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GRATEFULONEjim
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It is working extremely well in the Diocese of Buffalo.
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Brendan
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“Let the little children come onto me…but for Gosh sakes, keep them away from the Holy Spirit until they have completed all their catechetical classwork” #ThingsChristneversaid
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Hopey
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We are supposed to, parents, be able to do that right now. A parent if they feel their child isn’t ready, capable, etc can ask for the sacrament(s) be delayed. It is to work the other way also. If a child is younger than what is policy for diocese, but meets requirement and has desire for it, they can petition/ask for it early.
What I have seen is that most do not have a great understanding of their faith, have made a promise to raise their children catholic, were told the classes are mandatory and thus, you have what we have- attending classes for the sacraments.
There is nothing wrong with a parish having classes at certain times - 2nd grd etc. the problem comes in the failure to consider the child’s desire if it is outside of what the norm is set up for diocese.
Or, that is my personal experience.
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Hopey
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Have you found that those who make it to jr/sr age equal those who started making their first holy communion? If the class was say 50 for FHC, by the time they make it to Confirmation prep, do you have at least 90%of the class? If not, why?
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GRATEFULONEjim
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We do. The only reason it is not 100% is that parents enroll their children in the Confirmation Class of the neighboring Rochester Diocese which allows Confirmation in 8th grade. This is to “free up” Sunday for the "necessary sporting tournaments (soccer, wrestling, football, swimming…etc.) which are a “must do” in today’s culture. Our parish has now stopped this and require that the entire family register in the neighboring diocese if they wish, but no more pick and choose. Funny thing…Once those students receive the Sacrament in Rochester…They are gone! The indwelling of the Holy Spirit at work ???
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Hopey
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If they have to register there and break from parish then it would stand to reason they are ‘gone’ later, right? We had something similar only we were not allowed to participate in any youth activities, c yo, etc. I do understand to a degree that some may choose that route for convenience. But you should see the fruits, them carrying out in their daily lives - such as those who go into politics will be fighting the scourges of evil in society like abortion. They should be defending marriage too, right?
Do you see the fruits in all areas or is it measures by how many volunteer at the parish later on?
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GRATEFULONEjim
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Oh Yes…I see our great Catholic leadership in our Nation defending these positions. Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Andrew Coumo. They are doing a fantastic job of upholding their Catholic Faith in the public square.:banghead: Yes we do see the fruits of this in the choices of Universities our graduates attend and the choices they are making for careers.
Well catechized youth make good strong Catholics. Not what we have seen out of the last few decades. It’s time to open our eyes and hearts and put God first again in our lives. Or is it more important the kids have time for their sports on Sunday’s???
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Hopey
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Those you have listed are prime examples of the age of living your faith privately. Very frustrating indeed.
Maybe those parents are not choosing the sacraments early for the best reasons. Maybe some are.
If I were in that position, or if I ever am, I hope to respect the decision of the parents and be sure they are included and invited no matter if I don’t agree w their decision. IOW, I would not make them choose a parish. They would belong to my parish.
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Hopey
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Btw, if your retention rate is that high, it is to be applauded. I am not sure it is at 30% where I am. I pray that most moved but seeing that some adults are now showing up to be confirmed at the Easter vigil, as they are adults, makes me think they just stopped or didn’t have enough service hours etc.
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GRATEFULONEjim
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Respect the wishes of the parents who believe that it in their child’s best interest as a Catholic to forgo continued catechesis, to NOT keep the Lord’s Day Holy, all in the name of a much more important soccer tournament. NO…It is time for the Church to stop condoning and allowing this and teach what it is to be a Catholic. One who OBEDIENTLY follows all the teachings of the Church.
I really do understand what the Church teaches on the Sacrament of Confirmation, and I do see where anyone would want the fullness of the Rites of Initiation to be relayed to their children at the earliest age…Who wouldn’t want that for their child.
We also need to take off the Rose colored eyeglasses. The Catholic Church in this country is just a shell. We have been co-opted by so called Catholics in name only who really have no interest in truly putting God first in their lives anymore. The parishes go along with it because they need the money coming in. Most want the empty, make me feel good type of worship you get at any protestant denomination cropped up on every street corner.
We have lost the Holy…We have lost the reverence due God… Personally I’m tired of Catholics in this country sidestepping the issues the Church has. Americans don’t want to be obedient. They want God on their terms. This has infiltrated and corrupted the very nature of the Catholic Churches foundation in this country.
The Catholic Church is desperately in need of a wake up call. Pastors and bishops need to start getting in the face of their congregations and relay the message that the fun and games have come to an end. This is the way it IS GOING TO BE!!! You will do XYZ!!! If you are not obedient then let me walk you by the hand to the nearest protestant church and do your bidding there.
Will the Catholic Church become smaller??? Absolutely!!! But what comes out of the ashes will truly be Catholic.
Rant complete.
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babochka
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I don’t disagree with your rant at all! I just disagree that the Sacrament should be withheld to accomplish the goal of better Catechesis.
If your entire diocese has a 90% retention rate between 1st Communion in 2nd Grade in High School Confirmation, you’re doing something right. If you are sending such strong Catholics into the world, in the next generation, you shouldn’t need to use the Sacrament as a carrot because the upcoming generation of parents (graduates of your current faith formation) will be a different sort of Catholic and will understand that faith formation is a lifelong process.
I wonder how many of your Confirmation candidates, if asked, would say that Confirmation is them making an adult commitment to the church. I know that you’re teaching them what Confirmation is in your program, but the reality is that you’re sending a mixed message. Confirmation has to be earned in your diocese. I know this from my own experience. I was chrismated as as infant, but went to Catholic school, where my classmates were confirmed in 8th grade. I knew that I had already received the sacrament and did not receive it again, but I still came away from it with the misconception that is so rampant, that Confirmation is making an adult commitment to the faith. I knew that Confirmation was about completing one’s Baptism and receiving the gifts of the Holy Spirit, but I believed that the “adult commitment” component was also part of the essential nature of the sacrament.
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jmcrae
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I agree with this.
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petronus
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The Sacrament of Confirmation should be adminstered at the same time as the Sacrament of Baptism .
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Hopey
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I hear your frustration. As tempting as it may be to encourage people to leave who are not attending Mass as they should, we can’t do that. I have experienced the heavy hand of ’ you do xyz or get out’ and it leaves no room for those who are trying to grow in holiness any too
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A person’s choice is theirs whether it is good or bad. We have had it set up like yours here and when they finish, we don’t see them again till maybe they marry. Sometimes not even then.
It has been pointed out that asking those we deem nominal to leave as a sin.
Serious if it comes from a priest. Dr Peters spoke of this after Fr Pavone’s letter to Pelosi. He did not conclude that is what Fr Pavone was doing, but cautioned against inviting people out of the church for whatever reason.
canonlawblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/21/did-fr-pavone-call-on-nancy-pelosi-to-renounce-the-catholic-faith/
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WetCatechumen
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No. Confirmation is not an adult’s sacrament. Confirmation is a sacrament for Christians.
Why is the Latin Church so recalcitrant on this? I don’t mind the bishops retaining the right to chrismate, but my goodness, we are hemorrhaging youth. They need the strength of the Holy Spirit from their infancy - not begrudgingly given in high school to let them “graduate” from the Catholic faith.
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Lapey
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AMEN! We are depriving our little ones the grace of the sacrament to uphold our idea of what they need, adulthood and/or maturity. They need God’s grace, not limitations placed on them by our own ideas.
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TimothyH
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Double Amen.
I asked the pastor of my Church if I could dispense with all this foolishness, heyperactivity really, in preparation leading up to confirmation for 8th graders. My belief is that they don’t need more hyperactivity - plays and reports and retreats - but less. I asked Father if I could instead take her to a monastery and teach her to pray, to hae the Cistercians teach her to seek unity with God in prayer.
Unity with God is what they need. Friendship and intimacy with God is what they need.
-Tim-
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TimothyH
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EasterJoy
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The problem I see is not so much that the age is wrong–although younger would certainly be OK and might be preferable because the graces are needed more now that innocence does not last as long as it used to–but that the preparation could often be better. You can give a child a choice about whether they will go to college without giving them a choice about whether or not they’re going to prepare for college. Since confirmation is vital and college isn’t always necessary, how much more should it be true that no child ought to graduate from a Catholic grade school without the educational preparation for confirmation–and I mean a preparation as rigorous as that they get to prepare them for a college preparatory high school. Religion needs to return to being a more rigorous academic subject. IOW, I mean “no child”, whether or not they are Catholic! (Both Catholics and non-Catholics who come to a Catholic high school ought to be tested for religious knowledge just as they are tested for math, and placed in remedial classes, if that is warranted.)
But yes, since young Catholics cannot often remain innocent for as long as they once could, they need to be rigorously prepared for that, including giving them confirmation as soon as they are properly educated and disposed, rather than waiting.
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Phemie
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Confirmation at the age of 7 should not mean that religious instruction is over. We have turned Confirmation into a graduation from religious ed over the years but that idea CAN be reversed. I was confirmed in grade 2 at the age of 7. We still had years of catechesis ahead of us in school and were not expected to be ‘done’ with RE until we graduated from high school.
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