Should the West reject Islam as a religion?

[Dolores49]

This may be the only solution the West has to protecting the Constitution and our traditions.

As you know, Islam is BOTH a religious faith AND political doctrine.

Islam 101 jihadwatch.org/islam101/

Resource ****THE CENTER FOR THE STUDY OF POLITICAL ISLAM. An excerpt from the CSPI book 'THE POLITICAL TRADITIONS OF MOHAMMED is available to read online:

The Political Traditions of Mohammed cspipublishing.com/pdfs/WebSitePDF/PolTradWebSite.pdf

Deceit / Lying is permitted:

Deceit is part of Islamic war against the nonbelievers.
B4,52,267 Mohammed: “The king of Persia will be destroyed, and no one
shall assume his throne. Caesar will certainly be destroyed and no Caesar
will follow him; his coffers will be spent in Allah’s cause.” Mohammed cried
out, “Jihad is deceit.

The name for deception that advances Islam is taqiya (safeguard, concealment,
piety). But a Muslim must never lie to another Muslim. A lie should
never be told unless there is no other way to accomplish the task Al Tabarani,
in Al Awsat, said, “Lies are sins except when they are told for the welfare of
a Muslim or for saving him from a disaster.”

DOSTOEVSKY IN MANHATTAN

French author Andre Glucksmann in an interview says radical Islam is, in fact, nihilism.

opendemocracy.net/faith-iraqwarphiloshophy/article_1111.jsp

 

[IvanKaramozov]

This may be the only solution the West has to protecting the Constitution and our traditions.

As you know, Islam is BOTH a religious faith AND political doctrine.

Islam 101 jihadwatch.org/islam101/

Resource ****THE CENTER FOR THE STUDY OF POLITICAL ISLAM. An excerpt from the CSPI book 'THE POLITICAL TRADITIONS OF MOHAMMED is available to read online:

The Political Traditions of Mohammed cspipublishing.com/pdfs/WebSitePDF/PolTradWebSite.pdf

Deceit / Lying is permitted:

Deceit is part of Islamic war against the nonbelievers.
B4,52,267 Mohammed: “The king of Persia will be destroyed, and no one
shall assume his throne. Caesar will certainly be destroyed and no Caesar
will follow him; his coffers will be spent in Allah’s cause.” Mohammed cried
out, “Jihad is deceit.

The name for deception that advances Islam is taqiya (safeguard, concealment,
piety). But a Muslim must never lie to another Muslim. A lie should
never be told unless there is no other way to accomplish the task Al Tabarani,
in Al Awsat, said, “Lies are sins except when they are told for the welfare of
a Muslim or for saving him from a disaster.”

DOSTOEVSKY IN MANHATTAN

French author Andre Glucksmann in an interview says radical Islam is, in fact, nihilism.

opendemocracy.net/faith-iraqwarphiloshophy/article_1111.jsp

You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Whilst I don’t disagree with your criticisms, I don’t think “the West” is concerned enough about it’s own religion. So, I’d think it’d be hypocritical to condemn other religions.

My perception is that “the West” couldn’t give a damn about religions, not even it’s own.

:twocents:

 

[ricko]

Never be ashamed for the truth.

 

[Dolores49]

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Pray tell. Why should I be ashamed of myself?

You should explain yourself.

 

[SacredHeartFan]

Pray tell. Why should I be ashamed of myself?

You should explain yourself.

How would you like it if someone told you that your religion was a political powerhouse and that everyone should not accept it at all and stop believeing.

 

[Contarini]

Pray tell. Why should I be ashamed of myself?

You should explain yourself.

Because you are dishonestly stereotyping and overgeneralizing Islam in the first place, and in the second place your abominable proposal matches exactly the anti-Catholic polemic promulgated for centuries by Protestant countries. This is exactly the excuse that Queen Elizabeth’s government used to justify the torture and murder of Catholic priests. It wasn’t religious persecution, don’t you know, because they were political agents of a foreign power. Anti-Catholic American Protestants right through the election of JFK, while not going quite that far (!), used this same argument to claim that Catholics couldn’t possibly be good Americans.

Edwin

 

[IvanKaramozov]

Pray tell. Why should I be ashamed of myself?

You should explain yourself.

I don’t know, perhaps I over reached.

Generally, when I use deceptive propaganda to universally slander a religion and its adherents and promote ignorant bigotry, I am ashamed

but that’s me

Islamic scholars are not in agreement as to the proper link to Islam and politics; Islamic scripture is quite vague on the matter except that the states activities and laws should occur in accordance with the moral systems of Islam.

The proper interaction between Islam and the state, a relationship which you haphazardly presented as a settled matter is an area of tense debate in the “Muslim” world.

Again with taqiya, you past over it as though there were some central doctrine and thought on that matter, of course in reality there is wide division between Sunni and Shia on how far this may go, some say taqiya is only acceptable for the preservation of the individuals life, while shia tend to use it much more liberally.

TO say Islam is a nihilistic trend is simply an error of vocabulary.

You have taken complex, ancient disputes and academic disagreements, pasted them together in the worst possible light, and then thrust them forth is a stunning show of demonization and one more instance of hysterical bigotry towards a minority in the West.

The fact that you represent yourself as an activist and writer while pushing propaganda and sensationalism, the dishonesty, and the circulation of cheep hyperbolic gossip are all reasons to be ashamed.

The fact that such propaganda helps promote the fear and intolerance that get’s Muslim women in hajib’s dirty looks is a reason to be ashamed, the fact that this is contributing to the continued prejudice against Muslims on the right is a reason to be ashamed, and the fact that you have associated such a brilliant author with this nonsense(whom, by my screen name I’m sure you can tell, I am a fan of) is a reason to be ashamed, the fact that this contributes to the ignorance and bigotry that leads an individual to drive a dear friend of mine into tears when she was told(or rather screamed at) “We’re at war with your religion” is a reason to be ashamed

have I explained myself?

 

[Dolores49]

How would you like it if someone told you that your religion was a political powerhouse and that everyone should not accept it at all and stop believeing.

Now, that’s just silly. I did not suggest anything close to that. I have Muslim colleagues whom I have repect for. We are pro-life warriors against Planned Parenthood.

IvanKaramzov quote: “The fact that you represent yourself as an activist and writer while pushing propaganda and sensationalism, the dishonesty, and the circulation of cheep hyperbolic gossip are all reasons to be ashamed.”

I feel harshly misjudged. You are attacking me PERSONALLY. Stop it.

Ivan you are presenting yourself as being very prideful and make ridiculous claims about my “associations”: “. . . and the fact that you have associated such a brilliant author with this nonsense (whom, by my screen name I’m sure you can tell, I am a fan of) is a reason to be ashamed, the fact that this contributes to the ignorance and bigotry that leads an individual to drive a dear friend of mine into tears when she was told(or rather screamed at) “We’re at war with your religion” is a reason to be ashamed.”

end of Ivan quote.

Recap

I posed the question to this forum to start a conversation about protecting the U.S. Constitution from defering to or giving in to Sharia Law. Muslims all over the world need dhimmis to pay a tax.

I suggest you visit another Forum Thread, ****SHARIA LAW IN U.K. IS ‘UNAVOIDABLE’

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=217293

I am very afraid that giving deference to a religion that is imposing laws - like in the U.K. - will destroy the West forever.

The purpose of rejecting Islam in the U.S. would be to enable us to investigate mosques in the U.S. The purpose would be to expose radical imams who ARE advocating violence hatred toward non-Muslims. We can’t stop them now as it is.

Last year in Salt Lake City, Utah a Muslim left a mosque and headed to a little shopping mall armed with weapons. He opened fire on shoppers.

What do YOU suggest we do to stop Sharia? Or is Sharia an inevitability? (See

 

[paarsurrey]

Should the West reject Islam as a religion?

Hi

I think through this gesture no useful purpose would accrue to the West.

Interfaith understanding is the need of the hour, in my opinion.

Thanks

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Islam is a shiny new toy for Christians to be distracted with. Before that it was the Communists.

In the meantime, 17 years ago Bush Sr. signed Public Law 102-14 which advocates Noahide Laws of the Talmud for Gentiles, among which says Christians should have their heads chopped off for blasphemy and idolatry for worshiping the fake God Jesus. Now Jews sit as head of Homeland Security and other key positions in government.

Wake up.

 

[Valke2]

Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That March 26, 1991, the start of the ninetieth year of Rabbi Menachem Schneerson, leader of the worldwide Lubavitch movement, is designated as `Education Day, U.S.A.’. The President is requested to issue a proclamation calling upon the people of the United States to observe such day with appropriate ceremonies and activities.

YOu should spend more time playing X Box and less time surfing anti-semetic websites.

 

[Reuben_J]

My perception is that “the West” couldn’t give a damn about religions, not even it’s own.

:twocents:

I think this is a faulty statement. While I can understand that you may be reacting to a post, that statement is nevertheless an over-simplication of the sittuation. It may be true that the trend of the West is towards less religousness and even apostasy, but there are still many Christians today who care deeply about God and about their countries being Christians.

As the Pope says, the West, specifically Europe, is Christian nations and it should stay that way.

Islam is alien to us, and its practice and idealogy do not fit into Christian nations, as much as Saudi Arabia will not want anything other than Islam.

I would say let the voice of true Christians be heard, at least in this forum. Much of it has been drowned by the secular world, materialism and relativism. We need to go back to the basic. We must never under-estimate the power of genuine faith to change the world. Maybe that’s why we are called the people of hope.

God bless.

 

[Wolseley]

Islam is a shiny new toy for Christians to be distracted with. Before that it was the Communists.

And before that it was the Nazis and the Imperial Japanese.

But all four of them do have this one thing in common: their demand was that we either convert to their system of belief, or die.

 

[rpp]

This may be the only solution the West has to protecting the Constitution and our traditions.

As you know, Islam is BOTH a religious faith AND political doctrine.

Islam 101 jihadwatch.org/islam101/

Resource THE CENTER FOR THE STUDY OF POLITICAL ISLAM. An excerpt from the CSPI book 'THE POLITICAL TRADITIONS OF MOHAMMED is available to read online:

The Political Traditions of Mohammed cspipublishing.com/pdfs/WebSitePDF/PolTradWebSite.pdf

Deceit / Lying is permitted:

Deceit is part of Islamic war against the nonbelievers.
B4,52,267 Mohammed: “The king of Persia will be destroyed, and no one
shall assume his throne. Caesar will certainly be destroyed and no Caesar
will follow him; his coffers will be spent in Allah’s cause.” Mohammed cried
out, “Jihad is deceit.

The name for deception that advances Islam is taqiya (safeguard, concealment,
piety). But a Muslim must never lie to another Muslim. A lie should
never be told unless there is no other way to accomplish the task Al Tabarani,
in Al Awsat, said, “Lies are sins except when they are told for the welfare of
a Muslim or for saving him from a disaster.”

DOSTOEVSKY IN MANHATTAN

French author Andre Glucksmann in an interview says radical Islam is, in fact, nihilism.

opendemocracy.net/faith-iraqwarphiloshophy/article_1111.jsp

Delores, as someone else from the Portland Oregon area, I share your concern.

After all, I am dismayed that an aide to a former mayor, who was the mayor at the time of the 9/11 attacks, was arrested and is now spending time in federal prison on terrorism charges after returning from Afghanistan to fight for the Taliban. I am troubled that Portland is the only city in the USA that has withdrawn from the Joint Terrorism Task Force. That there are local government officials who illegally promote Islam in schools while forbidding
the mention of Christianity.

You do not exaggerate. You should not be ashamed. I appreciate your efforts.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

YOu should spend more time playing X Box and less time surfing anti-semetic websites.

You wish it was from stormfront or something, I’m sure. But this is from the government and Jewish websites.

US PUBLIC LAW 102-14

Whereas Congress recognizes the historical tradition of ethical values and principles which are the basis of civilized society and upon which our great Nation was founded; Whereas these ethical values and principles have been the bedrock of society from the dawn of civilization, when they were known as the Seven Noahide Laws; Whereas without these ethical values and principles the edifice of civilization stands in serious peril of returning to chaos; Whereas society is profoundly concerned with the recent weakening of these principles that has resulted in crises that beleaguer and threaten the fabric of civilized society; Whereas the justified preoccupation with these crises must not let the citizens of this Nation lose sight of their responsibility to transmit these historical ethical values from our distinguished past to the generations of the future; Whereas the Lubavitch movement has fostered and promoted these ethical values and principles throughout the world;

IDOLATRY AND DECAPITATION

A gentile who worships false gods is liable to the death penalty, provided he worships them in the regular form in which that particular deity is usually worshiped.

Apart from a few exceptions, the death sentence for a Ben Noach is Sayif, death by the sword / decapitation, the least painful of the four modes of execution of criminals (see the Rambam’s Hilchos Melachim 9:14).

 

[lukewarm]

What I don’t understand about Islam, Judaism, and to an extent Christianity is why they revere Abraham attempting to murder his son based on a message from God only he could hear? If someone pulled this today he would be locked up. Not to mention I just don’t see how that is an awesome act of faith? Is the lady who microwaves her baby under God’s orders even more faithful?

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

What I don’t understand about Islam, Judaism, and to an extent Christianity is why they revere Abraham attempting to murder his son based on a message from God only he could hear? If someone pulled this today he would be locked up. Not to mention I just don’t see how that is an awesome act of faith? Is the lady who microwaves her baby under God’s orders even more faithful?

Which lady microwaved her son under God’s orders?

And which man actually went ahead and sacrificed his own son? (Yes, think about that one.)

 

[Valke2]

You wish it was from stormfront or something, I’m sure. But this is from the government and Jewish websites.

US PUBLIC LAW 102-14

Whereas Congress recognizes the historical tradition of ethical values and principles which are the basis of civilized society and upon which our great Nation was founded; Whereas these ethical values and principles have been the bedrock of society from the dawn of civilization, when they were known as the Seven Noahide Laws; Whereas without these ethical values and principles the edifice of civilization stands in serious peril of returning to chaos; Whereas society is profoundly concerned with the recent weakening of these principles that has resulted in crises that beleaguer and threaten the fabric of civilized society; Whereas the justified preoccupation with these crises must not let the citizens of this Nation lose sight of their responsibility to transmit these historical ethical values from our distinguished past to the generations of the future; Whereas the Lubavitch movement has fostered and promoted these ethical values and principles throughout the world;

IDOLATRY AND DECAPITATION

A gentile who worships false gods is liable to the death penalty, provided he worships them in the regular form in which that particular deity is usually worshiped.

Apart from a few exceptions, the death sentence for a Ben Noach is Sayif, death by the sword / decapitation, the least painful of the four modes of execution of criminals (see the Rambam’s Hilchos Melachim 9:14).

No, I know it is from Stormfront and other such websites. A “Whereas” clause does not set forth new law or requirements. The Resolution clause (which I posted) does. All the law does is establish a National education day in honor of a rabbi. There’s no law requiring obedience to the Noahide Laws and there’s no penalty provisions whatsoever mentioned in the “law”, which means it is an impossible law to break. Or if you were to ignore it there would be no penalties.

As for the death penalty aspect, it is essentially a legal fiction. Rabbinic Judaism has never adjudicated one single case of a gentile violating the Noahide laws. One of the Noahide laws requires the establishment of a just legal and judicial system. If that is in existence, then the non-jew’s own people/legal system decide on their own what is a crime and what is the penalty. And of course there has been no enforceable death penalty in Judaism for about 2,000 years or more and when it was in existence, it was rarely used – much less rarely than the U.S. uses it today, for example.

A little icing on the cupcake:

In January 2004, the spiritual leader of the Druze community in Israel, Sheikh Mowafak Tarif, signed a declaration calling on all non-Jews in Israel to observe the Noahide Laws as laid down in the Hebrew Bible and expounded upon in Jewish tradition. The mayor of the Galilean city of Shefa-'Amr (Shfaram) - where Muslim, Christian and Druze communities live side by side - also signed the document. The declaration includes the commitment to make a better, more humane world based on the Seven Noachide Commandments and the values they represent commanded by the Creator to all mankind through Moses on Mount Sinai.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

No, I know it is from Stormfront and other such websites. A “Whereas” clause does not set forth new law or requirements. The Resolution clause (which I posted) does. All the law does is establish a National education day in honor of a rabbi. There’s no law requiring obedience to the Noahide Laws and there’s no penalty provisions whatsoever mentioned in the “law”, which means it is an impossible law to break. Or if you were to ignore it there would be no penalties.

I learned about these years ago from Chabad, so if you want to say they are antisemitic go ahead. I never said there is a law for them to be enforced, I said there is a law advocating them for US citizens and there it is.

As for the death penalty aspect, it is essentially a legal fiction. Rabbinic Judaism has never adjudicated one single case of a gentile violating the Noahide laws. One of the Noahide laws requires the establishment of a just legal and judicial system. If that is in existence, then the non-jew’s own people/legal system decide on their own what is a crime and what is the penalty. And of course there has been no enforceable death penalty in Judaism for about 2,000 years or more and when it was in existence, it was rarely used – much less rarely than the U.S. uses it today, for example.

Death penalty in Judaism is irrelevant since these Laws are for Gentiles, not Jews, two different systems. But they are interpreted by Jews from the Talmud, who the Gentile Bush said are great teachers, and decapitation is the prescribed penalty for violating Noahide. So that influence is obviously there.

A little icing on the cupcake:

In January 2004, the spiritual leader of the Druze community in Israel, Sheikh Mowafak Tarif, signed a declaration calling on all non-Jews in Israel to observe the Noahide Laws as laid down in the Hebrew Bible and expounded upon in Jewish tradition. The mayor of the Galilean city of Shefa-'Amr (Shfaram) - where Muslim, Christian and Druze communities live side by side - also signed the document. The declaration includes the commitment to make a better, more humane world based on the Seven Noachide Commandments and the values they represent commanded by the Creator to all mankind through Moses on Mount Sinai.

Ok, not sure what the point is.

You admit that a lot of Jews say worshiping Jesus is idolatry right? Seems like you are trying to whitewash it all, I freely admit Islam has some harsh teachings.