Should The Church Pay Taxes?

[Crescentinus]

All “Non-profit” organizations are except from income tax and from state to state other taxes, such as sales tax.

Most Non-profit organizations do pay property tax or real-estate tax.

While churches seem to make a lot of money, the don’t. After operating expenses which is building maintenance, cooling, heating, etc. then there are salaries for the staff.

Any money left over, if any, is given to the needy >> Food for the poor, etc.

So, what part of the church’s income would you like to see taxed ??

This, is perfect for destroying claims by the Occupiers!

 

[mangy_dog]

Sitting with a group of friends the other night, I wondered how to counter the claim that “all churches are money-makers and they should pay taxes.” Can anybody point me to some resources that will prepare me should this ever come up again?

Even if this comes to pass- all the pope has to do is send Bishop Cardinal Bertone down to the river and tell him to grab the first fish he can get his hands on, reach in it’s mouth and remove the gold or silver coins therein and pay the Cesar.

It won’t stop the triumph of the Sacred and Immaculate Hearts.

 

[Kenny_Kamel]

Sitting with a group of friends the other night, I wondered how to counter the claim that “all churches are money-makers and they should pay taxes.” Can anybody point me to some resources that will prepare me should this ever come up again?

You should ask WHY they think a Church should be taxed. I have had several discussions with people who think taxes are good and/or a solution to any number of issues, instead of arguing with them about who or what should be taxed and to what extent I try to find the root cause of why they believe taxes should be levied in the first place.

I’m not against taxation, don’t get me wrong, but it seems that many people I come across just want to make blanket statements about taxes without any thought behind them. Tax the Church, tax the wealthy, tax the corporations, tax tax tax! What purpose do these excess taxes serve? Would they actually be used in a worthwhile manner (NO and I’d likely bury anyone in this arguement)? Why should we be giving government any more money when they’ve proven that all they will do is waste it and coerce us into more taxation?

 

[JIB]

I think the Church should pay as much in taxes as I think anyone else should pay. None.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Convert95,

I am honestly conflicted on this issue. First, possibly the most Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court, John Marshall, said, “The power to tax is the power to destroy” Government is not totally either honeest or honorable…

Ah, but the second part is really a straight forward criticism - I think over the years, some of the US hierarchy has compromised the message of Christ because of fear of losing their tax exempt status if they spoke out on political matters. Let’s be candid - I just can’t imagine Christ seeking out a tax free position from which to preach His Message. Serioulsy, look how John the Baptist criticized King Herod. Christ challenged the Jewish leaders - but still paid the Temple Tax.

Make no mistake about it - if the Catholic Church were taxed there would be many major changes in what we have come to expect - but, I submit, the message of Christ’s salvation through the Catholic Church will not be lost. Besides,while I do not know about the rest of Europs, German church pay taxes to the German government.

I do not see this issue as the death of Catholicism in the US.

God bless

Sitting with a group of friends the other night, I wondered how to counter the claim that “all churches are money-makers and they should pay taxes.” Can anybody point me to some resources that will prepare me should this ever come up again?

 

[iloveangels]

The government should never be permitted to tax religious organizations because the danger is that they can simply raise taxes as a backdoor way of suppressing that religion.

This is a very good point.

 

[GratefulFred]

The more a government can tax, the more a government can control.

The more government control there is, the less Freedom we have to make our own way.

America was founded on the great principle of FREEDOM OF RELIGION. Such Freedom requires no, or very little, government control - no, or very little, government taxation. Building codes and safety codes are necessary. Employee income taxes are acceptable.

Religion, when used properly, is all about our relationship with God. Once we have THAT straight, we are then ready to partake in governing society. Religion need not, and should not, campaign for particular candidates.

However, it IS religion’s duty to constantly teach us the demands and LIMITS of moral law set down for us by God. And it is our duty to God to pay attention to our religious training and vote our conscience accordingly.

 

[iloveangels]

The more a government can tax, the more a government can control.

The more government control there is, the less Freedom we have to make our own way.

America was founded on the great principle of FREEDOM OF RELIGION. Such Freedom requires no, or very little, government control - no, or very little, government taxation. Building codes and safety codes are necessary. Employee income taxes are acceptable.

Religion, when used properly, is all about our relationship with God. Once we have THAT straight, we are then ready to partake in governing society. Religion need not, and should not, campaign for particular candidates.

However, it IS religion’s duty to constantly teach us the demands and LIMITS of moral law set down for us by God. And it is our duty to God to pay attention to our religious training and vote our conscience accordingly.

Yes, but even if the government goes hog wild because a lot of people go hog wild, the government can’t be allowed to take over our religious organizations like the Catholic Church.

 

[GratefulFred]

Yes, but even if the government goes hog wild because a lot of people go hog wild, the government can’t be allowed to take over our religious organizations like the Catholic Church.

Agreed. We have elections every two to fours years to vote the rascals out. And usually we have the Courts to control government gone wild.

I believe America was founded on CHRISTAIN principles that allowed the various religions to exist in peace without fear of being closed down or killed as was common the prior 250 years in Europe.

In the past 100 years (socialism and communism, etc), perhaps the past 50 years (drugs, sex, rock-n-roll, the Pill, the I/ME generation, etc), it seems that traditional - 6,000 years - Judeo-Christian principles are being pushed aside. Somehow, too many of us vote as if our Christian principles no longer matter.

We get the government the majority vote for. When we give up our Christian principles by voting as if those principles do not matter, we get a government that realizes it just may be able to run rough shod over religious organizations.

 

[Musikero31]

So is there any document that teaches this? My friends in the Philippines are going gaga over the fact that they found out that the Catholic Church of the Philippines has lots of money in the bank and also stocks, and they don’t even pay taxes.

 

[Brendan]

There is one other big factor, if the State has the right to compel taxes from the Church, that means that there is no separation of Church and State.

Thus the corollary would be that the Church has the right to compel tithes from the State.

I wonder how many are in favor of that?

 

[mikekle]

I believe one of the other posters was wrong about mega church pastors paying tax on their ‘salary’. I may be wrong, but from what I understand, Joel Olsteen and others like him do not pay income, FICA, SS, etc tax on their salary.

The way it was explained to me awhile back, was their salary comes from donations, and since they have very large congregations, of course the pastor is going to become very very wealthy, but taxing donations (their salary) would not be allowed, same thing as taxing the church itself…right?

 

[Brendan]

I believe one of the other posters was wrong about mega church pastors paying tax on their ‘salary’. I may be wrong, but from what I understand, Joel Olsteen and others like him do not pay income, FICA, SS, etc tax on their salary.

The way it was explained to me awhile back, was their salary comes from donations, and since they have very large congregations, of course the pastor is going to become very very wealthy, but taxing donations (their salary) would not be allowed, same thing as taxing the church itself…right?

That would be incorrect.

A salary is a salary, even if it comes from donations. All clergy are supposed to report their income, and pay taxes on it just as any other person would be required to.

What is NOT taxed, is the property owned by the church, and that does include ‘parsonages’ (the ‘tax’ term for where the clergy call home, in Catholic terms, the rectory)

Nor does the church pay taxes on the donations that it receives. In this regard, they are no different than any charitable organization.

 

[DaveBj]

That would be incorrect.

A salary is a salary, even if it comes from donations. All clergy are supposed to report their income, and pay taxes on it just as any other person would be required to.

What is NOT taxed, is the property owned by the church, and that does include ‘parsonages’ (the ‘tax’ term for where the clergy call home, in Catholic terms, the rectory)

Nor does the church pay taxes on the donations that it receives. In this regard, they are no different than any charitable organization.

This is something that seems to totally escape the tax-the-church crowd – any changes of this kind in tax legislation would have to apply across the board to all charitable organizations, not just churches. The result would be to drive many of them out of business, and who would pick up the work that they do? I’m guessing, not the tax-the-church crowd

 

[Viki63]

Our church is in a poorer part of a large city, and usually collects about $2000 short of operating expenses every Sunday. I think in the last 6 months they’ve come out even about twice.
They have fund raisers when new windows or a new boiler is needed.
And only 200 out of 1100 families contribute to the Diocesan fund for Catholic services.

.

 

[OU812]

How about those companies that rack in billions, are supposed to pay millions, but get off the hook because of a few hundred thousand that they pay as “contributions,” which is only a fraction of what they still have to pay?

The same ones who spout that they are investing so much money stateside to keep things within the U.S., and it still turns out that it’s a drop in the bucket when you consider what they invest globally. But it’s okay. Because that initial investment can then be masqueraded and paraded as a basis for a tax break.

 

[Rau]

Sitting with a group of friends the other night, I wondered how to counter the claim that “all churches are money-makers and they should pay taxes.” Can anybody point me to some resources that will prepare me should this ever come up again?

To make the Church/Charities taxable should still see them pay no tax. All the earnings ought, in principle, to be offset by a tax deduction arising from the disposition of the money -eg. to pay salaries, charitable operations, etc. No doubt there’d be some arguments about building funds and the like which accumulate before being used, earnings on investments that accumulate, and so forth. Ultimately, the government accept that these entities make money to spend it, over time, on charitable and society-improving works, and not for the personal enrichment of the “owners”.

Churches/charities are thus deemed not required to submit tax returns really as a short-cut to avoid the wasted effort of tax returns. Such organisations are generally subject to various levels of supervision to confirm that their activities are consistent with the status they’ve been granted.

 

[Rau]

…Nor does the church pay taxes on the donations that it receives. In this regard, they are no different than any charitable organization.

This might be called “revenue”. It is not normally taxed in any organisation - what is taxed is the revenue **minus **the allowable deductions. Arguably, 100% of the revenue is dispersed in a manner (be it in the current year, or subsequently) which is deductible.

 

[Rau]

Our church is in a poorer part of a large city, and usually collects about $2000 short of operating expenses every Sunday. I think in the last 6 months they’ve come out even about twice.
They have fund raisers when new windows or a new boiler is needed.
And only 200 out of 1100 families contribute to the Diocesan fund for Catholic services.

Generally, the diocese has a process for distributing collections for parish operations, priest stipend, etc. from the wealthier parishes to the poorer.

 

[GeauxLSU]

There is an interesting aspect in the church-tax issue that is not often mentioned – if the tax exemption on religious organizations were to be lifted, the prohibition of political activity by those religious organizations would also have to be lifted. By no means am I saying that the tax exemptions should be revoked and that churches should be taxed, but it would be an interesting change to politics.

Which is exactly why I’m of two minds on the subject. On one hand, lift the shackles off the pulpit. On the other, the government is the WORST administrator of charitable funds possible. So why give them more and those who efficiently administer them less?
I don’t know the ‘right’ answer. If a congregation (regardless of denomination) is not going to be good and watchful stewards of their money, that’s up to them I suppose.