Should the SPPX be Avoided

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I regularly attend the EF Mass, and prefer it **greatly **over the NO Mass. In the many years I have been Catholic, I have witinessed a great deal of abuses at many NO Masses, which have almost made me sorry to be called a Catholic. I have remained steadfast, through prayer and patience, as I knew the Latin Mass would soon return, and that by pure logical reasoning. I feel Vatican II was more of an attempt at a social experiment (that may have not been as successful as planned) and that it candy coated the rock, which if one is not careful, could end up an unpleasant experience if one take a bite out of it without knowing what is really inside. But I am not to say it is wrong, and I know it is just as valid, given the proper adherence to the solemn nature that is required in it’s administration.

I have a great interest of the situation that has occured between the SPPX, Archbishop Lefebvre and Rome, respectively. As there may exist certain legitimate reasons why the Archbishop did what he did, I always hold the position that to learn the truth in anything, one should exhaust all avenues of research before coming to a judgement. Opinion is not part of my research method, even though it creeps in from time to time and must be kept in check. Opinion is not scientific and is detrimental to a good sound result or truthful conclusion. I am still researching the problems between the different positions they hold. My understanding is that one is obliged to attend a NO Mass, as obligation applies within the Church, if no EF Mass is available.

The question I have is this: In my research proceedings I have noted that the SPPX states in their application for the laity to be a member of the 3rd Order, to promise not to attend a NO Mass of Paul VI, only the Traditional Mass. Is this not a bit confusing? I am currently a supporting member of the FSSP.

Naturally, we often have to endure that which may make us uncomfortable in any situation in life, this is very imitative of Christ Himself. Yet, when it come to the practice of my religion, and I encounter that which challenge my scuples, I have to take a position and remain steadfast, or I would not be worthy of the promises of Christ. There are no divisions in the Church, but it seems there may exist a certain amount of possibly waist high fences on the property as a result of personal opinions. This reality can be confusing at times.

Thanks for any help and possible additional research leads.
 
Tartini said:
The question I have is this: In my research proceedings I have noted that the SPPX states in their application for the laity to be a member of the 3rd Order, to promise not to attend a NO Mass of Paul VI, only the Traditional Mass. Is this not a bit confusing? I am currently a supporting member of the FSSP.
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I hear they try not to attend anything other than SSPX but I don’t think this should necessarily be alarming. After all, what would a Jesuit think of attending a Franciscan service? Resolving not to attend a certain rite doesn’t mean that you deny its validity, though I’m sure that there are a few that do deny its validity. But then many outside SSPX are taught it is wrong to attend their rites under any circumstance, though it’s clearly a valid Catholic rite.
 
ProVobis said:
I hear they try not to attend anything other than SSPX but I don’t think this should necessarily be alarming. After all, what would a Jesuit think of attending a Franciscan service? Resolving not to attend a certain rite doesn’t mean that you deny its validity, though I’m sure that there are a few that do deny its validity. But then many outside SSPX are taught it is wrong to attend their rites under any circumstance, though it’s clearly a valid Catholic rite.
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I didn’t know that the SSPX was considered one of the 22 rights of the Catholic Church :confused: I recommend not attending an SSPX or supporting anything that deals with the SSPX such as Angelus Press. Jesuits have no problem with attending Franciscan services and such. In fact on EWTN a couple of weeks ago there were many Franciscans attending a Maronite service held at EWTN complex
 
I didn’t know that the SSPX was considered one of the 22 rights of the Catholic Church ??

What are the “22 Rights”? or where can I find more info on them?

Also, many parishioners use the Roman Catholic Daily Missal (I use it) which is published by Angelus Press. The Mass I attend is said word for word, concerning the Latin, in my missal. Would this possibly constitute support of the SPPX in an indirect way to others? It seems to be the exact same as the missal published by Baronius Press.

Thanks for any help.
 
Tartini said:
I didn’t know that the SSPX was considered one of the 22 rights of the Catholic Church ??

What are the “22 Rights”? or where can I find more info on them?

Also, many parishioners use the Roman Catholic Daily Missal (I use it) which is published by Angelus Press. The Mass I attend is said word for word, concerning the Latin, in my missal. Would this possibly constitute support of the SPPX in an indirect way to others? It seems to be the exact same as the missal published by Baronius Press.

Thanks for any help.
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Angelus Press is affiliated with the SSPX and Baronius Press is not. They publish works supporting the SSPX. The SSPX is still not in full communion with Rome. Although the excommunications have been lifted doesn’t mean they aren’t still in schism with the Church and every thing is hunky dory
 
Angelus Press is affiliated with the SSPX and Baronius Press is not. They publish works supporting the SSPX.
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St. John Cantius sells works published by Angelus Press. Guess I should avoid them too?
Jesuits have no problem with attending Franciscan services and such. In fact on EWTN a couple of weeks ago there were many Franciscans attending a Maronite service held at EWTN complex
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And EWTN represents the Catholic mainstream?

Maybe you don’t but I sure try to avoid a Jesuit service. Does that make me schismatic?
 
I understand what you mean. You meant RITES, but spelled it RIGHTS. Thanks for the clarification on that and that the SSPX is not in full communion with Rome. I was unaware of this, but I suspected it. Are they sedavacanists?
The missal I use is the Angelus Press publication, but I do not want to convey support to the SSPX to others or support something that I do not agree with. I would wonder if I should buy the one from Baronius Press? It is exactly the same. Putting a cover on the missal will not change the fact of the matter. Reference to the SPPX is clearly on the cover of thier published missal by virtue of the logo. Many different missals are used by the parishioners, including the Angelus Press publication. I realize this may seem a little trivial, but I don’t want to misrepresent myself, even though it would be through ignorance, which I cannot claim now.
 
Tartini said:
I understand what you mean. You meant RITES, but spelled it RIGHTS. Thanks for the clarification on that and that the SSPX is not in full communion with Rome. I was unaware of this, but I suspected it. Are they sedavacanists?
The missal I use is the Angelus Press publication, but I do not want to convey support to the SSPX to others or support something that I do not agree with. I would wonder if I should buy the one from Baronius Press? It is exactly the same. Putting a cover on the missal will not change the fact of the matter. Reference to the SPPX is clearly on the cover of thier published missal by virtue of the logo. Many different missals are used by the parishioners, including the Angelus Press publication. I realize this may seem a little trivial, but I don’t want to misrepresent myself, even though it would be through ignorance, which I cannot claim now.
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There is nothing wrong with buying the Angelus Press missal. In fact, I find it is superior to the Baronius Press missal, in matters of how the content is laid out, in addition to the design/manufacture/quality.

If you will “jump ship”, so to say, with Angelus Press because they are affiliated with the SSPX, will you not buy any books from a publisher that supports immoral practices?
 
*If you ask those who attend or supportive of them, the answer is “No.” If you ask those who can’t stand them, the answer is, “Yes.”
*
That would most likely be the answers I would get from individuals, which whould be based on opinion, which is not conducive to good research. They may not even know why they are saying yea or nay.

Thanks for reminding me to go to the best sources available when one has questions about the Church and her teachings. I will carefully read the documents (which I have only aquainted myself with in bits and pieces, and never read fully), which by all accounts, have to be the most reliable.
 
BayernAnhaenger said:
There is nothing wrong with buying the Angelus Press missal. In fact, I find it is superior to the Baronius Press missal, in matters of how the content is laid out, in addition to the design/manufacture/quality.

If you will “jump ship”, so to say, with Angelus Press because they are affiliated with the SSPX, will you not buy any books from a publisher that supports immoral practices?
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I agree with you on the point of the Angelus Press missal, however my concern was more centered towards a public representation or support of a company that would be contrary to my beliefs. I don’t understand your comment about supporting publishers who support immoral practices. Could you give me an example? As a general rule, I try to be careful of the publishers that I do buy works from, and their philosophies. Sometimes the avoidance is either impossible or committed in error through ignorance. Sometimes the materials that one needs for certain research can only be found from the souce, even though the researcher is not in agreement with the source of the information. All information is basically useful, and should be considered in a concise research process.
 
Tartini said:
I agree with you on the point of the Angelus Press missal, however my concern was more centered towards a public representation or support of a company that would be contrary to my beliefs. I don’t understand your comment about supporting publishers who support immoral practices. Could you give me an example? As a general rule, I try to be careful of the publishers that I do buy works from, and their philosophies. Sometimes the avoidance is either impossible or committed in error through ignorance. Sometimes the materials that one needs for certain research can only be found from the souce, even though the researcher is not in agreement with the source of the information. All information is basically useful, and should be considered in a concise research process.
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Ahh, ok.

It’s good that you’re consistent. 😉

I don’t think that having the Angelus Press missal would be scandalous at all. As one poster above said, St. John Cantius sells it, and they are probably, by far, the most well-known parish/order/group in the country as leaders of the “Reform of the Reform” and the “Restoration of the Sacred.” So, if they find it worthy to support, I would be all for it (plus, they’re fully, 100% okeedoke with the Arch. of Chicago).

By the way, I’m guessing you attend at Holy Rosary. Omigosh, I love that parish so much. I go to school in Terre Haute, and we go there every so often. Once I return from abroad, though, I’ll be attending there weekly. It’s simply the best.
 
Thanks for you quick reply. Maybe I am being too scupulous in my thinking, as I should not worry so much as to what others think of me (I could care less about such vanities), but more about the utility of the missal, respectively. It may open a little dialogue if I am approached with the question, and I want to be able to answer intelligently. I actually find it the whole affair sad and hope there is some resolution made soon…it seems to be rather opinioniated and takes away the privledge that we are still able to have the Latin Mass said.

Holy Rosary is my parish. It is a prayer answered and I am lucky to be able to attend. I am disabled and cannot drive, and they placed an ad for me in the bulletin and a person answered it. I see many young people there at the EF and am proud of them, as they will hopefully carry on the Tradition. I have learned much about the EF there and I have no complaints. There NO Mass is very acceptable to me, as well.
 
SSPX is not in schism with Rome!!! Just because SSPX has refused to conform with the NO rite doesn’t place it in schism. No one in SSPX is thinking life is grand because the excommunication of the 3 bishops have been lifted. The excommunication has not been lifted for Archbishop LeFeve. Of course this would have to be done posthumusly since he has died. One would have to argue on the validity of his excommunication. Excommunicating someone because they were trying to preserve the teachings of the church that had been in effect since the Council of Trent and avoid the modernism that was planned to start in the church. The Tridentine rite is and has been a valid rite in the church long before Vatican II. SSPX unlike other traditional organizations does acknowledge the pope, they may not agree with him 100%, (I don’t always agree with him) but they do respect him. They are not sedavacanists!! As for the 3rd order with the society, if one decides to join they make a promise to limit or avoid things, in particular tv. They also promise to continue to grow and cultivate their spirituality. I don’t know about attending only traditional masses, but if you are already attending those masses, chances are you don’t want to or like attending the NO mass. I for one really dislike the NO mass. For me there is too much fluff and not enough substance. I attend a church that is run by SSPX and have not seen or heard anything that is questionable, and no I am not turning a blind eye to it because of my support for them. The priests look and act like priests. While attending mass you really feel as though you are partaking in the mass. For those who don’t like SSPX, try attending a mass, talk to the other parishiners ask them about SSPX. You will find the questions to your answers first hand and not from a publication that is anti SSPX or anti traditionalist. SSPX is doing something right since we have more men being ordained than in the NO archdiocese and continue to grow. I sincerely doubt they (SSPX) would be growing without some truth in their beliefs and teachings.

:manvspc:
 
Tartini said:
Thanks for you quick reply. Maybe I am being too scupulous in my thinking, as I should not worry so much as to what others think of me (I could care less about such vanities), but more about the utility of the missal, respectively. It may open a little dialogue if I am approached with the question, and I want to be able to answer intelligently. I actually find it the whole affair sad and hope there is some resolution made soon…it seems to be rather opinioniated and takes away the privledge that we are still able to have the Latin Mass said.

Holy Rosary is my parish. It is a prayer answered and I am lucky to be able to attend. I am disabled and cannot drive, and they placed an ad for me in the bulletin and a person answered it. I see many young people there at the EF and am proud of them, as they will hopefully carry on the Tradition. I have learned much about the EF there and I have no complaints. There NO Mass is very acceptable to me, as well.
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Ahh, ok. If you have any more questions, I’m betting Fr. Magiera, or Msgr. Schaedel would be able to provide a bit more info/help.

It’s wonderful to hear that you can attend!

As to the youth, I’ve been working, ever so slowly, to help bring my friends into the traditionalist fold, or at least break down their mental barriers that they have towards traditionalism.

I’ve never been to the HR’s NO, but it sounds like it is good.

God bless!
 
ProVobis said:
St. John Cantius sells works published by Angelus Press. Guess I should avoid them too?

And EWTN represents the Catholic mainstream?

Maybe you don’t but I sure try to avoid a Jesuit service. Does that make me schismatic?
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no it doesn’t make you as schismatic. BTW Fr. Mitch Pacwa is Jesuit priest on EWTN and celebrates mass on TV. What is wrong with Jesuit?? Bottom line Jesuits aren’t in schism from the Church, but the SSPX is. I never heard of St. John Cantius. Angelus Press sells his works not the other way around. I would avoid Angelus Press, TLM isn’t there main focus it is SSPX.
 
tobinatorstark said:
no it doesn’t make you as schismatic. BTW Fr. Mitch Pacwa is Jesuit priest on EWTN and celebrates mass on TV. What is wrong with Jesuit?? Bottom line Jesuits aren’t in schism from the Church, but the SSPX is. I never heard of St. John Cantius. Angelus Press sells his works not the other way around. I would avoid Angelus Press, TLM isn’t there main focus it is SSPX.
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Jesuit Masses are typically… relatively liberal.

St. John Cantius is a parish located in Chicago. They have a lovely website, www.cantius.org, that I would recommend looking through. If you ever go to Chicago, I highly recommend going there. The church is magnificent, as are their liturgies.

Angelus Press also has some very good books. I would honestly not write them off, simply due to their affiliation with SSPX. Angelus and TAN Books are both very good sources for traditional Catholic stuff. In addition, Angelus has some nice “cultural” things.
 
saskatoon,
Thank you for your informative post. It has cleared up a great deal of my question as I originally posted it. I would feel that what was done by the Archbishop Lefevre may have been wrong, and that is to be acknowledged in it’s context or possible circumstances as far as we can truthfully know the facts. From what I have observed, in relation to the incredible growth of EF Mass attendence today, it would seem that it seems to have had more of a positive effect than a negative one. It should be taken also in consideration that what he did may be either directly or indirectly responsible for preserving the ability to be able to attend the EF today. This consideration seems to pose a great question that could even apply to the whole status of the NO Mass. Something is truly to be learned from both situations. It so often seems that good things often are born fromdifficult situations. As a rule of theirs concerning their 3rd Order, I am in total agreement with the rules. I threw my television out just before Lent, and do not miss it one bit! Television in itself is not a bad thing when used to educate, it is just the predominate amount of the vain and pointless programming that goes into it that renders it useless for anything productive. Seems a terrible waste of money and an insult to ones intelligence.
 
Tartini,

First, in response to your original questions, I’d like to reiterate the suggestions of previous posters who have suggested reading the documents involved. Also, don’t go with second-hand information when it comes to the SSPX, as you will probably get a lot of confusing and conflicting information. Instead, talk to a Society Priest, or look for the information on the website if you would like to know more about where the SSPX is coming from with regards to tradition.

Secondly, there are a couple questions that I can answer that tend to arise in these discussions:

A. The SSPX are not sedevacantists as they do not believe that the Chair of Peter is
“vacant.” You will find a papal flag in clear display at most SSPX chapels.

B. The excommunication of Archbishop Lefebre was not “lifted” with the other bishops
because you cannot lift an excommunication posthumously, since the state of the
soul would have already been judged at death.

C. Catholics who attend Mass at an SSPX chapel are not excommunicated, schismatic
or in “imperfect communion.” They incur no penalty by attending the Traditional
Mass.

D. Angelus Press is run by the SSPX but does not publish “inappropriate” material,
unless one is disposed to think that the pre-Vatican II literature is inappropriate
(e.g. Baltimore Catechism, writings of the Saints, info on the TLM etc).

Thirdly, I’d recommend reading the book “Open Letter to Confused Catholics” by Archbishop Lefebre. It clearly lays out the “founder’s” view on Catholic tradition and his opinions on modernism, Vatican II, etc.
 
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