Should the state marry gay lovers?

[Arclight]

If power of attorney is no good (and it doesn’t seem to work). Exactly what are we supposed to do to declare our wishes, when hospitals are free to ignore our legal documents with impunity?

You’re out of luck. But look at the bright side. The Republic, Marriage, Apple Pie and Mom have all been Saved because of your sacrifice.

 

[The_Smiter]

Civil Unions/Domestic Partnerships/Anything ‘close’ to gay marriage are banned in the following states by constitutional amendment:
Virginia, Kentucky, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, North Dakota, South Dakota, Idaho, Utah, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Louisiana, Iowa, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, Florida

Here is the ones that have banned gay marriage, there are no talks in any of these for civil unions.
Montana, Nevada, Colorado, Missouri, Tennessee, Mississippi, Arizona.

That’s 26 states.

Wyoming, Iowa, Minnesota, Illinois, Indiana, Pennsylvania, West Virginia and North Carolina have also banned them via laws.

That’s 35 states.

Exactly what is your ‘most’ compose itself of? Only in the last batch could Civil Unions be brought forth, the others law is all so broad as to ban those as well, most ban domestic partnerships as well.

Look at the situation in the states that you list 10 years ago and you will find almost all of them were against civil unions and similar laws at that time. I am sure that in 10 more years you will see more states having compromised on civil unions and such.

You are ignoring the fact that this is a process that has been ongoing and has (despite your bold statements to the contrary) been decided overwhelmingly in favor of your position. Granted, most of society is against gay marriage, buyt they are in favor of civil unions and other laws which protect rights of unmarried couples regardless of sexual orientation.

Also I do not want to get into the quoting of statistics and referencing websites and such. Who has the time to do that with work and all. However, it is well understood that over the past decade or so that violence against gays and lesbians has not come from outside their communities but rather from within. Despite the rare occurrence, there are no gay-bashing incidents rampantly taking place in America. Colorado and Wyoming - ten years ago two of the most conservative states politically and socially - have adopted legal protectionss for gays and lesbians and the entire demeanor of the states has been very “live and let live”. Your doom and gloom hystrionics simply do not jibe with the realities of the changes that have occurred in this counbtry. Again, you want “all or nothing” for your side’s favor and will evidently continue to spin the posts as you will to indicate that there are gross atrocities taking place against the gay community - and that is just simply not the case.

 

[Feanor]

I don’t care about civil unions just DON"T CALL IT MARRIAGE!!

 

[Annn]

Look at the situation in the states that you list 10 years ago and you will find almost all of them were against civil unions and similar laws at that time. I am sure that in 10 more years you will see more states having compromised on civil unions and such.

You are ignoring the fact that this is a process that has been ongoing and has (despite your bold statements to the contrary) been decided overwhelmingly in favor of your position. Granted, most of society is against gay marriage, buyt they are in favor of civil unions and other laws which protect rights of unmarried couples regardless of sexual orientation.

Also I do not want to get into the quoting of statistics and referencing websites and such. Who has the time to do that with work and all. However, it is well understood that over the past decade or so that violence against gays and lesbians has not come from outside their communities but rather from within. Despite the rare occurrence, there are no gay-bashing incidents rampantly taking place in America. Colorado and Wyoming - ten years ago two of the most conservative states politically and socially - have adopted legal protectionss for gays and lesbians and the entire demeanor of the states has been very “live and let live”. Your doom and gloom hystrionics simply do not jibe with the realities of the changes that have occurred in this counbtry. Again, you want “all or nothing” for your side’s favor and will evidently continue to spin the posts as you will to indicate that there are gross atrocities taking place against the gay community - and that is just simply not the case.

Though I have never been violently assaulted I have been verbally assaulted because of my sexual orientation on many occasions. I’ve had some of the most vulgar things thrown at me.

 

[The_Smiter]

If power of attorney is no good (and it doesn’t seem to work). Exactly what are we supposed to do to declare our wishes, when hospitals are free to ignore our legal documents with impunity?

It is unfortunate to have to do so, but I need to do this myself even whn precise documentation has been estblished - GET A LAWYER TO REPRESENT YOU> That is their function. Use them. Attorneys can be very effective at communicating to institutions and individuals that the doicuments to which you are referring aree legally binding and that they shouyld and must be followed.

Respectfully - you sound like a victim. Here I am as a person with whom you disagree and I am trying to encourage you to stand up for your rights. There are many Gay and LKesbian defense organizations that you could call in sucha n instance and have pro bono representation within 24 hours or even sooner. I am saying that the law is on your side with respect to precedent having been established in many places over the years. You have to be smart about this process and not just whine that it is not what you want. I am on your side with respect to the protection of you rrights. I just do not believe that marriage is a right to which you have access. I think that’s a pretty good common ground from which to form come consensus, but I do nto knoww if that is what you are after.

 

[pathia]

Look at the situation in the states that you list 10 years ago and you will find almost all of them were against civil unions and similar laws at that time. I am sure that in 10 more years you will see more states having compromised on civil unions and such.

You are ignoring the fact that this is a process that has been ongoing and has (despite your bold statements to the contrary) been decided overwhelmingly in favor of your position. Granted, most of society is against gay marriage, buyt they are in favor of civil unions and other laws which protect rights of unmarried couples regardless of sexual orientation.

Also I do not want to get into the quoting of statistics and referencing websites and such. Who has the time to do that with work and all. However, it is well understood that over the past decade or so that violence against gays and lesbians has not come from outside their communities but rather from within. Despite the rare occurrence, there are no gay-bashing incidents rampantly taking place in America. Colorado and Wyoming - ten years ago two of the most conservative states politically and socially - have adopted legal protectionss for gays and lesbians and the entire demeanor of the states has been very “live and let live”. Your doom and gloom hystrionics simply do not jibe with the realities of the changes that have occurred in this counbtry. Again, you want “all or nothing” for your side’s favor and will evidently continue to spin the posts as you will to indicate that there are gross atrocities taking place against the gay community - and that is just simply not the case.

fbi.gov/ucr/hc2007/index.html

No, it is rising over time. The last few years have seen jumps in anti-glbt violence. It is not categorized as a hate crime if it’s gay on gay by the FBI. Also, in some if not many of the states that do not have hate crime law covering glbt’s, the statistics aren’t counted there, so the number of anti-glbt crimes is actually higher.

2-5% of the population has received 16% of the hate crimes.

I myself have been hospitalized twice, once was a rape attempt, because you know all lesbians need is a good romp in the hay and we’ll be straight!

So pardon me if I’m a little bitter and jaded, it’s because the world I live in is completely and utterly different than yours.

In the last year alone, four people I knew back east have been murdered for being transsexual. They weren’t friends per say, but they were in my social circle.

I beg to differ about the crimes not happening in particular areas.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

If power of attorney is no good (and it doesn’t seem to work). Exactly what are we supposed to do to declare our wishes, when hospitals are free to ignore our legal documents with impunity?

You need to sue the hospitals that ignore your legal documents. Once you do this enough, it will work.

I do not know ANYONE who believes that a person should not have the right to see who or she wants in the hospital…especially in the cases of emergency and death. Nor do I know of anyone who believes that a person should not be allowed to leave his/her estate to whomever he/she wants to at the time of death (as long as children and spouses are taken care of).

I do not know anyone who believes that people should not be able to co own property.

But the terms “marriage an civil unions” imply something much more to society.

If you fight for your equal rights (which are not marriage because marriage is not a right), then you might actually get somewhere. But the homosexual side is going for all or nothing. I pray that agenda never wins.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Though I have never been violently assaulted I have been verbally assaulted because of my sexual orientation on many occasions. I’ve had some of the most vulgar things thrown at me.

I, too have never been violently assaulted, yet I have been very verbally assaulted. It had nothing to do with my sexual orientation. I’ve had vulgar things thrown at me. Once again, it had nothing to do with my sexual orientation.

What does this have to do with anything? Some people in the world go out to attack and pick fights and bully people. Those people will always find something to bash someone about. You shouldn’t get anymore attention or priviledges than I do simply because they attacked you because of your sexual orientation. They attacked me because they didn’t like my red fingernail polish. They thought it clashed with my blue car. So they bashed me. Am I crying for special rights for people who wear red fingernail polish and drive blue cars? No. It would be ridiculous…and so is your crying because someone doesn’t like you because you are homosexual. Get over it. They would find something besides your sexual orientation to bash you about if you weren’t homosexual. Your sexual orientation doesn’t make you anymore special or priviledged than anyone else.

 

[pathia]

Get over it. They would find something besides your sexual orientation to bash you about if you weren’t homosexual. Your sexual orientation doesn’t make you anymore special or priviledged than anyone else.

The man who tried to rape me did it because he perceived me as lesbian. That was very VERY specifically done for an obvious reason. They thought they had power over me to change my orientation with sex.

I am a harder target than they imagined, but that does not change the mental scars the incident caused.

I am sorry to hear you were assaulted. Did you have the ability to get the police involved? I didn’t have that luxury. They LAUGHED at me instead. Due to the lack of laws covering me, it was not even considered a crime where I lived. The police refused to arrest the man. No records no nothing, I couldn’t even file a complaint, because there wasn’t an incident on record to reference.

People wonder why I am crazy. Try to imagine how your mind would race, freak out, as if you were in some parallel world. Something horrible just happened to you and the police laugh at you, they refuse to help you. It’s like being in a parallel world, some mockery of reality.

 

[JuneBug72]

The man who tried to rape me did it because he perceived me as lesbian. That was very VERY specifically done for an obvious reason. They thought they had power over me to change my orientation with sex.

I am a harder target than they imagined, but that does not change the mental scars the incident caused.

I am sorry to hear you were assaulted. Did you have the ability to get the police involved? I didn’t have that luxury. They LAUGHED at me instead. Due to the lack of laws covering me, it was not even considered a crime where I lived. The police refused to arrest the man. No records no nothing, I couldn’t even file a complaint, because there wasn’t an incident on record to reference.

People wonder why I am crazy. Try to imagine how your mind would race, freak out, as if you were in some parallel world. Something horrible just happened to you and the police laugh at you, they refuse to help you. It’s like being in a parallel world, some mockery of reality.

Including sexual orientation within a “hate crimes” bill allows the feds to step in and prosecute when law enforcement at the local level isn’t doing its job. (ie if you have some johnny redneck who doesn’t like blacks or gays… calling the shots in a small town). This was often the case in the south before and during the civil rights period and still occurs occasionally.

 

[pathia]

Including sexual orientation within a “hate crimes” bill allows the feds to step in and prosecute when law enforcement at the local level isn’t doing its job. (ie if you have some johnny redneck who doesn’t like blacks or gays… calling the shots in a small town). This was often the case in the south before and during the civil rights period and still occurs occasionally.

I dislike the idea of ‘thought crime’ as much as anyone. But what can I possibly do when local and state enforcement absolutely refuses to even admin that crime even took place?

I literally have no choice but to try to sue, but since there are no records? Guess what? I can’t. The ACLU lawyers actually told me if I had made such a racket they arrested me for disturbing the peace, then at least there would have been some records to act on, but as it stands there’s nothing…

 

[brazenarticle]

Unfortunately there are many cases like yours with merit and yes, those many others without merit that are usually unsuccessful for an award or a guilty verdict in your favor at the hands of a jury without strong evidence to convict that person accused. One just has to try to cope and accept it as an unfortunate life experience and march ahead and don’t dwell on the past. Think positive. It’s not about the past, it’s about the future.

 

[brazenarticle]

The man who tried to rape me did it because he perceived me as lesbian. That was very VERY specifically done for an obvious reason. They thought they had power over me to change my orientation with sex.

I am a harder target than they imagined, but that does not change the mental scars the incident caused.

I am sorry to hear you were assaulted. Did you have the ability to get the police involved? I didn’t have that luxury. They LAUGHED at me instead. Due to the lack of laws covering me, it was not even considered a crime where I lived. The police refused to arrest the man. No records no nothing, I couldn’t even file a complaint, because there wasn’t an incident on record to reference.

People wonder why I am crazy. Try to imagine how your mind would race, freak out, as if you were in some parallel world. Something horrible just happened to you and the police laugh at you, they refuse to help you. It’s like being in a parallel world, some mockery of reality.

The statement as to the man " who "tried" to rape me" is key in testimony. Not much there. It's like eatin' lettuce. Sounds like he was not successful and rape is a serious crime. Sounds like an assult with the intent would be the best you have.

 

[pathia]

Unfortunately there are many cases like yours with merit and yes, those many others without merit that are usually unsuccessful for an award or a guilty verdict in your favor at the hands of a jury without strong evidence to convict that person accused. One just has to try to cope and accept it as an unfortunate life experience and march ahead and don’t dwell on the past. Think positive. It’s not about the past, it’s about the future.

I try, but it’s very hard. I have been on anti-depressants and anti-psychotics most of my life. I cannot clear my mind on them, but I go crazy,literally, without them. I cannot go forward, I cannot go back, I am just sort of in a stasis.

 

[brazenarticle]

It’s off topic here as to any of that. Be careful and don’t over medicate which can really do much more harm than good. Keep the faith. If Catholic, why not say a Novena and don’t forget about praying to St. Jude and ask the good Lord for strength and healing. It takes a lot of years sometimes.

Sometimes when it all seems so good and it’s all going your way, you may be going the wrong way. Challenges are inevitable in life.

 

[The_Smiter]

Though I have never been violently assaulted I have been verbally assaulted because of my sexual orientation on many occasions. I’ve had some of the most vulgar things thrown at me.

Understood. And it is unfortunate. You r3easones albeit short response seems to indicate a person of succinct clarity and I hope you participate more in the discussion. But if you read my posts, do you think that I have never been verbally assaulted by those who oppose my viewpoints - despite the charitable way I attempt to engage the discussion? Of course I have. But the exceptions are the people who react in such ways - they are not the reactions of the majority of people who engage in debate.

Any verbally abusive or physically violent reactions are wrong and unfortunate. So let’s try not to use them in our debate.

 

[The_Smiter]

fbi.gov/ucr/hc2007/index.html

No, it is rising over time. The last few years have seen jumps in anti-glbt violence. It is not categorized as a hate crime if it’s gay on gay by the FBI. Also, in some if not many of the states that do not have hate crime law covering glbt’s, the statistics aren’t counted there, so the number of anti-glbt crimes is actually higher.

2-5% of the population has received 16% of the hate crimes.

I myself have been hospitalized twice, once was a rape attempt, because you know all lesbians need is a good romp in the hay and we’ll be straight!

So pardon me if I’m a little bitter and jaded, it’s because the world I live in is completely and utterly different than yours.

In the last year alone, four people I knew back east have been murdered for being transsexual. They weren’t friends per say, but they were in my social circle.

I beg to differ about the crimes not happening in particular areas.

I am sorry for you rexperiences. Bad people do horrible things and although we can pray for them, we know that God will mete out justice and mercy to those who deserve each.

Thyis is getting off the topic, but although they exist on paper, I do not believe in hate crimes. That is “thought police” kinbd of stuff. If someone kills someone else, does it matter if ti was because they hated them or if it was absent of animus? the victim is still dead.

You can cite sources all you want, but it is the very thing like “hate crimes” that massage the figures to make it seem as if crimes of this nature are rising. They are not.

 

[pathia]

I am sorry for you rexperiences. Bad people do horrible things and although we can pray for them, we know that God will mete out justice and mercy to those who deserve each.

Thyis is getting off the topic, but although they exist on paper, I do not believe in hate crimes. That is “thought police” kinbd of stuff. If someone kills someone else, does it matter if ti was because they hated them or if it was absent of animus? the victim is still dead.

You can cite sources all you want, but it is the very thing like “hate crimes” that massage the figures to make it seem as if crimes of this nature are rising. They are not.

The police refused to arrest the man who tried to rape me. They laughed at me. I had no legal recourse, because there was zero documentation. They refused to even take our names, or give me their badge numbers. When I started asking too many questions and raising a fuss, they informed me if I didn’t shut up they’d arrest me for prostitution. Given I was homeless at the time and penniless, there’s no way I’d have any defense against that accusation.

I will stop calling for hate crime legislation when the local police actually do their job and get off their butts and actually protect me and exercise their duty to uphold the law.

 

[The_Smiter]

The statement as to the man " who "tried" to rape me" is key in testimony.  Not much there.  It's like eatin' lettuce.  Sounds like he was not successful and rape is a serious crime.  Sounds like an assult with the intent would be the best you have.

Brazenarticle,

Respectfully - if you disagree with someone’s viewpoint then it is proper to discuss it. But if someone says that something has happened to them, I am inclined to agree with them on this forum. It is uncharitable to attempt to whittle down one’s experienceshtat they are presenting, especially when they are so cutting and have resulted in such violence.

If I may assert - I think that you were just trying to help the person to whom you were responding clarify a legal point of description. But it could have been done in a more understanding and less harsh manner.

Not trying to make hay - just help to clarify so we can all continue a healthy and charitable discussion.

The Smiter.

 

[pathia]

The statement as to the man " who "tried" to rape me" is key in testimony.  Not much there.  It's like eatin' lettuce.  Sounds like he was not successful and rape is a serious crime.  Sounds like an assult with the intent would be the best you have.

Exactly my point, they refused to arrest him even for assault despite my busted up face and my ripped clothing.