Should the story of David's seduction of Bathsheba be read at mass?

[1ke]

No, but suppose I were a neophyte who attended mass that Friday only and did not get the full context of the story provided by the following days’ readings.

A *neophyte *is a newly baptized/confirmed individual. Such an individual would have received instruction on the doctrines of the Church prior to being baptized/received into full communion.

What would I think? I would be very confused and possibly even think the Catholic Church supports adultery!

I just have to say I find this to be a completely ridiculous statement.

The pre-Vatican II liturgical calendar focuses on the most important select readings, not quoted out of context; it enables one constantly to solidify one’s fundamental understanding of our Catholic faith. The current calendar, however, presents far too many readings related, but still auxiliary, to those readings of the fundamentals of our faith.

This reading is in no way “quoted out of context.”

Again, I think what you propose is utterly ridiculous and not based in any fact and certainly not in line with the mind of the Church in this matter.

I

 

[Timothysis]

No, but suppose I were a neophyte who attended mass that Friday only and did not get the full context of the story provided by the following days’ readings. What would I think? I would be very confused and possibly even think the Catholic Church supports adultery! The pre-Vatican II liturgical calendar focuses on the most important select readings, not quoted out of context; it enables one constantly to solidify one’s fundamental understanding of our Catholic faith. The current calendar, however, presents far too many readings related, but still auxiliary, to those readings of the fundamentals of our faith.

How old are you? This sounds like the reasoning of an 8 year old. If you have such a naive understanding of theology to suggest that someone might think that the Church supports adultery because of this reading, then you need to start again at square one.

 

[Joannm]

By this reasoning, you can’t read one of my favorite books at Mass. How many times have you heard the Song of Songs? All right, confession time! My name is The Fool and I am a Song of Songs addict. I can’t stop reading it. :tiphat:I enjoy reading Song of Songs and do it frequently! Anybody else willing to admit that?!:

I love the Song of Songs…and yes, it is meant to be an erotic love poem. I too wish it was read at Mass. It is beautiful. The only time I hear it is sometimes at weddings and only that part about the young stag and the gazelle leaping.

Do you know John of the Cross was greatly influenced by the SOng of Songs?

 

[tundramom]

By this reasoning, you can’t read one of my favorite books at Mass. How many times have you heard the Song of Songs? All right, confession time! My name is The Fool and I am a Song of Songs addict. I can’t stop reading it. :tiphat:I enjoy reading Song of Songs and do it frequently! Anybody else willing to admit that?!:

I am!

I love that book. I was taught, as a Mormon, that no one should read that book. I don’t know for sure that it was taught to all Mormons or just to the people in my ward. (that’s what Mormons call a local parish of sorts). It was even told to me that I should rip it out and burn it. Being the obedient (not) mormon girl I was back then, I read it a lot.

in Christ
Steph

 

[Ganyssa]

As a former sola scriptura evangelical Protestant, I was always told that Catholics don’t read the Bible.

If I had attended Mass to discover that only the ‘important’ books of the Bible were used in the Mass, I probably would have scooted right back where I came from instead of making plans to come home.

 

[redrosetea]

On Friday of the 3rd week of Ordinary Time in Year II (catholic-resources.org/Lectionary/2002USL-Weekdays-OT-II.htm), the story of David’s seduction of Bathsheba (2 Sam 11:1-4a, 5-10a, 13-17) is read at mass! How is this appropriate for getting one’s mind in the proper state to receive Holy Communion?

I’d say pretty proper if you are engaging in adultery, or thinking about doing it…For goodness sake just how do you think we can be taught if we aren’t given an example of crime and punishment according to scripture

Anyone who becomes aroused by hearing this needs to seek professional help, and a priest to confess to…

 

[mhazell]

No, but suppose I were a neophyte who attended mass that Friday only and did not get the full context of the story provided by the following days’ readings. What would I think?

I’d think “oh, I’d better read the rest of that part of the Bible”.

Come on. It’s not like the only time Catholics can read their Bible is at Mass!

 

[Tsuwano]

On Friday of the 3rd week of Ordinary Time in Year II (catholic-resources.org/Lectionary/2002USL-Weekdays-OT-II.htm), the story of David’s seduction of Bathsheba (2 Sam 11:1-4a, 5-10a, 13-17) is read at mass! How is this appropriate for getting one’s mind in the proper state to receive Holy Communion?

It’s appropriate because it is a story of sin, repentance, mercy, reconciliation and forgiveness. Reflecting on these aspects of the human relationship with God and God’s endless desire to reconcile us to himself is an excellent way to prepare us to receive the Holy Eucharist.

 

[benedictgal]

I love the Song of Songs…and yes, it is meant to be an erotic love poem. I too wish it was read at Mass. It is beautiful. The only time I hear it is sometimes at weddings and only that part about the young stag and the gazelle leaping.

Do you know John of the Cross was greatly influenced by the SOng of Songs?

Actually, if you look at the readings for the feast of St. Mary Magdalene:

On my bed at night I sought him
whom my heart loves –
I sought him but did not find him.
I will rise then and go about the city;
in the streets and crossings I will seek
Him whom my heart loves.
I sought him but did not find him.
The watchmen came upon me,
as they made the rounds of the city:
Have you seen him whom my heart loves?
I had hardly left them
when I found him whom my heart loves.
I took hold of him and would not let him go.

This is from the Songs of Songs, and, it is the first reading for her feast.

 

[Geremia]

I just have to say I find this to be a completely ridiculous statement.

Then can you provide a reason why it was never read at mass before the post-Vatican II liturgical reforms? It is not like the Church in the times of, for example, the Council of Trent was unreasonable and in modern times the Church is somehow more enlightened; this is the error of Modernism that, among others, Pope St. Pius X warned about.

This reading is in no way “quoted out of context.”

How?

Again, I think what you propose is utterly ridiculous and not based in any fact and certainly not in line with the mind of the Church in this matter.

Proof? Reasons?

 

[Geremia]

How old are you? This sounds like the reasoning of an 8 year old. If you have such a naive understanding of theology to suggest that someone might think that the Church supports adultery because of this reading, then you need to start again at square one.

I do not appreciate the ad hominem. You should be ashamed of yourself. If you want to talk with me about this issue, then ask relevant questions.

 

[Geremia]

Who should edit the Bible?

I did not say we should change the canon of the Bible!

 

[Geremia]

By this reasoning, you can’t read one of my favorite books at Mass. How many times have you heard the Song of Songs? All right, confession time! My name is The Fool and I am a Song of Songs addict. I can’t stop reading it. :tiphat:I enjoy reading Song of Songs and do it frequently! Anybody else willing to admit that?!:

Yes, we can read whatever book of the Bible we want on our own, but does this mean we should read the whole Bible during mass in three years?

 

[Geremia]

I’d say pretty proper if you are engaging in adultery, or thinking about doing it…For goodness sake just how do you think we can be taught if we aren’t given an example of crime and punishment according to scripture

Anyone who becomes aroused by hearing this needs to seek professional help, and a priest to confess to…

Of course, Confession is a great sacrament.

 

[Catholic90]

Yes, we can read whatever book of the Bible we want on our own, but does this mean we should read the whole Bible during mass in three years?

Why WOULDN’T we want to read the whole Bible?
WHY would you want to exclude ANY of it from mass?

 

[LilyM]

Reading the story of David and Bathsheba is not going to cause problems for any neophyte in this regard, any more than reading the story of Jesus rescuing the woman caught in adultery, or reading about Jesus discussing the love life of the woman who had five husbands and who was not married to her current partner.

Both of which might equally be construed as at least tacit approval of adultery, by those incredibly rare beings who don’t know the Church’s teaching on adultery which is the same as that of every Christian church.

Yes, the EF lectionary left that story out - it left out well over HALF of the readings that the OF uses. None of them were left out because they were considered INappropriate. As has been stated Scripture is God’s word, none of it could possibly be inappropriate to be read in His worship.

They were left out simply because, having only a one-year-cycle of readings in the EF, the focus had to be on the MOST important and significant portions of scripture, and there were enough others that poor ol’ Bathsheba didn’t make the final cut.

 

[Lujack]

Then can you provide a reason why it was never read at mass before the post-Vatican II liturgical reforms? It is not like the Church in the times of, for example, the Council of Trent was unreasonable and in modern times the Church is somehow more enlightened; this is the error of Modernism that, among others, Pope St. Pius X warned about.How?Proof? Reasons?

Ah, now hold on a second. It is not the heresy of modernism to suggest that the Church can improve the reading cycle. Modernism is to suggest that the Church’s teachings need to change to keep up with the times, but it is not modernism to suggest that it is possible to improve the forms through which the Church expresses those teachings.

 

[Geremia]

Why WOULDN’T we want to read the whole Bible?
WHY would you want to exclude ANY of it from mass?

This is the question I seek to answer. I want to know why the creators of the, for example, Missale Plenum chose the readings they did for it. The Missale Plenum evolved into the Missale Romanum and eventually into the modern missal. This might be useful: Catholic EncyclopediaMissal

 

[Geremia]

A *neophyte *is a newly baptized/confirmed individual.

Sorry, I meant to say something like “someone poorly catechized.”

 

[Geremia]

Who should edit the Bible?

No, that is not what I said.