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goofyjim
Guest
Then the Supreme Court got it wrong. A law abiding adult citizen has the right to vote. I don’t know where you got the stupid idea that this isn’t a democracy.
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awfulthings9
Guest
Ouch. Considering my insistence that I’m merely promoting an intellectual exercise and not expressing my own opinion, this seemed awfully sharp and intentional.You’re just not properly educated
No. Once someone shows disregard for society’s consensus, one could argue that he has forfieted his voice in participating in it.
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awfulthings9
Guest
Where do you get the brilliant idea that it is? Can you cite a source?
Also, if the Supreme Court got it wrong, then where in the constitution is the text that proves this?
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awfulthings9
Guest
That’s all folks. Off to work. I’ll try to catch up at the end of the day.
By the way, it would be a kind of nice thing if someone would go against his intellectual inclination and help me play Devil’s Advocate. Remember how we used to do the flip-flop threads, where we were all forced to argue a position we didn’t necessarily hold? They were very popular, and playing the bad guy is kind of fun and a very challenging mental exercise. Any takers?
By the way, it would be a kind of nice thing if someone would go against his intellectual inclination and help me play Devil’s Advocate. Remember how we used to do the flip-flop threads, where we were all forced to argue a position we didn’t necessarily hold? They were very popular, and playing the bad guy is kind of fun and a very challenging mental exercise. Any takers?
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goofyjim
Guest
This thread is not about whether the Church is a democracy but the whether the US is. It is a democratic republic. The only way to fulfill the democratic part of that is to give every law abiding adult citizen the right to vote. Otherwise you might as well reverse the all the voting rights legislation, such as giving women the right to vote and eighteen year olds, and former slaves. How far do you wish to go before an elite few run the country for everyone else making it no longer a free society.
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Mirdath
Guest
I know – just teasing. Maybe I should have used this guy instead?
If the consensus is going to remain permanently fixed, why vote at all?
This honestly isn’t very defensible, though you’ve been doing an admirable job with what you’ve got. I think I’m pretty thoroughly set in a role here, but pm me before the next one and I’ll see about giving you a hand
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goofyjim
Guest
It’s called the voting rights legislation. It gave former slaves the right to vote, then women, then lowered the age to 18. Outside of criminal history what should there be to take that away? If the Supreme Court made any other decision restricting the a law abiding citizen’s right to vote then, yes, they got it wrong.
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mary_bobo
Guest
It would be really nice if they could speak and read English and knew enough to know who their representatives were.
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OutinChgoburbs
Guest
Just a point in this fascinating thread- The United States is a representative republic, not a democracy. It’s what Ben Franklin called it, anyway. There are instances of direct vote, particularly on the local level, that do in fact resemble democracy. But by and large, we vote in representatives, and they vote (and parlay and debtate) as our representatives.
Continue with your debate. It’s good!
Continue with your debate. It’s good!
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Maxply
Guest
Jim’s right here. The poor not only hold the right to vote, but I believe that it’s a right that they specially need to exercise and should be encouraged to exercise.
Rich folks vote more than poor people; they also write $5,000 checks to politicians and encourage them to rewrite the federal tax code to benefit their bank account. It’s a neat tradeoff if you’re rich: write a $5K check, get back $50K in tax change returns.
Rich people (if I can go on) benefit more from the current political and economic structure than other people; it’s right to tax them more.
Rich folks vote more than poor people; they also write $5,000 checks to politicians and encourage them to rewrite the federal tax code to benefit their bank account. It’s a neat tradeoff if you’re rich: write a $5K check, get back $50K in tax change returns.
Rich people (if I can go on) benefit more from the current political and economic structure than other people; it’s right to tax them more.
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janw
Guest
Just had to say how much I agree and its sad for our country, but its getting worst every year. The American Dream of working hard and making a good life for your family I’m afraid is disappearing. Hopefully more people struggling will try to find the time to make informed choices when voting. This can be hard if you are spending all your time trying to survive.It seems it sometimes a choice of whats best for middle Americans and the working poor or voting our faith. I believe we have been deceived on the faith issue more than once. But again this election, I’m unsure as I want christian values but have 3 working children with no health coverage and the price completely out of their range. I think prayer is the only answer.
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HannahLisa
Guest
This is true, yes. But the US is not obligated to make the system easy if they are trying to keep the level of legal immigrants to a minimum. The question then is, does the difficulty of the system excuse the illegal immigration?
Also, I do not think that all “criminals” disobey laws they consider unjust. Is punishment for murder unjust? Of course not. Does a criminal want people stealing from them, or even just going on their property without permission? I doubt it.
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ribozyme
Guest
Huh? I am quizzical. Tell me how prayer solves your problems?
But saying that, you’ve revealed how weak and powerless you are in today’s political system.
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ribozyme
Guest
No… it’s theft to tax the wealthy, and countries such as Thailand have no right to infringe patents on HIV drugs that they couldn’t afford because they are not respecting property rights.
I do not know what the right price is for a country that has a GDP-PPP of $8677. I do not know if $2,200 will be too expensive for them.
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LCMS_No_More
Guest
Scrooge lives!No, the poor should not be allowed to vote.
In fact, we shouldn’t even allow them to eat!
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iamrefreshed
Guest
Sorry, I couldn’t resist.
It’s been to hot and heavy around here with the politics. Just wanted a quick smile
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goofyjim
Guest
The Fair Tax would solve that problem. But unfortunately this thread is about whether the poor should be allowed to vote and if they are legal law abiding citizens they unequivocally should be.
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ribozyme
Guest
I was being sarcastic in that post.
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goofyjim
Guest
My bad. I have trouble discerning sarcasm.
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SoCalRC
Guest
Look at the financial page. If you’d sunk $20,000 in stock for a particular, one time, hot, sub prime lender, it would be worth than $1,000 today.
Look at all the folks walking away and all the folks involved in the companies that are tanking. Then step back and look at the morons who decided that the market needed no oversight - almost all would be the proper gentile folks you seem to think are better equipped to run the country. But they all look pretty stupid and socially irresponsible to me, not exactly what one would want in a ruling class.
It is an utter myth that socio-economic success (or failure) is principally, or even largely coupled to self determination. Middle class America generally doesn’t exist unless we create it. Be it in land grants (the upper crust wanted to sell all that western land to payoff the national debt), the massive GI bill after WW-II, or social security and medicare (picture yourself paying $100000 a year for Grandmas care).
When we stop promoting fiscal mobility, low and behold, it vanishes.
I happen to be fortunate. I actually grew up in a pretty modest blue collar household, but after coming back from Vietnam I got enough scholarship and federal money so that I could work through school, and then got very lucky with some startup businesses. All luck? No, I worked hard, but I am not self delusional enough to believe that I’d be where I am today if I’d been born on the same day, at the same time, but in a slum in Calcutta or even a tenament in the ‘wrong’ part of Baltimore.
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