Should The Church Pay Taxes?

[Convert95]

Sitting with a group of friends the other night, I wondered how to counter the claim that “all churches are money-makers and they should pay taxes.” Can anybody point me to some resources that will prepare me should this ever come up again?

 

[Will_B]

All “Non-profit” organizations are except from income tax and from state to state other taxes, such as sales tax.

Most Non-profit organizations do pay property tax or real-estate tax.

While churches seem to make a lot of money, the don’t. After operating expenses which is building maintenance, cooling, heating, etc. then there are salaries for the staff.

Any money left over, if any, is given to the needy >> Food for the poor, etc.

So, what part of the church’s income would you like to see taxed ??

 

[sedonaman]

Sitting with a group of friends the other night, I wondered how to counter the claim that “all churches are money-makers and they should pay taxes.” Can anybody point me to some resources that will prepare me should this ever come up again?

All you would be doing is taxing the members of the church. The First Amendment protects our right to religious freedom. Taxing churches would restrict that right, just like poll taxes restrict the right to vote.

 

[manualman]

Who, exactly, is making the money? In the case of certain mega-churches, the pastor does actually get rather rich. Of course that’s in the form of a salary that he pays taxes on like me or you.

I’d just challenge them to get educated on exactly what churches DO with the money they take in as contributions rather than pontificating from a position of ignorance.

The growing “tax the churches” movement is bent on one thing: silencing those who oppose their lifestyle and morals (or lack thereof).

 

[sedonaman]

All “Non-profit” organizations are except from income tax and from state to state other taxes, such as sales tax.

I used to belong to a flying club, and our motto was, “We’re a non-profit organization, and we’ve got the books to prove it!”

 

[Bill_Martin]

The government should never be permitted to tax religious organizations because the danger is that they can simply raise taxes as a backdoor way of suppressing that religion.

 

[PazzoGrande]

While churches seem to make a lot of money, the don’t. After operating expenses which is building maintenance, cooling, heating, etc. then there are salaries for the staff.

^True.

Priests who don’t have a vow of poverty make around minimum wage where I’m from. Our Bishop doesn’t even have his own home, but just occupies a room in a former seminary next to the diocesan offices and the car he uses is on a free loan from a dealership, and it isn’t even that nice of a car. Our late bishop emeritus also just lived on the grounds of a parish.

Parishes are also usually strapped for cash, according to a former pastor I know and an office manager for another parish. Author John Allen Jr wrote about how even Cardinals who head dicasteries make little and most people who work in the Vatican do it as a second job that pays less. That doesn’t relate to the US tax codes, but I’m just saying, from the Vatican to the local parish, they don’t really have money.

At least in the US, nobody joins the priesthood to make money. Just saying, people like to say that the Church should be taxed and they tend to think it’s got super-rich cash reserves. It doesn’t.

 

[sedonaman]

… At least in the US, nobody joins the priesthood to make money. …

Our last pastor gave a homily about a diocesan meeting for priests he went to. One priest said to him, “Do you know we make only 37 cents and hour?” He replied, “I didn’t go into it for the money.”

 

[PazzoGrande]

Our last pastor gave a homily about a diocesan meeting for priests he went to. One priest said to him, “Do you know we make only 37 cents and hour?” He replied, “I didn’t go into it for the money.”

Yikes.

You know you don’t need to be taxed when you could make more money finding coins on sidewalks.

 

[grasscutter]

In Canada, every part of the Church that isn’t directly related to Worship is taxed. (Property tax, that is.) This would include: the rectory, kitchen, hall, meeting rooms, library, etc. Oddly enough, a lot of Canadians don’t know this.

 

[PazzoGrande]

In Canada, every part of the Church that isn’t directly related to Worship is taxed. (Property tax, that is.) This would include: the rectory, kitchen, hall, meeting rooms, library, etc. Oddly enough, a lot of Canadians don’t know this.

That’s interesting. Do you find that it limits what the Church in Canada can do then since it presumably would have less money to go around than the American counterpart?

 

[Swiss_Guy]

No, because the state has a right to recognize the Church of Christ. If anything, the government should give money (“taxes”) to the Church. Of course, this argument won’t work if the people you are talking to aren’t Catholic.

 

[Convert95]

Thanks everybody, for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[grasscutter]

That’s interesting. Do you find that it limits what the Church in Canada can do then since it presumably would have less money to go around than the American counterpart?

I haven’t noticed. But then, I only have my own experience here. We recently had a second collection, by the request of the Canadian Bishops, to support the drought and famine in a part of Africa. Every week, in our bulletin, there is table that states the expenses and a table that states the collection. We generally meet the expenses and I was heartened to see what our little city was also able to contribute to the second collection! So, I guess because it is all we know, we just manage.

Oh, and the first Sunday of every month calls for a donation to Mary’s pantry. This consists of food and other items for a home-delivered food bank our parish offers. The medium income in the city I live in isn’t a lot and every first Sunday their are many items offered.

 

[DaveBj]

There is an interesting aspect in the church-tax issue that is not often mentioned – if the tax exemption on religious organizations were to be lifted, the prohibition of political activity by those religious organizations would also have to be lifted. By no means am I saying that the tax exemptions should be revoked and that churches should be taxed, but it would be an interesting change to politics.

 

[Joe_5859]

There have been some good responses already. Certainly, taxing churches makes it very easy for a government to put the squeeze on any religious entity it chooses to. That would be disasterous.

Another point to consider is why non-profits don’t get taxed. Presumably, they are performing a service to the greater society that the government no no longer has to spend tax money on. A non-profit organization is basically saving the government money. For them to tax non-profits just to turn around and have to give them federal grants would be redundant and silly.

I think people just make this argument because they’re upset with the Church and they somehow think the Church is getting a free pass and raking in money hand over fist. That is a prevalent idea, but it is false.

 

[Porknpie]

Sitting with a group of friends the other night, I wondered how to counter the claim that “all churches are money-makers and they should pay taxes.” Can anybody point me to some resources that will prepare me should this ever come up again?

Ask your friends what does the Catholic church do with the money it makes? Suggest contacting your diocese as they will have available a statement of use showing where the money collected is being spent…maintaining and building churches, running schools, religious education, salaries, feeding the poor, helping the needy in various ways, etc. The word “money maker” needs to be defined. The Catholic church does collect money (on money that generally has been taxed at least once) and spend money, it does not build shopping malls.

 

[Godfollower]

If non-religious non-profits are exempt from tax, then why shouldn’t religious non-profits be exempt? Do they think the government should say it’s okay to be tax-exempt unless you’re religious in nature? In the U.S., that could easily run afoul of the First Amendment.

On the other hand, there’s some basis for the argument that you don’t want to make any entity exempt from taxes; in such a scenario, why not include religious organizations?

 

[Jerry111]

With increased calls from liberals for the IRS to lift the Catholic Church’s tax exempt status for public opposition to the HHS Mandate, I recently did a little research on the regulations for 501(c) 3 non-for-profit organizations. What I found seems incredible

America’s Churches never were subject to taxation! From founding of the country and past the institution of the first permanent Income Tax in 1913, churches were simply not taxed

In 1954, Senator Lyndon Johnson, a strident opponent of the Catholic Church, proposed legislation offering religious institutions the “opportunity” to acquire 501(c) 3 status in exchange for agreeing to refrain from engaging in most political activity. As LBJ later admitted, his intention was to “eliminate the significant influence the church has always had on public policy”

It was a trap, and for whatever reason, America’s clergy agreed to surrender their First Amendment rights to avoid paying taxes they had never been required to pay!

Here is an article I posted in one of our blogs that goes into greater detail and calls for America’s Churches to renounce their 501(c) 3 status

radiantcross.org/Christian-Conservative-Spectator/2012/08/02/americas-churches-and-the-501c-3-trap/

 

[DaveBj]

With increased calls from liberals for the IRS to lift the Catholic Church’s tax exempt status for public opposition to the HHS Mandate, I recently did a little research on the regulations for 501(c) 3 non-for-profit organizations. What I found seems incredible

America’s Churches never were subject to taxation! From founding of the country and past the institution of the first permanent Income Tax in 1913, churches were simply not taxed

In 1954, Senator Lyndon Johnson, a strident opponent of the Catholic Church, proposed legislation offering religious institutions the “opportunity” to acquire 501(c) 3 status in exchange for agreeing to refrain from engaging in most political activity. As LBJ later admitted, his intention was to “eliminate the significant influence the church has always had on public policy”

It was a trap, and for whatever reason, America’s clergy agreed to surrender their First Amendment rights to avoid paying taxes they had never been required to pay!

Here is an article I posted in one of our blogs that goes into greater detail and calls for America’s Churches to renounce their 501(c) 3 status

radiantcross.org/Christian-Conservative-Spectator/2012/08/02/americas-churches-and-the-501c-3-trap/

Ver-r-r-ry interesting! Thanks.