Should the Confirmation age be lowered?

[GRATEFULONEjim]

They have a canonical right to choose Confirmation between ages 7 and 16 right now. The theological implications of a later age that you’re promoting do not have any history in Catholic theology. No matter what age is chosen, the theology of the sacrament being a sealing of Baptism and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit remains the same.

You are also forgetting that a pastor may deny Confirmation if he believes the Confirmand is ill prepared. This is another reason that receiving the Sacrament at a later age is of benefit.

We do agree on the theology of the Sacrament though…I had stated that in a previous post.

 

[UncleBill]

I’m putting the cart before the horse ??? I’m just following the direction of my Diocese that Confirms in 11th grade. I faithfully stand by their direction and decision on the matter.
Really it’s as simple as that.

No you are justifying the mistake your diocese has made. Confirmation of not a Rite of Passage…I’m sure your bishop would agree (well maybe not that sure).

 

[UncleBill]

You are also forgetting that a pastor may deny Confirmation if he believes the Confirmand is ill prepared. This is another reason that receiving the Sacrament at a later age is of benefit.

We do agree on the theology of the Sacrament though…I had stated that in a previous post.

Its time the Western Church reclaims its very early tradition and restore confirmation to its proper place…along with baptism…in infancy. If they insist on a Rite of passage give them a Bar Mitzvah already! Oye vey!

 

[Brendan_64]

The child after completion of 3rd Grade RE certainly has a firm grasp on the Paschal Mystery and the sacrifice of Jesus dying on the cross, and what the Eucharist truly is

So they understand the Sacrament as the meeting of the divine and the profane via the priest. How this relates to the nature of Christ on Earth as being fully human and fully divine? They understand that the Sacrament is not simply a memorial, but is actually Calvary taking place right before their eyes? They have a good understanding of transubstantiation and would be able to explain how this differs from the concept of consubstantiation, and how this explains different views of the Eucharist between Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans etc?

If they have a good grasp of all this, and more, then you really have a very gifted bunch of 7 and 8 year olds.

 

[GRATEFULONEjim]

So they understand the Sacrament as the meeting of the divine and the profane via the priest. How this relates to the nature of Christ on Earth as being fully human and fully divine? They understand that the Sacrament is not simply a memorial, but is actually Calvary taking place right before their eyes? They have a good understanding of transubstantiation and would be able to explain how this differs from the concept of consubstantiation, and how this explains different views of the Eucharist between Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans etc?

If they have a good grasp of all this, and more, then you really have a very gifted bunch of 7 and 8 year olds.

Yes, they are well prepared. They must also pass a Diocesan assessment in order to receive the Sacrament. If they do not understand, they are held back and repeat next year. We are catechizing good Catholics that are strong in their faith.

 

[CDB1718]

You are also forgetting that a pastor may deny Confirmation if he believes the Confirmand is ill prepared. This is another reason that receiving the Sacrament at a later age is of benefit.

We do agree on the theology of the Sacrament though…I had stated that in a previous post.

What is “ill-prepared” is not defined for Confirmation. It is defined for the Eucharist. The current benchmark used in the Roman Rite is that the person is able to distinguish the Eucharist from ordinary bread in some way, including in those with special needs a solemness or other behavioral change that distinguishes the Eucharist from a loaf of bread. They don’t even have to be able to explain it verbally, just live it. The norm for Confirmation is the same age so the benchmark for what is required from the confirmand cannot be much different.

This benchmark takes 15 minutes of instruction if it is supported by a living faith life. The pastor’s obligation to provide catechesis is not the same as the minister’s obligation to ensure the person being presented is properly disposed. There’s no expectation that the person have adult reasoning or advanced maturity or knowledge before receiving the sacraments. To put tests and retreats and service hours between a person seeking the sacraments and the sacraments is to place human obstacles between the person and the Lord and to promote a false theology that a person earns sacramental grace through Gnostic knowledge or Pelagic action.

Can. 843
§1 Sacred ministers may not deny the sacraments to those who opportunely ask for them, are properly disposed and are not prohibited by law from receiving them.
§2 According to their respective offices in the Church, both pastors of souls and all other members of Christ’s faithful have a duty to ensure that those who ask for the sacraments are prepared for their reception. This should be done through proper evangelization and catechetical instruction, in accordance with the norms laid down by the competent authority.

Can. 889
§2 Apart from the danger of death, to receive confirmation lawfully a person who has the use of reason must be suitably instructed, properly disposed and able to renew the baptismal promises.

Can. 891
The sacrament of confirmation is to be conferred on the faithful at about the age of discretion, unless the Episcopal Conference has decided on a different age, or there is a danger of death or, in the judgment of the minister, a grave reason suggests otherwise.

 

[Hopey]

Thanks CD.
Re Can 891 what was submitted and approved for US bishops was age of descretion to about 16.
That is what was submitted by us and approved.
I still think it should be lowered esp to root out theology problems re the sacrament that still exists.

 

[GRATEFULONEjim]

What is “ill-prepared” is not defined for Confirmation. It is defined for the Eucharist. The current benchmark used in the Roman Rite is that the person is able to distinguish the Eucharist from ordinary bread in some way, including in those with special needs a solemness or other behavioral change that distinguishes the Eucharist from a loaf of bread. They don’t even have to be able to explain it verbally, just live it. The norm for Confirmation is the same age so the benchmark for what is required from the confirmand cannot be much different.

This benchmark takes 15 minutes of instruction if it is supported by a living faith life. The pastor’s obligation to provide catechesis is not the same as the minister’s obligation to ensure the person being presented is properly disposed. There’s no expectation that the person have adult reasoning or advanced maturity or knowledge before receiving the sacraments. To put tests and retreats and service hours between a person seeking the sacraments and the sacraments is to place human obstacles between the person and the Lord and to promote a false theology that a person earns sacramental grace through Gnostic knowledge or Pelagic action.

Can. 843
§1 Sacred ministers may not deny the sacraments to those who opportunely ask for them, are properly disposed and are not prohibited by law from receiving them.
§2 According to their respective offices in the Church, both pastors of souls and all other members of Christ’s faithful have a duty to ensure that those who ask for the sacraments are prepared for their reception. This should be done through proper evangelization and catechetical instruction, in accordance with the norms laid down by the competent authority.

Can. 889
§2 Apart from the danger of death, to receive confirmation lawfully a person who has the use of reason must be suitably instructed, properly disposed and able to renew the baptismal promises.

Can. 891
The sacrament of confirmation is to be conferred on the faithful at about the age of discretion, unless the Episcopal Conference has decided on a different age, or there is a danger of death or, in the judgment of the minister, a grave reason suggests otherwise.

Your post contradicts itself.

 

[CDB1718]

Thanks CD.
Re Can 891 what was submitted and approved for US bishops was age of descretion to about 16.
That is what was submitted by us and approved.
I still think it should be lowered esp to root out theology problems re the sacrament that still exists.

Your post contradicts itself.

It is worth noting that age of discretion is the normative age in the Latin rite, but it is not a requirement. Roman Catholic babies are to receive Confirmation if they are in danger of death. If they haven’t reached the age of discretion, there is no requirement for catechesis. When the parish and parents begin to have the responsibility of catechesis, it is to “awaken a sense of belonging,” or the beginning of such a journey, not the graduation point to ratify its presence.

There’s no expectation that the person have adult reasoning or advanced maturity or knowledge before receiving the sacraments. The Church is clear that she assumes they’re around age 7 and all of the canons and instructions should be read with that in mind.

Catechism
1307 The Latin tradition gives “the age of discretion” as the reference point for receiving
Confirmation. But in danger of death children should be confirmed even if they have
not yet attained the age of discretion.

1308 Although Confirmation is sometimes called the “sacrament of Christian maturity,”
we must not confuse adult faith with the adult age of natural growth, nor forget that
the baptismal grace is a grace of free, unmerited election and does not need
“ratification” to become effective. St. Thomas reminds us of this:

Age of body does not determine age of soul. Even in childhood man can attain spiritual
maturity: as the book of Wisdom says: “For old age is not honored for length of time, or
measured by number of years.” Many children, through the strength of the Holy Spirit
they have received, have bravely fought for Christ even to the shedding of their
blood.

1309 Preparation for Confirmation should aim at leading the Christian toward a more
intimate union with Christ and a more lively familiarity with the Holy Spirit - his
actions, his gifts, and his biddings - in order to be more capable of assuming the
apostolic responsibilities of Christian life. To this end catechesis for Confirmation
should strive to awaken a sense of belonging to the Church of Jesus Christ, the
universal Church as well as the parish community. The latter bears special
responsibility for the preparation of confirmands.

 

[Brendan_64]

Yes, they are well prepared. They must also pass a Diocesan assessment in order to receive the Sacrament. If they do not understand, they are held back and repeat next year. We are catechizing good Catholics that are strong in their faith.

There are an awful lot of adult Catholics who don’t understand a lot of that.

What would you do with a Downs Syndrome child? Hold them back because they don’t understand all of that? What if they are simply intellectually unable to grasp that, ever? Would they be denied the Eucharist for the rest of their life?

A person doesn’t need to know all of that in order to take their first Holy Communion. All they need to know is that what they are receiving is special and is from God. A person doesn’t have to pass a ‘Catechism test’ in order to receive God’s Grace.

 

[GRATEFULONEjim]

There are an awful lot of adult Catholics who don’t understand a lot of that.

And that is truly pathetic!!!

That’s what we are trying to change.

We actually teach Catholicism to our youth. It’s not just the “Jesus loves you” approach and here’s your Sacrament.

 

[CDB1718]

There are an awful lot of adult Catholics who don’t understand a lot of that.

It is praise-worthy that the catechesis is so strong in their diocese!

It isn’t linked to sacramental preparedness, though. To do so is to import Lutheran theology into the Catholic Church, making Confirmation non-sacramental.

Here are Wiki references to the Lutheran theology of Konfirmation:
"For Roman Catholics, Confirmation is a sacrament that “confirms” or “strengthens” (the original meaning of the word “confirm”) the grace of Baptism, by conferring an increase and deepening of that grace.

For some other Christians the ceremony of Confirmation is a matter not of “being confirmed” but of “confirming” the baptismal vows taken on one’s behalf when an infant. This is the essential significance of the Lutheran non-sacramental ceremony called in German “Konfirmation,” but in English “affirmation of baptism.”

Confirmation in the Lutheran Church is a public profession of faith prepared for by long and careful instruction. In English, it is called “affirmation of baptism”, and is a mature and public profession of the faith which “marks the completion of the congregation’s program of confirmation ministry”.

 

[babochka]

And that is truly pathetic!!!

That’s what we are trying to change.

We actually teach Catholicism to our youth. It’s not just the “Jesus loves you” approach and here’s your Sacrament.

By teaching them that Confirmation is their adult acceptance of the faith and they need to have an adult understanding of the faith in order to receive the sacrament, which is contrary to the teaching of the church?

I truly appreciate the efforts of your bishop to improve catechesis in your diocese and in our church. I just think that this is a misguided approach to the sacrament.

 

[tafan]

We Baptize infants because that is what Jesus told us to do. The child after completion of 3rd Grade RE certainly has a firm grasp on the Paschal Mystery and the sacrifice of Jesus dying on the cross, and what the Eucharist truly is. The whole years coursework is based on this.

And yes Confirmation should be considered the “sending off point, the fruition of childhood catechesis” for the newly Confirmed to proudly and confidently go out and begin to evangelize as we are all called to do through our Baptism.

Why should we “trivialize” such an important Sacrament?

This idea that confirmation is a “sending off point, the fruition of childhood catechesis” sounds awfully sweet, but I find nothing of the sort in the Catechism. I think that placing our own definition on a sacrament, as opposed to the Church’s, would be the supreme example of trivializing.

I did find the following in the Catechism:

1308 Although Confirmation is sometimes called the “sacrament of Christian maturity,” we must not confuse adult faith with the adult age of natural growth, nor forget that the baptismal grace is a grace of free, unmerited election and does not need “ratification” to become effective. St. Thomas reminds us of this:

Age of body does not determine age of soul. Even in childhood man can attain spiritual maturity: as the book of Wisdom says: "For old age is not honored for length of time, or measured by number of years. "Many children, through the strength of the Holy Spirit they have received, have bravely fought for Christ even to the shedding of their blood.124

Also from Canon law:

Can. 889 §1. Every baptized person not yet confirmed and only such a person is capable of receiving confirmation.

§2. To receive confirmation licitly outside the danger of death requires that a person who has the use of reason be suitably instructed, properly disposed, and able to renew the baptismal promises.

Can. 890 The faithful are obliged to receive this sacrament at the proper time. Parents and pastors of souls, especially pastors of parishes, are to take care that the faithful are properly instructed to receive the sacrament and come to it at the appropriate time.

Can. 891 The sacrament of confirmation is to be conferred on the faithful at about the age of discretion unless the conference of bishops has determined another age, or there is danger of death, or in the judgment of the minister a grave cause suggests otherwise.

So it is clear that a national conference of bishops have a right to determine a different age (not quite so clear about individual bishops. And it is further clear that, although a conference of Bishops can determine otherwise, the norm of the Church (in the west) is at the age of discretion.

I have read all of the section on confirmation in the Catechism and I find nothing which suggests an older age. I consider it a travesty in much of our country our children are denied the grace of this sacrament.

 

[GRATEFULONEjim]

It is praise-worthy that the catechesis is so strong in their diocese!

It isn’t linked to sacramental preparedness, though. To do so is to import Lutheran theology into the Catholic Church, making Confirmation non-sacramental.

Here are Wiki references to the Lutheran theology of Konfirmation:
"For Roman Catholics, Confirmation is a sacrament that “confirms” or “strengthens” (the original meaning of the word “confirm”) the grace of Baptism, by conferring an increase and deepening of that grace.

For some other Christians the ceremony of Confirmation is a matter not of “being confirmed” but of “confirming” the baptismal vows taken on one’s behalf when an infant. This is the essential significance of the Lutheran non-sacramental ceremony called in German “Konfirmation,” but in English “affirmation of baptism.”

Confirmation in the Lutheran Church is a public profession of faith prepared for by long and careful instruction. In English, it is called “affirmation of baptism”, and is a mature and public profession of the faith which “marks the completion of the congregation’s program of confirmation ministry”.

Call it what you want but we are fostering and setting forth good solid Catholics that know the faith and are willing to live the faith instead of creating more Catholics in Name Only who pick and choose what teachings of the Church to follow and might show up to Mass on Easter and Christmas.

 

[CDB1718]

Call it what you want but we are fostering and setting forth good solid Catholics that know the faith and are willing to live the faith instead of creating more Catholics in Name Only who pick and choose what teachings of the Church to follow and might show up to Mass on Easter and Christmas.

They don’t know the Catholic faith if they’re being taught Lutheran theology about the sacraments. Ironically, in a program like the one you describe, it is their catechists who are picking and choosing which parts of the faith to teach.

Any children who stay with the faith without the false teachings harming their relationship with God do so by the grace of the Holy Spirit, which they eventually receive if they jump through all the human obstacles. Their faithfulness cannot be claimed by humans as it is nothing but grace.

 

[tafan]

Call it what you want but we are fostering and setting forth good solid Catholics that know the faith and are willing to live the faith instead of creating more Catholics in Name Only who pick and choose what teachings of the Church to follow and might show up to Mass on Easter and Christmas.

Why can you not do this “foster and set forth good solid Catholics that know the faith and are willing to live the faith” despite the fact that the children have been confirmed?

 

[GRATEFULONEjim]

This idea that confirmation is a “sending off point, the fruition of childhood catechesis” sounds awfully sweet, but I find nothing of the sort in the Catechism. I think that placing our own definition on a sacrament, as opposed to the Church’s, would be the supreme example of trivializing.

I did find the following in the Catechism:

Also from Canon law:

So it is clear that a national conference of bishops have a right to determine a different age (not quite so clear about individual bishops. And it is further clear that, although a conference of Bishops can determine otherwise, the norm of the Church (in the west) is at the age of discretion.

I have read all of the section on confirmation in the Catechism and I find nothing which suggests an older age. I consider it a travesty in much of our country our children are denied the grace of this sacrament.

What about CCC 1307 and CCC 1309? Both can be interpreted as occurring at an older age.

 

[Brendan_64]

Call it what you want but we are fostering and setting forth good solid Catholics that know the faith and are willing to live the faith instead of creating more Catholics in Name Only who pick and choose what teachings of the Church to follow and might show up to Mass on Easter and Christmas.

That is all very laudable, but what gives you the right to offer access to the Sacraments as some kind of ‘reward’ for a demonstration of that person’s good knowledge of Catholic teaching?

In taking this approach you are actually teaching the children something that is contrary to the teachings of our Church. You have in effect created a doctrine of your own.

How would you deal with a handicapped child who will never be able to meet the standards you set? Deny them access to the Sacraments?

 

[GRATEFULONEjim]

Why can you not do this “foster and set forth good solid Catholics that know the faith and are willing to live the faith” despite the fact that the children have been confirmed?

You could if the parents were still willing to bring their children to RE. It is a fact that once the Sacraments stop, the participation in Religious Education stops. Why do you think the American Catholic Church is in the state it’s in.