with link):

ourladyofsorrows.us/QotF/Doxology.htm
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Thanks Goya for the info! I knew it was ancient and found in the Didache, but I didn’t know the details of the history. Very helpful.

I guess…that makes it a…Catholic invention! :bigyikes::eek: :D;)
 
Semangelof said:
I was raised Methodist so I said this every Sunday and believe every bit! I loved saying it like I loved taking the sacrament. It is worded slightly different or condensed I suppose. Methodists also say the “glory be”, or we sing it rather. It’s certainly an easier place to start from.

I love that site and visit it frequently. My favorite stuff is from the legends of the Jews or the Haggadah. Most of it can be discounted but there is a myth about Abraham that I love. It’s doubtfully true but one of the funniest things I have read.

My memory wasn’t so good so I c/ped it.
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That was a great story! Thanks for sharing.
 
Theophorus said:
No the author of this piece says, without citation, that Joseph Ratzinger said that it were possible that the church may become a clone of liberal Protestantism. Big Difference
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Thank you Theophorus.

You are right also to point out my need for a citation. The quote can be found in either The Ratzinger Report or Salt of the Earth - one of the first two interview books. I need to find the page.

Thank you to others for responses to which I am only belatedly attending …
 
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