Should this be permitted? Your opinions please

[devoutchristian]

We get it Thomas, you don’t discriminate, you just exclude people who marry non-Knanaya Catholics.

 

[LilyM]

Ah and here is the underlying problem, all people who have not met Knanayas think the quote written above is our ideology. Please everyone who may read this thread,please understand The Knanaya Christians DO NOT discriminate against other Christians, we are for our traditions and customs, and an important custom being endogamy. Trust me there is not a single Knanaya who thinks we are above other Christans or other Christians are unworthy to celebrate in our churches. This is not the ideology of the Knanaya Church, we are just zealots for our faith and traditions, nothing more.

In all honesty do any of you think the Catholic Church would allow a diocese to grow and continue on racist ideals? And also please remember endogamy is a choice, no one is forcing this upon anyone. Once the individual is eligible for marriage he/she makes a personal decision whether to marry Knanaya or not to and if he chooses not to, there is no problem and no one is stopping him/her to do so. I myself have plenty of cousins and even siblings who married Non-Knanaya, even though they married out of the community I see them no differently, they are still my family and the lot of them still come to Knanaya Church though there membership is with the parish of their Non-Knanaya spouse.

The Catholic Church has in the past tolerated all manner of things which we now know to be downright evil, such as slavery. Not knowing any better. Tolerance is not the same thing as approval.

And since you no longer accept those relatives of yours as members of your parish, you clearly DO now see them differently than you did previously.

It’s as if you came to America and were told ‘you can visit here as long as you want, but you can never ever hope to be a citizen’. Can you not see how this immediately puts you in a second class? It means you are forever denied important privileges such as the right to vote and stand for most government positions (and hence to participate in the running and leadership of your country). It means you won’t be protected as a citizen would be when abroad. It means you will not be eligible for some jobs and some social security benefits, things like that. It puts you forever on the back foot.

Similarly, to be denied membership of your parish means these poor people might well turn up every week, worship alongside you and donate every cent they can afford and every minute they can spare, but still be denied a voice in the community, a voice to which their contribution makes them every bit as entitled as you are.

Did Jesus ask any of His Apostles who their parents were? What race they were? what cultural practices they followed?

 

[BrethrenBoy]

What is the difference between the Knanaya parishes and the other parishes in the Syro Malabar Church? Is it just the ethnicity of the members? If so, then I would say your refusal to allow non-Knanayas to be members would be racism. It would be equivalent to me telling you you can not be an Anabaptist because you are not German.

If someone is attending your church every week and adopting your beliefs then I would think they would be following the same traditions and customs as you, as least as far as religion is concerned. I fail to see how being born in a different culture than most of the members of a church should stop me from becoming a member of that church.

 

[Thomas48]

The Catholic Church has in the past tolerated all manner of things which we now know to be downright evil, such as slavery. Not knowing any better. Tolerance is not the same thing as approval.

And since you no longer accept those relatives of yours as members of your parish, you clearly DO now see them differently than you did previously.

It’s as if you came to America and were told ‘you can visit here as long as you want, but you can never ever hope to be a citizen’. Can you not see how this immediately puts you in a second class? It means you are forever denied important privileges such as the right to vote and stand for most government positions (and hence to participate in the running and leadership of your country). It means you won’t be protected as a citizen would be when abroad. It means you will not be eligible for some jobs and some social security benefits, things like that. It puts you forever on the back foot.

Similarly, to be denied membership of your parish means these poor people might well turn up every week, worship alongside you and donate every cent they can afford and every minute they can spare, but still be denied a voice in the community, a voice to which their contribution makes them every bit as entitled as you are.

Did Jesus ask any of His Apostles who their parents were? What race they were? what cultural practices they followed?

Actually that would not be a correct example, because the Knanaya Catholics do not have their own sui juris (even though most people see it as one). We are members of the Syro Malabar Church, and in your example the Syro Malabar Church would be America and Kottayam Diocese would be one of her states. So what I am coming to is, that if a “citizen” of Kottayam Diocese marries outside of his “state” he does not loose membership to his entire “country” he is still and will always be if he chooses a member of the Syro Malabar Church.

Knanaya Catholics who marry outside the community know well for a fact that they will loose membership to their parish and their diocese, this they have been taught their entire life, they are not walking into this decision blindly. So these are not a group of “poor people” begging to regain membership. Also these Non-Knanayas will always have a say in the parish of there spouse and the entire Syro Malabar Church.

The policy in India is that those who marry Non-Knanaya loose their entire membership to their Knanaya Parish and Kottayam Archdiocese. The policy in America (this was a decision by the Vatican), Knanayas may have parishes just for Knanayas but those parishioners who marry Non-Knanaya will not loose membership to their Knanaya Parish but there Non-Knanaya spouses and children may never gain membership. After this decision was taken Metropolitan Mar Mathew Moolakattu said to those who marry Non-Knanaya “where you can take part in, take part, where you can’t, don’t”. He is basically saying to the Non-Knanayas, it is best for you and your family that you should choose to go to the parish of your Non-Knanaya spouse.

Also, I do not see my Non-Knanaya family members any differently, I would have no reason to. Remember The Knanaya Catholic Church, is in actuality a community with a Syro Malabar diocese respective to there traditions.

What is the difference between the Knanaya parishes and the other parishes in the Syro Malabar Church? Is it just the ethnicity of the members? If so, then I would say your refusal to allow non-Knanayas to be members would be racism. It would be equivalent to me telling you you can not be an Anabaptist because you are not German.

If someone is attending your church every week and adopting your beliefs then I would think they would be following the same traditions and customs as you, as least as far as religion is concerned. I fail to see how being born in a different culture than most of the members of a church should stop me from becoming a member of that church.

The difference between Knanaya parishes and Syro Malabar Parishes is a whole list of community traditions, especially those traditions of marriage. Endogamy is of course a major factor but there are many Knanaya Customs distinct from that of Syro Malabar customs.

 

[Thomas48]

Various Customs & Traditions of Knanaya Catholics :

A) Marriage:

1. Kaipidutham - Betrothal Ceremony by blessing the hands of the uncles of bride & bridegroom by the priest.
2. Koluvilakku - Lighted oil-lamp placed near the bride and bridegroom for Mylanchi Ideel & Chamtham Charthal. This lamp is also used to welcome the couple after the wedding. This lamp signifies the presence of Maran Yesu, the light of the world.
   3.Chamtham Charthal - Purification or beautification of the bridegroom by shaving the face & bathing with oils, etc on the eve of the marriage.
   4.Mylanchi Ideel - Beautification of the palms and feet of bride by the leaves from “Mylanchi” shrub on the eve of marriage. This signifies the purification of hands and feet from the original sin committed by Adam and Eve.
   5.Ichapad Kodukkal - Ceremony of giving sweet pudding to the bride and to the groom in their home after the beautification ceremony.
   6.Bar Mariam Song - An ancient Syriac prayer in praise of Jesus as Son of Mary, sung by the priests and the laymen at the end of the marriage ceremony in the church.
   7.Nada Vili - Cheers given to the bride and bridegroom while going home from the church after the marriage (It also serves to Alert the wedding receptionists to complete their final touches).
3. Vazhu Pidutham - The rite of giving God’s blessing to bride and groom by the mother of the bride by placing her hands in the form of a cross on their heads.
4. Kacha Thazhukal - A ceremony using a new piece of cloth given to bride’s relatives as a gift by the groom’s party (Usually to bride’s mother, grandmother & maternal uncle/aunt).
5. Nellum Neerum - Sign of cross done using the blessed palm leaves (from Palm Sunday) wetted in the patty (rice) water, on the forehead of the bride & bridegroom wishing them God’s blessing and happiness.
6. Ven Paachor - A special sweet rice porridge ceremoniously given to the new couples after marriage.
7. Adachu Thura - Shutting and opening of the bride’s chamber at the end of the marriage festivities at home.
8. Illa Panam - A small amount of money is given to the bride’s party by the groom’s people as offering to the churches.

B) Funeral:

1. Drinking from the blessed Coconut - To show that the sons and the daughters of the dead should live in fraternal communion.
2. Folding the Plantain Leaf for Meals - This reminds that King Cheraman Perumal honored Thomas Knai and party by giving them two plantain leaves for royal dinner.
3. Thazhukal - Embracing relatives of the dead person in the church after the funeral, to express the condolence.
4. Blessing -The Knanite father at his death bed gives a traditional blessing to the children by placing his hand on the head of each one of them while reciting an invocation which he is supposed to know by heart.

-The Blessing, which God gave to Abraham
-The Blessing, which Abraham gave to Isaac
-The Blessing, which Isaac gave to Jacob
-The Blessing, which Jacob gave to my forefathers
-The Blessing, which my forefathers gave to my father
-The Blessing, which my father gave me
-The same blessing, dear son/daughter, I give to you
-This type of blessing is typical of Old Testament and Jewish blessing formulas

C) Other:

1. Maargam Kali and Patt - Religious dance (ballad) performed in the connection with joyful religious and social functions. The songs contain accounts of the appostolic work by St.Thomas and the voyage and migration of Thomas Kinai and his group.
2. Puraathana PaattukaL (Ancient Songs) - Traditional songs sung by the participants and relatives during marriage ceremonies and festivities.

D) Ancient/Traditional Knanaya Songs

1. Vandana Ganam
2. Vazhvenna Vazhu
3. Ponnaninjeedum
4. Pizha Vazhikku
5. Othu Thirichivar
6. Om Thintha
7. Munnam Malankara
8. Moovarurvan
9. Mar Thoma Nanmayal
10. Maramodu
11. Mar Thoma
12. Maran Yesu Padavi
13. Mangathangam
14. Managunamudaya
15. Maran Arul
16. Manikya Kallu
17. Kondu Nadukunna
18. Karayaum Kadalum
19. Innu Nee Njangale
20. Halleluyah
21. Evvanum
22. Enne Nee
23. Ennatharuchu
24. Chintha Theli
25. Bar Mariam
26. Arulchaithe
27. Anandam Vazhu
28. Alam Chamanja
29. Maran Mar Yesu Alaha Nayan
30. Aadathe Nyan
31. Porumo Namellam

 

[LilyM]

Actually that would not be a correct example, because the Knanaya Catholics do not have their own sui juris (even though most people see it as one). We are members of the Syro Malabar Church, and in your example the Syro Malabar Church would be America and Kottayam Diocese would be one of her states. So what I am coming to is, that if a “citizen” of Kottayam Diocese marries outside of his “state” he does not loose membership to his entire “country” he is still and will always be if he chooses a member of the Syro Malabar Church.

Knanaya Catholics who marry outside the community know well for a fact that they will loose membership to their parish and their diocese, this they have been taught their entire life, they are not walking into this decision blindly. So these are not a group of “poor people” begging to regain membership. Also these Non-Knanayas will always have a say in the parish of there spouse and the entire Syro Malabar Church.

The policy in India is that those who marry Non-Knanaya loose their entire membership to their Knanaya Parish and Kottayam Archdiocese. The policy in America (this was a decision by the Vatican), Knanayas may have parishes just for Knanayas but those parishioners who marry Non-Knanaya will not loose membership to their Knanaya Parish but there Non-Knanaya spouses and children may never gain membership. After this decision was taken Metropolitan Mar Mathew Moolakattu said to those who marry Non-Knanaya “where you can take part in, take part, where you can’t, don’t”. He is basically saying to the Non-Knanayas, it is best for you and your family that you should choose to go to the parish of your Non-Knanaya spouse.

Also, I do not see my Non-Knanaya family members any differently, I would have no reason to. Remember The Knanaya Catholic Church, is in actuality a community with a Syro Malabar diocese respective to there traditions.

The difference between Knanaya parishes and Syro Malabar Parishes is a whole list of community traditions, especially those traditions of marriage. Endogamy is of course a major factor but there are many Knanaya Customs distinct from that of Syro Malabar customs.

I am sorry but this makes no sense. If I become a citizen of the US that automatically means that I have the right to live exactly where I want, as long as I do not commit a crime or something equally morally reprehensible.

To use my analogy again, If I want to live permanently in, say, Philadelphia, it is because I want to fully participate in that community - which means such things as voting in local elections, running for local offices or more generally having a voice in what goes on in the local area.

It would be the height of illogicality for the US government to say to me ‘you can live and thus obtain rights to vote etc wherever you like in the US - except that you can never vote or hold office in Philadelphia even of you live there for the rest of your life there unless your parents were born there and you agree only ever to marry someone who was also born there’.

So it should be among we who call ourselves Christian - anyone who desires to be part of a parish should have that right regardless of race, language, what dances they know or choice of spouse. How can there possibly be neither Jew nor Greek before God but there can be Knanaya and non-Knanaya? It defies logic.

Point is, who my mother and father were, and the culture of my spouse, has no bearing on whether I am a fit person to be a good citizen of Philadelphia and so vote and hold office etc. It would indeed be discrimination if I were to be denied these rights on such an irrelevant basis.

Neither do they have anything to do with whether I am a fit person to be a good member of your parish and exercise all the privileges attached to membership. So it is equally discriminatory (although not illegal) for you to deny me membership of your parish based in such irrelevant factors.

The nonsense of it becomes even more apparent when one considers that the true earthly head of your faith - the final arbiter in all matters to do with your parish - is actually the Pope, who is definitely not Knanaya.

 

[Filii_Dei]

Unfortunately this seems like a very complicated affair. At the most basic level, I personally believe that no parish should restrict membership based upon ethnicity to the extent that those associate with a different ethnicity are forced to leave. Usually, such principles are clear enough for me to make a judgement.

However, as much as they are part of the universal Catholic Church, this is an entirely different culture and place. As an Asian, I have seen first-hand how many disagreements arise from a misunderstanding about the other’s culture and customs, especially by those who have not been exposed to it, so I cannot rule out something similar occurring here. As such, I would like to caution against simply wading into this debate without any prior knowledge of the situation. I’m just to read up more about this and observe how this discussion develops.

 

[LilyM]

Unfortunately this seems like a very complicated affair. At the most basic level, I personally believe that no parish should restrict membership based upon ethnicity to the extent that those associate with a different ethnicity are forced to leave. Usually, such principles are clear enough for me to make a judgement.

However, as much as they are part of the universal Catholic Church, this is an entirely different culture and place. As an Asian, I have seen first-hand how many disagreements arise from a misunderstanding about the other’s culture and customs, especially by those who have not been exposed to it, so I cannot rule out something similar occurring here. As such, I would like to caution against simply wading into this debate without any prior knowledge of the situation. I’m just to read up more about this and observe how this discussion develops.

Of course there are sometimes grave difficulties getting people of different cultures and customs to rub along. The solution is not segregation but education and continuing dialogue.

 

[Filii_Dei]

Of course there are sometimes grave difficulties getting people of different cultures and customs to rub along. The solution is not segregation but education and continuing dialogue.

I hope you did not misunderstand my post. I am not advocating segregation. I am encouraging us to educate ourselves more about the culture of the Christians of South India and to keep in mind the possibility of cultural differences, so that we can engage in dialogue that has both meaning and understanding.

And that is why I said:

I’m just to read up more about this and observe how this discussion develops.

 

[Thomas48]

It would be the height of illogicality for the US government to say to me ‘you can live and thus obtain rights to vote etc wherever you like in the US - except that you can never vote or hold office in Philadelphia even of you live there for the rest of your life there unless your parents were born there and you agree only ever to marry someone who was also born there’.

And this is the reason exactly why Mar Mathew Moolakattu and the Knanaya Community tell the non-Knanayas and those who married out of the community, “where you can take part in, take part, where you cannot, don’t”. Basically that means go to a Syro Malabar Church or the church of your spouse where you are entitled to membership and other rights, It does not make sense for you to go to a Knanaya Church where you have no membership.

Also please note endogamy is not really a big deal among the Christians of Kerala, nobody really cares. Everyone knows the Knanayas have their traditions and the other Christians theirs. It seems that westerners are the only ones that seem to be making a big deal. Even the Syriac Orthodox Church allows the Knanaya Jacobites full endogamous parishes in the U.S.

 

[daffyjoe]

Dear friends,
I replied to Thomas in my earlier posts but he argues that he is always right and pope and other establishment of church is wrong. He says he just prefer endogamy over other church practices.The answers and debates with him is followed up in this thread . Actually it was happened because he tried to post his newly established distinguishable customs in the name of Syro Malabar Christians where he don’t considers himself as Syro-malabarian.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=746837

Since it is reiterating to post the statements here, I am sharing the link here. Kindly go through it and justify yourself.
Regards and peace only with Jesus
Jo

 

[Thomas48]

Dear friends,
I replied to Thomas in my earlier posts but he argues that he is always right and pope and other establishment of church is wrong. He says he just prefer endogamy over other church practices.The answers and debates with him is followed up in this thread . Actually it was happened because he tried to post his newly established distinguishable customs in the name of Syro Malabar Christians where he don’t considers himself as Syro-malabarian.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=746837

Since it is reiterating to post the statements here, I am sharing the link here. Kindly go through it and justify yourself.
Regards and peace only with Jesus
Jo

I don’t remember saying that I am always right, just that fact that these institutions were created for Knanaya Christians in respect to their customs and by this factor, these customs should not be revoked. Also Daffy I consider my self Syro Malabar but also a Knanaya of Kottayam Diocese but it seems that you have said many times you don’t consider Knanayas members of the Syro Malabar Church.

My Quote-

we maybe members of two diocese me Kottayam and you Thrissur but we are both Syro Malabar brethren right?

 

[Zekariya]

I don’t care if people want to only marry within their own people. That is their choice. Membership in a particular parish or diocese should not be based on ethnicity. It should be based on the Catholic Faith.

If I (a white person of european descent) am faithful to the doctrines of the Catholic Church, will I be denied membership at your parish?

 

[devoutchristian]

I don’t care if people want to only marry within their own people. That is their choice. Membership in a particular parish or diocese should not be based on ethnicity. It should be based on the Catholic Faith.

 

[Aramis]

I don’t care if people want to only marry within their own people. That is their choice. Membership in a particular parish or diocese should not be based on ethnicity. It should be based on the Catholic Faith.

I Agree! Well said, too!

 

[Thomas48]

Here’s whats happened after the events of December 20th.
THESE ARE NOT MY WORDS
Link to the source- chicagokna.blogspot.com/2013/02/lies-lies-and-green-lies-chronology-of.html
**
VG- **Vicar General.
**Bishop A- **Mar Jacob Angadiath of the St.Thomas Syro Malabar Diocese.
Bishop Moolakat Formula- Include the Knanites who married the non-Knanaya spouses to our parishes but not his/her non-Knanaya spouse or children.
**Bishop Angadiath Formula- **Include all Knananites/Non-Knananites to Knanaya Catholic Parishes.
**KCCNA EC- **Knanaya Catholic Congress of North America Executive Committee.

Dec 20, 2012
VG sends the pastoral directive of Bishop A to all Knanaya parishes to be read out during mass on Dec 23
Dec 23, 2012
Some priests including VG read the English letter during mass and claim it is Moolakatt formula. Few priests chose not to read, but said a summary claiming Moolakat formula was accepted by Bishop A. Across the board VG and Priests claimed Victory.
Dec 24, 2012:
The pastoral letter became public through Blogs. There is widespread concern in the community regarding the contents. Community members started to question the intent.
Dec 24/25, 2012:
VG and some Priests reiterated during Christmas Masses that the letter is nothing but Moolakatt Formula. VG also claimed it is because of KCCNA Bishop A wrote the letter in St. Mary’s in Chicago
Dec 26, 2012:
Blogs Flash that Fr. Muthoalth has left Kottayam diocese and joined Syro diocese in Chicago
Dec 27, 2012:
KCCNA EC sends a letter to community members informing their unanimous decision to reject the directive of Bishop A and ask community members all over North America denounce the directive
Dec 29, 2012:
VG said he did not yet incardinate into Syro Diocese and claimed he asked Bishops to stop the process. He also asked people to not to call him on this subject. Actually it was a LIE he was incardinated weeks before.
Dec 30, 2013:
VG wrote in Knanaya Media that the new directive is Moolakatt formula and this is the BEST deal for the community. VG also answered questions from Bijo Karakadan as if the directive from Mar A is the salvation of Knanaya Community in North America
Dec 30/31, 2012:
Knanaya association across North American Started to reject he directive of Mar Aand started to share their resolutions to Community.
Jan 4, 2013:
KCCNA served a legal notice on behalf of North American Knanaya Community to Syro-Malabar diocese accusing the diocese of misleading the community through the decrees that created the parishes/missions as well as through letters from the VG who was appointed to lead Knanaya Region. The legal notice sought specific clarifications as to who are and who are not members of Knanaya Parish/missions – response requested by Jan 20, 2013
Jan 6/13/20, 2013; Feb 3/10, 2013
Knanaya Parish/mission pothuyogams across North America started to reject the order from Mar A. In most cases the Vicars refused to join the deciions of the parish Assembly instead Vicars/mission directors dissented the resolutions of Pothuyogams.
Jan 14, 2013:
VG deletesall his previous parish bulletins from Knanaya region website most likely fearing of exposure in public of his effort to mislead the community
Jan 15, 2013
KCCNA formalize a committee that is formed specifically to handle this issue.

 

[Thomas48]

Continued

Jan 20, 2013:
VG sends a resolution to Knanaya parishes and missions asking priests to read out during mass and pass without discussion. Passing this resolution would have undermined the entire Knanaya Community by making them agree that they knew parishes were non-endogamous when they created them. VG literally tried to CHEAT the entire community in this effort.
Community members in Atlanta and Chicago refused to adopt this resolution from VG and as a result VG’s plan to CHEAT community DID NOT work out.Thus the resolution to cheat community members died.
Jan 20, 2013:
KCCNA president informed the community about the legal notice and the rationale. KCCNA president also made it clear that in the absence of transparency on the membership, North American Knanaya Community will take DECLARATORY ACTIONS.
Jan 24-27, 2013:
KCCNA formally hire a law firm in Chicago. In addition, KCCNA had preliminary discussion on a peaceful demonstration in front of the Syro-Malabar Diocese of Chicago
Jan 29, 2013:
KCCNA president was invited to meet with the legal advisor of the Arch Diocese of Kottayam.
Feb 2/3, 2013:
KCCNA president met with the legal advisor of the Arch Diocese of Kottayam. Based on rather reliable sources the legal advisor may have handed over some key documents to support legal proceedings in the US. In addition, KCCNA president also met with Bishop Pandarasseril and updated the Bishop on the steps the community is planning to take in the US.
Feb 5, 2013:
It is rumoured that probably in a teleconference with priests of the Knanaya Region, the VG suggests that “lets all claim we all stand for Endogamous parishes.” His fellow priests refused to agree by saying “we should stand with our people and we are not supportive of cheating people again”
Feb 5-6, 2013:
KCCNA EC formalizes the decision to conduct a demonstration in front of the Bishop’s house of Syro-Malabar Diocese of Chicago.
Feb 9, 2013:
KCCNA EC and the special committee formed to address the current issues informed member association about the demonstration and there is great enthusiasm among the member associations on this.
Feb 10, 2013:
KCCNA president set up an appointment to meet with Bishop Angadiath for the following day with the help of Fr. Antony Thundathil.
Feb 11, 2013:
KCCNA president and RVP of Chicago meet the lawyers and confirm that Knanaya Community has valid arguments on 2 counts. 1 – Fraud by the diocese to mislead the community; 2 –Right to practice our customs and traditions even within church.
Feb 11, 2013:
KCCNA president and RVP of Chicago met with Bishop A and inform him of pending legal steps and the planned demonstration. Bishop requested to avoid both. However KCCNA asked for concrete action including submitting the petition that KCCNA drafted with the help of Ecclesiastial Enhancement Committee of KCCNA.Though initially reluctant, Bishop Agreed to review and support the petition. KCCNA demanded that Bishop needs to personally go to Rome to submit the petition if he is a Champion of Knanaya Cause. Bishop also clarified that in his view Family is a single unit and cannot be separated in church. Bishop A also made it clear that Knanaya VG knew the Bishop’s position on membership all along and if VG claims innocence, it is not true.
Feb 12, 2013:
Chicago RVP of KCCNA hand delivered the petition drafted by KCCNA for the review of Bishop Angadiath.
Feb 13, 2013:
KCCNA president connected with Arch Bishop Moolakatt and informed the Bishop about the developments and the steps taken by Knanaya Community including legal strategy.
Feb 14, 2013:
Both the Bishops from Kottayam and Knanaya region priests including VG have a teleconference. Following three things transpired:

1.          Priests informed that the collections in churches have gone down drastically;

2.          Somehow we need to stop demonstration;

3.          We need to stop litigation because that will make the Syro Dioese Bankrupt.

Several ideas flowed which included:

1.          VG requested our Bishops to write another letter saying that Bishop A’s letter is in fact Moolakatt formula– Bishops and priests did not agree to the idea

2.          Meeting with Major Arch Bishop for a solution– VG said there is  no need to go there initially. However other priests and bishops thought that is the best path.

3.          Our Bishops asked VG to come to meet with the Major Arch Bishop. VG refused initially, however with the pressure from our Bishops and priests he finally agreed.

4.          All the priests requested our Bishops to Include KCCNA representation in the delegation so that Knanaya Community is properly represented.  VG reluctantly agreed to that as well but said “I will not call KCCNA president, one of you can.”

Feb 14, 2013:
KCCNA leadership was asked bythe spiritual director of their availability to meet with Major Arch Bishop on Feb 26th. KCCNA agreed to be present at the meeting. Couple of priests also requested to avoid demonstration, however KCCNA said without concrete steps, we will not cancel demonstration or legal action.
Feb 15, 2013:
KCCNA once again met with lawyers in Chicago and asked them to proceed with the 1st phase of legal action.
Feb 16, 2013:
KCCNA president informed the community about the legal steps as well as intense negotiation that were going on behind the scenes with the church Hierarchy in Chicago, Kottayam and Ernakulam. KCCNA president also formally informed the community about the demonstration that will takes place on March 3rd in Chicago
Feb 17, 2013:
VG sends another letter claiming, he was doing everything and as a result there is a meeting between him, KCCNA president and Major Arch Bishop.

 

[Thomas48]

I pray this meeting between Mar George Allencherry and the community goes well, or else it seems that KCCNA will sue the St.Thomas Syro Malabar diocese on the charge of misleading the community and other conditions. I hope this timeline of events has made it quite clear on how willing Knananites are to fight for their traditions.

 

[Zekariya]

I pray this meeting between Mar George Allencherry and the community goes well, or else it seems that KCCNA will sue the St.Thomas Syro Malabar diocese on the charge of misleading the community and other conditions. I hope this timeline of events has made it quite clear on how willing Knananites are to fight for their traditions.

I wouldn’t fight to keep the ethinically impure from being members of my Catholic parish. You can marry who you want to marry. The Catholic Faith is One. If you adhere to the Catholic Faith, you may become a member in any of her parishes.

 

[malphono]

While I don’t have a vested interest in this thread, I will interject another comment anyway.

I wouldn’t fight to keep the ethinically impure from being members of my Catholic parish. You can marry who you want to marry. The Catholic Faith is One.

Yes, of course.

If you adhere to the Catholic Faith, you may become a member in any of her parishes.

Except, of course, that unless one physically relocates, one does not exactly choose his/her parish. The law says it’s all by geography and, often times, not logical or proximate geography either. This applies to the Latin Church (where it does happen that a person may reside 100 feet from a church but is canonically ascribed to a different parish miles away), as much as it does to the Eastern/Oriental Churches, albeit that they’re far more spread-out. So, no, one really cannot pick to which parish one is ascribed.

Anyway, looking at the Syro-Malabar eparchial website, I count 16 Knanaya parishes & missions in the US. From what I see there (and perhaps I’m mistaken), it appears that wherever there is a Knanaya parish or mission there is also a “regular” Syro-Malabar parish or mission (it may not be “next door” but still in the same general area). That leads me to think that what they have is a jurisdictional overlap, and it would seem that this was done on purpose in order to address the sensibilities of the Knanaya faithful.

It does not seem to be that, where a Knanaya marries a non-Knanaya, the person is expelled from the Church. Yes, it may be that the person would no longer be ascribed to his/her particular Knanaya parish/mission (they would, rather be ascribed to neighboring “regular” Syro-Malabar parish/mission, but that is very different from being denied membership in the Church. And the person could, of course, still attend and participate in the life of the Knanaya parish/mission, although their canonical records would be held at the “regular” Syro-Malabar parish/mission.

Maybe it’s just me, but frankly, I really don’t see a problem with that.