Should the Pope be made accountable in a court of law

[imasinner]

…for the systematic cover-up of sexual abuse by some priests in the Church? I was wondering whether Catholics would like to see the Pope defend himself in a court of law against the allegations leveled at him and the Church through the media.

How many other predatory sexual perverts dressed as priests are still serving in the Church with full knowledge of their bishop? Are the bishops listening to the Pope and turning them in to the local authorities? They need not wait for a complaint from a victim, they would know who they are through Confession.

 

[vera_dicere]

See, the problem here, with your statements, is you seem to be implying that you believe the rubbish spouted in the media.

If the Pope is found to be a child molester or some other form of criminal, by all means, hold him accountable.

Thing is, however, he is not. The media are simply engaging in what is known as a “smear campaign”. Why? Ask satan, that dip sh1t probably knows.

 

[imasinner]

Not I dont believe the rubbish sprouted by the media. I don’t believe there was a systematic cover-up within the Church but I’m Catholic so I dont WANT to believe it so I’m biased, sue me. I’m confused and hurting just like any other Catholic. I certainly do not believe our Pope is a child molester. Please dont put words in my mouth. Just need to share my frustrations with my Catholic brothers and sisters so I can make some sense of how I’m feeling. Peace

 

[Artorius1963]

The Pope is not just the spiritual head of our church on earth and the Vicar of Christ, he is the head of state of the Vatican which is a sovereign city-state within Rome. As a head of state he is afforded all of the rights, priviliges and immunities as any national leader the same as President Obama, President Putin, the Emporer of Japan and Queen Elizabeth ect. ect. Roman courts or any court do not have jurisdiction inside the Vatican just as the Vatican has no jurisdiction anywhere else. If he where to be tried for anything it would have to be by a Vatican Ecclesiastical Court under Canon Law and nothing else.

Regardless, I don’t believe the Holy Father is guilty of anything except maybe being too naive in the workings of the leftist press and the agents-provacateur within the clergy. Personally, I hope and pray that more of those pedophiles within our church are exposed and then weeded out. Hiding the scandal only makes things worse. And as far as damaging the churches reputation or it’s very existence, I have no worries because Jesus promised, “that even the gates of Hell will not prevail against it.” Vivat Jesus!

Artorius

 

[Tietjen]

…for the systematic cover-up of sexual abuse by some priests in the Church? I was wondering whether Catholics would like to see the Pope defend himself in a court of law against the allegations leveled at him and the Church through the media.

Interesting… I suppose that IF there was indeed actual evidence of wrong-doing on the part of the Holy Father then he should appear in court. However, until that time…

How many other predatory sexual perverts dressed as priests are still serving in the Church with full knowledge of their bishop?

I don’t know… I do know that I will have enough respect for the priesthood not to assume guilt or become angry at the institution because SOME have violated the trust and morality which accompanies their positions as priests. When I hear about yet another teacher who has sexually abused one of his/her students, I don’t make such a wide disparaging statement against all teachers. Shouldn’t you, as a Catholic, at least give the priesthood the same courtesy!!!

Are the bishops listening to the Pope and turning them in to the local authorities? They need not wait for a complaint from a victim, they would know who they are through Confession.

As a Catholic you should know that what is discussed within the confessional does not leave the confessional.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and take your word that you are truly a Catholic. However, as a Catholic, I do hope that someday you better understand your faith and develop a better relationship and opinion of the priesthood and priests in general. The Church is made up of over 1 billion people. I challenge anyone to find me a group of 1+ billion people that does not have within its ranks sinners of all types.

 

[willofgods]

Unfortunately, I heard of a case where a Bishop did report to police, and after investigation by the police, they dropped the case. Later it was found that the priest in question did indeed abuse children. If I’m not mistaken, that priest was excommunicated…

So I think a lot more than just Bishops turning a blind eye is going on. It’s hard to prove these kinds of crimes, even if you have police helping!*

 

[imasinner]

The Pope is not just the spiritual head of our church on earth and the Vicar of Christ, he is the head of state of the Vatican which is a sovereign city-state within Rome. As a head of state he is afforded all of the rights, priviliges and immunities as any national leader the same as President Obama, President Putin, the Emporer of Japan and Queen Elizabeth ect. ect. Roman courts or any court do not have jurisdiction inside the Vatican just as the Vatican has no jurisdiction anywhere else.** If he where to be tried for anything it would have to be by a Vatican Ecclesiastical Court under Canon Law and nothing else**.

It would never happen even if he was guilty. The Vatican would not allow it. Remember JPl?

Regardless, I don’t believe the Holy Father is guilty of anything except maybe being too naive in the workings of the leftist press and the agents-provacateur within the clergy. Personally, I hope and pray that more of those pedophiles within our church are exposed and then weeded out. Hiding the scandal only makes things worse. And as far as damaging the churches reputation or it’s very existence, I have no worries because Jesus promised, “that even the gates of Hell will not prevail against it.” Vivat Jesus!

Artorius

Thank you. Many Catholics on here seem to want to go off on a tangent defending the indefencible by pointing to other religious and secular group that are guilty of these dispicable acts instead of focusing on our own problems. We need to clean house not point the finger to “excuse” the evil that is the Church.

 

[imasinner]

Interesting… I suppose that IF there was indeed actual evidence of wrong-doing on the part of the Holy Father then he should appear in court. However, until that time…

I like yourself do not believe the Holy Father is guilty I am simply throwing out a question to gauge how my Catholic brothers and sisters would react/ feel IF we believed he was guilty should he be above the law?

I don’t know… I do know that I will have enough respect for the priesthood not to assume guilt or become angry at the institution because SOME have violated the trust and morality which accompanies their positions as priests.

Dont assume that I do not respect the priesthood, I’m Catholic. I had a catholic secondary schooling and most teachers were priests and nuns. When I complained to parents about anything to do with my priest teachers I was told I (or any Catholic for that matter) I had no right to criticize our priests. That this was a grave matter bordering on sin. That the priesthood belongs to God and for God alone to judge and for me to listen and accept. I think this Catholic mentality helps guilty priests to get away with wrongdoing. Are we guilty of turning a blind eye today?

When I hear about yet another teacher who has sexually abused one of his/her students, I don’t make such a wide disparaging statement against all teachers. Shouldn’t you, as a Catholic, at least give the priesthood the same courtesy?!?!

I love our priests. I do not know of any priest that I have not respected. I am angry with those that are guilty and with those that have invovled with any deliberate cover-up.

As a Catholic you should know that what is discussed within the confessional does not leave the confessional.

You’re right, of course.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and take your word that you are truly a Catholic. However, as a Catholic, I do hope that someday you better understand your faith and develop a better relationship and opinion of the priesthood and priests in general. The Church is made up of over 1 billion people. I challenge anyone to find me a group of 1+ billion people that does not have within its ranks sinners of all types.

Like you said there is over a billion of us. What are we doing about it?

I apologise if my words are offensive, it certainly is not intended. But you are wrong to assume that I do not have a deep respect for our priests. Without them how else am I going to be sure that my sins are forgiven?

 

[imasinner]

It would never happen even if he was guilty. The Vatican would not allow it. Remember JPl?

Thank you. Many Catholics on here seem to want to go off on a tangent defending the indefencible by pointing to other religious and secular group that are guilty of these dispicable acts instead of focusing on our own problems. We need to clean house not point the finger to “excuse” the evil that is the Church.

oops…"the evil that is “in” the Church.

 

[Jermosh]

He is a forign dignitary, so who’s court? Also is what he did actually a criminal crime? Civil sure, but as again who’s court?

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Do you have any proof that Pope Benedict XVI was complicit in any cover up of abuse, or abuse itself?

 

[ComputerGeek25]

I like yourself do not believe the Holy Father is guilty I am simply throwing out a question to gauge how my Catholic brothers and sisters would react/ feel IF we believed he was guilty should he be above the law?

If there is guilt on his part in the abuse scandal, he should at least step down and face what ever punishment the Vatican imposes.

 

[Zatzat]

He is a forign dignitary, so who’s court? Also is what he did actually a criminal crime? Civil sure, but as again who’s court?

A UN International Criminal tribunal.

That’s where they tried Sobodan Milosevic. ( He’d been a head of state)

 

[Zatzat]

Do you have any proof that Pope Benedict XVI was complicit in any cover up of abuse, or abuse itself?

You raise a good point.

To get these answers, the Vatican should open their doors to the outside world for a full and complete investigation. On top of that, the vatican could submit all of their records for a forensic audit.

 

[JanetF]

Honestly, I think each case has to be taken individually, and work our way up the chain so to speak. The priest, then anyone who knew and didn’t disclose. I don’t think we can start with the Pope and eviscerate him simply because he is the head of the Church. That’s like charging the general of war crimes that a private in the general’s command did of his own accord.

On another note, most of the cases we are hearing about right now, happened decades ago. What proof do we have that PB13 had anything to do with any of the cases?

 

[Mayita30]

…for the systematic cover-up of sexual abuse by some priests in the Church? I was wondering whether Catholics would like to see the Pope defend himself in a court of law against the allegations leveled at him and the Church through the media.

How many other predatory sexual perverts dressed as priests are still serving in the Church with full knowledge of their bishop? Are the bishops listening to the Pope and turning them in to the local authorities? They need not wait for a complaint from a victim, they would know who they are through Confession.

Maybe you should just stop watching the news which is one-sided and pray for the Church which is composed of Human beings, good and bad, sinners and saints, pray for more GOOD priests and pray for present priest that they may be true to their vocations and not be tempted!!! Let us also pray for the pope!! He is an OLD MAN!!! Let us pray that he can resolve the crisis faced by the church today…

AS for me, I would not judge whether the pope is guilty or not. All men are innocent until proven guilty and that goes for CATHOLICS too! All I will do is pray and you should too

 

[Tietjen]

It would never happen even if he was guilty. The Vatican would not allow it. Remember JPl?

Thank you. Many Catholics on here seem to want to go off on a tangent defending the indefencible by pointing to other religious and secular group that are guilty of these dispicable acts instead of focusing on our own problems.

LOL… I believe that you are confused. “Many Catholics” are not trying to defend the indefensible. Instead “many Catholics” are keeping everything in prospective. You, the media, and others seem to be of the opinion that the Church is filled with child-molesting priests. The “many Catholics” on the other hand recognize that the problem is not as huge as “the few” might like to believe. Sure, there are lots of accusations, the media is also relentless at finding a story in every possible parish, and many anti-Catholics love to point their fingers at these stories and accusations (whether they be based in fact or not) and cry, “BEHOLD, the whore of Babylon!” But, for the “Many Catholics” we know, understand, and trust that God will protect His Church. That not all who have come forward to accuse priests are being honest. That the VAST majority of Catholic priests are NOT molesters. For those few who have been found guilty of these horrible offenses, they should be punished.

We need to clean house not point the finger to “excuse” the evil that is the Church.

LOL… interesting slip?

 

[Tietjen]

A UN International Criminal tribunal.

That’s where they tried Sobodan Milosevic. ( He’d been a head of state)

What criminal charge would the most noble UN tribunal charge the Holy Father with? LOL… this thread is starting to get silly.

 

[Tietjen]

Maybe you should just stop watching the news which is one-sided and pray for the Church which is composed of Human beings, good and bad, sinners and saints, pray for more GOOD priests and pray for present priest that they may be true to their vocations and not be tempted!!! Let us also pray for the pope!! He is an OLD MAN!!! Let us pray that he can resolve the crisis faced by the church today…

AS for me, I would not judge whether the pope is guilty or not. All men are innocent until proven guilty and that goes for CATHOLICS too! All I will do is pray and you should too

A voice of reason… Thank you Mayita.

 

[imasinner]

Maybe you should just stop watching the news which is one-sided and pray for the Church which is composed of Human beings, good and bad, sinners and saints, pray for more GOOD priests and pray for present priest that they may be true to their vocations and not be tempted!!! Let us also pray for the pope!! He is an OLD MAN!!! Let us pray that he can resolve the crisis faced by the church today…

AS for me, I would not judge whether the pope is guilty or not. All men are innocent until proven guilty and that goes for CATHOLICS too! All I will do is pray and you should too

Great advice, thank you