L
Lepanto
Guest
Currently they are only optional. (Ordinary form - Latin Rite.)
Why or why not?
Why or why not?
- Status
C
Caesar
Guest
They should be mandatory. The ringing of bells is traditionally a sign that a miracle has occured. The Blessed Sacrament is the greatest miracle of all.
P
piusphilistine
Guest
No, traditionally if was not an audible sign of a miracle, but rather a voice of thanksgiving for the miracle of miracles.
That misrepresentation is what anti-sanctus bell critics use to dissuade their use. “Now that the Mass is in the vernacular and the priest is facing the people there is no longer a need for a sign…”
The Church has said they are optional. While I love them, I’ll stick with the Church’s position as She knows best…
B
bakhita
Guest
I remember a priest once commenting that he was glad that we didn’t have the sanctus bells anymore because it made it seem like a doorbell–like “Oh, He’s here now!”
He felt it de-emphasized the Liturgy of the Word too much and he wanted to make it clear that Jesus is present in the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist.
I think we should have a more widespread use of the sanctus bells because it would get the attention of people to realize something special and miraculous is happening. There are too many people in the Church who don’t know or don’t believe that Jesus is really present in the Eucharist. I think the sanctus bells would be a start in the right direction.
He felt it de-emphasized the Liturgy of the Word too much and he wanted to make it clear that Jesus is present in the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist.
I think we should have a more widespread use of the sanctus bells because it would get the attention of people to realize something special and miraculous is happening. There are too many people in the Church who don’t know or don’t believe that Jesus is really present in the Eucharist. I think the sanctus bells would be a start in the right direction.
S
scylla
Guest
Sanctus Bells are a good and holy tradition to hold, as they are a sign of the greater truth that is happening. They should be used whenever possible, as we should always give the most to God.
Kind of like genuflecting when you enter Church, it is an acknowledgement of the truth that Christ is there.
It points to Christ in the same way. It is not necessary just like genuflecting is not necessary as Christ will still be there whether we do the bells or don’t but it is a recognition of the reality of Christ.
The objection I have heard is it distracts, this can be valid if the priest is very jumpy and the bells are very loud. I would say that might be the case in a very small number of circumstances and that could be remedied with the priest requesting the bells be done softly. In the silence they would still be heard announcing the solemnity of the moment.
God Bless
Scylla
Kind of like genuflecting when you enter Church, it is an acknowledgement of the truth that Christ is there.
It points to Christ in the same way. It is not necessary just like genuflecting is not necessary as Christ will still be there whether we do the bells or don’t but it is a recognition of the reality of Christ.
The objection I have heard is it distracts, this can be valid if the priest is very jumpy and the bells are very loud. I would say that might be the case in a very small number of circumstances and that could be remedied with the priest requesting the bells be done softly. In the silence they would still be heard announcing the solemnity of the moment.
God Bless
Scylla
B
bpbasilphx
Guest
The original purpose of the Sanctus bell at the altar was to signal the crew in the bell tower to ring the big bells appropriately to let people who weren’t in church know what was happening.
S
Sr_Sally
Guest
That is very interesting.
We have about split. Some priests here use them, some don’t. I like them mostly because they are pretty sounding. Whatever the original purpose, you can’t miss the miracle in a regular Mass now unless you are completely asleep! LOL
S
scylla
Guest
The original purpose is good (except in those areas where cities are trying to get rid of Church bells), yet I strongly recommend a focus on the meaning that accompanies it.
I recently read a book on the liturgy which broke down every part looking at it’s origins. It seemed to reduce the view of liturgy as just a bunch of parts that didn’t mean much, instead of looking at the whole and it’s meaning. The danger of this is a reduction of each element to historical notes instead of the cohesive meaning behind our worship.
I understand that bread originally was just used as food, but it has been elevated by Jesus to more than that. In the same way bells have been elevated, to point toward Jesus in a way that unites us in acknowledgement of His presence.
God Bless
Scylla
J
jrnami
Guest
I like them. I don’t think they need to be required. Sometimes there are no altar servers. There should, also, be some room for individual parish traditions and preferances.
P
pprimeau1976
Guest
I don’t think they should be required. I think that the church needs to do a better job of correcting the liturgical abuses that already exist before it worries about sanctus bells.
T
true_believer
Guest
I don’t think that they should be required, but my parish recently returned to the practice of using the sanctus bells, and I feel that they add a measure of reverence to the mass.
I believe that the time that they are rung fits nicely with the act of bowing your head and striking your breast which is called for during the consecration of the host because the bells call people in the mass to more fully reverence the miracle taking place.
I believe that the time that they are rung fits nicely with the act of bowing your head and striking your breast which is called for during the consecration of the host because the bells call people in the mass to more fully reverence the miracle taking place.
S
scylla
Guest
After seeing the responses I see absolutely no reason they should not be required, in the sense that they should be used whenever possible.
Unless there is some circumstance that necessitates the omittance of the bells they should be used.
If the priest has some sort of disability that makes him not able to say mass when hearing something like bells.
If there are no bells or the ability to purchase them.
If there are no servers to ring them
I cannot think of any other exceptions, you guys might.
These are all perfectly good reasons to not use them as exceptions to the rule. Otherwise since they are a good thing they should be used, as we should do our utmost to give the best to God.
God Bless
Scylla
Unless there is some circumstance that necessitates the omittance of the bells they should be used.
If the priest has some sort of disability that makes him not able to say mass when hearing something like bells.
If there are no bells or the ability to purchase them.
If there are no servers to ring them
I cannot think of any other exceptions, you guys might.
These are all perfectly good reasons to not use them as exceptions to the rule. Otherwise since they are a good thing they should be used, as we should do our utmost to give the best to God.
God Bless
Scylla
P
piusphilistine
Guest
Actually that’s not true.
The ringing of large tower bells at specific points in the Mass is a FAR older tradition that ringing hand-held sanctus bells. In fact to this day, some bell-lofts still have a bell dedicated as the “sanctus bell.”
P
piusphilistine
Guest
Neither is specified for the Pauline Mass to my knowledge.
P
piusphilistine
Guest
Well, the biggest reason of all is the Church has bad their use optional, so celebrants are free to choose. Some reasons for not ringing them that I have heard:
- “A special signal is no longer needed now that the Mass is in the vernacular; the priest faces the people; disuse of rood screens.”
- Their sound ruins what should be a deeply contemplative moment.
- Interrupts the continuity of the Mass.
- Poorly trained altar servers. This can be horrible.
- Can rattle (literally) some priests.
S
scylla
Guest
None of those are good reasons as they are the result of the bad implementation of their use except for the first reason. I agree that it is optional but should it be required, I think so.
This is akin to saying to saying that we shouldn’t get married because people divorce. The abuse or poor performance of an action does not negate the goodness of that action. That just means that the action could be\should be performed better or properly.
I agree that if the priest has a disorder which would make him react abnormally when a small bell rings then that would be a valid reason also if it is impossible to do so then how can it be done.
Yet we should focus on doing the best for God, not just the minimum but the maximum. Just as in genuflecting is not necessary but good, it should be done if possible.
Just because a cloth on the altar is not necessary for the sacrament to be confected it is best and should always be there. Just because we do not need vestments on the Priest to make the Sacrament valid, he should wear them.
Not just because of the rules but because it is the good thing to do.
Unless we want to argue that it is not a good thing, that would make for a good discussion.
God Bless
Scylla
This is akin to saying to saying that we shouldn’t get married because people divorce. The abuse or poor performance of an action does not negate the goodness of that action. That just means that the action could be\should be performed better or properly.
I agree that if the priest has a disorder which would make him react abnormally when a small bell rings then that would be a valid reason also if it is impossible to do so then how can it be done.
Yet we should focus on doing the best for God, not just the minimum but the maximum. Just as in genuflecting is not necessary but good, it should be done if possible.
Just because a cloth on the altar is not necessary for the sacrament to be confected it is best and should always be there. Just because we do not need vestments on the Priest to make the Sacrament valid, he should wear them.
Not just because of the rules but because it is the good thing to do.
Unless we want to argue that it is not a good thing, that would make for a good discussion.
God Bless
Scylla
B
benedictgal
Guest
Vestments are a requirement for the Mass. According to Redemptionis Sacramentum:
At my dad’s parish, bells are used. At the cathedral, the same practice applies. Interestingly enough, at St. Peter’s Basilica in Rome (and, even when Mass is celebrated in St. Peter’s Square), they use a fairly large bell that is tolled once during the Consecration of the Body and once for the Consecration of the Blood. That one tone sounds beautiful and is rather loud, loud enough for the sound to be picked up by the Vatican TV microphones.
Unfortunately, the bells aren’t used at my parish, nor were they used at my old parish in Austin. This is sad because it is a very beautiful custom that should be preserved. Have we become so modernized and so trendy that we have completely abandoned what is truly beautiful in the name of stark modernity?
C
ClaireS
Guest
No, IMHO they should be permitted but not REQUIRED. In a hugh building where people cannot see or hear easily they would be useful. In my small parish church I prefer the reverent silence. Ring them before and after mass to drown out the talking instead.
Oh, you specified SANCTUS bells, Well, that would be good to get people’s attention but since we are all praying Holy, holy, holy out loud they would be superfluous
Oh, you specified SANCTUS bells, Well, that would be good to get people’s attention but since we are all praying Holy, holy, holy out loud they would be superfluous
C
Cavaille-Coll
Guest
True. In fact, this bell was sometimes mounted in a little gable over the roof of the sacristy rather than in the main part of the tower. In places like Bavaria, one of the larger bells is pealed throughout the prayer of consecration while a pair of handbell clusters (one high pitched, the other low pitched) are sounded at the altar steps. Some older American churches still have tubular chimes that can be rung by pushbuttons mounted on the altar step, and these sound very much like a doorbell. Those mushroom-shaped bronze altar gongs sound nicer.
B
benedictgal
Guest
Thank you. That’s what that “gong” that they use at the Vatican looks like. Our Cathedral’s first rector bought one when he went to Rome. It sounded nice, but, the kids broke the hammer.
It was lovely while it lasted.- Status