Should this be permitted? Your opinions please

[daffyjoe]

Dear Thomas48,
It is not your fault. Too much of endogamy (as you had now claimed) makes the generations with lack of simple mental abilities such as general understanding of simple assertions. With the communications from the thread I came to understand that you are just a victim of it.

Kna 3 posses a high match to Isreal, so how can you say he does not posses “J2Cohen”. In the summary of the first DNA report the summary clearly states “this community has a unique genetic grouping because of historical endogamy with minimal exogamous marriages from the local Kerala Community”. It also states " this DNA report has given truth to the historical narrative of Knanayas migrating from the Middle East". Knanaya history clearly states that for one of two reasons these East Syriac Christians left the Middle East, one was to help restore the Church of Malabar or two which was to escape Christian persecution in the Middle East.

Please go through my earlier posts. (I guess it is just non sense on arguing with you.) there are 2 types of genetic tests. 1) y-haplogroup 2) m-DNA test. You fellows just conducted the second one and says “HURRAY, We finally found it”…kindly go through the first test. I guess it is with you. please publish it.

I don’t understand where people always get the assumption Knanayas were Jewish. They were just Early Christians who still clung to Jewish practices. Note that not once in this thread I posted Knanayas were Jewish but only that they were Early Christians. Also note that even on the Knanaga History written on the website of Kottatam Archdiocese it claims no where that we were Jews, only that we were Jewish Christians, which means Early Christians that still practiced Jewish Custom.

Claims are just claims and you fellows fail on every tests that nullify your fabricated history. To adopt a custom after 1945 from other cultures are not difficult. Might be due to gulf migration during 1950s and resulting cultural boom, some group emerged and said, “see we are superior, finally our race got a country also,”Israel”. Kottayam arch-diocese once said more goofs regarding your superiority claims.

I understand your stance on Knanayas not being Jewish as the Chazikan theory goes and after viewing the DNA results I can understand your point. But you must agree that by viewing the DNA results, Knanayas were endogamous East Syriac Christians from the Middle East who, I guess we can say tried there best to keep endogamy pure? But initially had few exogamous marriages? The evidence from the DNA and the summary of the Dna Tribes Company supports the historical Knanaya Claim.

Sorry, nope. I strongly believe in science. Kindly provide us a single J2 haplogroup and you got it. As you can see about 40% of Syrian Christians in kerala possess it. Other wise ask kottayam arch diocese to conduct a DNA test for all members and excommunicate all the false elements within you because you says you were pure jewish Christians. Else please keep silence.

 

[Thomas48]

Dear Thomas48,
It is not your fault. Too much of endogamy (as you had now claimed) makes the generations with lack of simple mental abilities such as general understanding of simple assertions. With the communications from the thread I came to understand that you are just a victim of it.

Please go through my earlier posts. (I guess it is just non sense on arguing with you.) there are 2 types of genetic tests. 1) y-haplogroup 2) m-DNA test. You fellows just conducted the second one and says “HURRAY, We finally found it”…kindly go through the first test. I guess it is with you. please publish it.

Claims are just claims and you fellows fail on every tests that nullify your fabricated history. To adopt a custom after 1945 from other cultures are not difficult. Might be due to gulf migration during 1950s and resulting cultural boom, some group emerged and said, “see we are superior, finally our race got a country also,”Israel”. Kottayam arch-diocese once said more goofs regarding your superiority claims.

Sorry, nope. I strongly believe in science. Kindly provide us a single J2 haplogroup and you got it. As you can see about 40% of Syrian Christians in kerala possess it. Other wise ask kottayam arch diocese to conduct a DNA test for all members and excommunicate all the false elements within you because you says you were pure jewish Christians. Else please keep silence.

First off thats very rude that you’ve openly called me stupid and simple minded. Second off in every Knanaya thread there has been, I have not been trying to argue your beloved J2Cohen because Knanayas are not Jews but early Christians like I have explained many times.

That small 40% of Syrian Christians may contain J2cohen and whatever else DNA they please but Knanaya Christians are a differant community and they will posses differant DNA. The Knanaya Ancestry Project justifies the traditional Knanaya migration story, it claims that we have predominatly Middle Easten Ancestry. This test also shows a distinguishable DNA group which justifies historical endogamy. Now if you do strongly beleieve in Science all that proof you need is in that DNA test. But it seems that by your hate of Knananites you purposfully blind yourself by saying ridiculous statements such as we went to the Gulf Region just to acquire these Middle Eastern genes. The test shows HISTORICAL endogamy and ANCIENT ancestry, which clearly does not mean since 1945.

Also what is the need of going through both DNA tests? Through conducting the second type the DNA Tribes Company has concluded that the Knanaya Migration story is justified and factual. It easy to understand that most Knanayas posses Middle Eastern and Indian genes, like I explained earlier. But the fact of the matter is that they DO posses those Middle Eastern genes. The community may not have kept endogamy completly pure but by this test we can understand that the Migration story is not false since only Knanayas posses these certain genes. The other St.Thomas Christians may posses J2cohen/etc, and that is great for them but the Knanaya Community understandibly posses some form of Ancestry from the Middle East.

 

[Aramis]

I can understand your point SyroMalankara but for this reason above is why we must remember the Knanaya Community is just that, a community. They are in fact not a Sui Juris/Eastern Catholic Church. The greater Syro Malabar Church has missions in Tamil/Hindi/English/etc. But the Knanaya are only a minority community of the Syro Malabar Church in which whom they are permitted to have their own personal parishes.

No other non-cloistered Community is Allowed Members-only parishes. Canon Law forbids the practice.

 

[Thomas48]

No other non-cloistered Community is Allowed Members-only parishes. Canon Law forbids the practice.

If that was so Aramis, Kottayam Diocese would have been disbanded years ago. Before his death John Paul II Mar Papa said the Status Quo of Kottayam Diocese must always be withheld. Since the 1500’s Rome has been aware of the Knanaya Community, Portuguese Bishops in Kerala wrote about the Northist and Southist. For 500 years Rome has decided to allow the practices of the Knanaya Community and it seems that will not change.

 

[RubyT]

Like I said: No thanks.

That was the Old Testament and the Old Covenant.

Christ came to save ALL people.

How did you know what I was thinking. :clapping:

 

[daffyjoe]

First off thats very rude that you’ve openly called me stupid and simple minded. Second off in every Knanaya thread there has been, I have not been trying to argue your beloved J2Cohen because Knanayas are not Jews but early Christians like I have explained many times.

Rude?!! I don’t see it coming. Since your community is distinguished by not obeying canon law, it might be a feeling. Oh again you stepped down. Now you claim just early Christians. so come on what distinguishes you from Syrian catholic Christians kerala apart from the fact that your skin tone and genetics matches 100% with Thiyya community? and the cross you copied from them?

That small 40% of Syrian Christians may contain J2cohen and whatever else DNA they please but Knanaya Christians are a differant community and they will posses differant DNA.

True. Then your community consists of 100% impurities. Once again, L-type haplogroup (Which contains in your DNA) is found only in Thiyyas and Ezhavas in southern India.

The Knanaya Ancestry Project justifies the traditional Knanaya migration story, it claims that we have predominatly Middle Easten Ancestry. This test also shows a distinguishable DNA group which justifies historical endogamy. Now if you do strongly beleieve in Science all that proof you need is in that DNA test. But it seems that by your hate of Knananites you purposfully blind yourself by saying ridiculous statements such as we went to the Gulf Region just to acquire these Middle Eastern genes. The test shows HISTORICAL endogamy and ANCIENT ancestry, which clearly does not mean since 1945.

It is written in the case of 1 test.ie, kna 3.that makes his mother side genetics to middle eastern since it is m-DNA test. But what about paternal DNA.I sees it is L-type haplogroup. Whether our eyes are cheating on Us? Where are the middle eastern genes? I didn’t say you had gone to middle east and brought your middle eastern genes (except kna3’s mother side, since it contains some of them). I said,”you copied some culture from Syrian Christians in kerala and gulf region.” Where in the whole GROUP of test it says historical endogamy?

Also what is the need of going through both DNA tests? Through conducting the second type the DNA Tribes Company has concluded that the Knanaya Migration story is justified and factual.

Sorry,can you quote that for us? Where is the y-DNA results? DNA tribes didn’t said that.They said that they need more samples to analyse in which you fellows ashamed to give it.

It easy to understand that most Knanayas posses Middle Eastern and Indian genes, like I explained earlier. But the fact of the matter is that they DO posses those Middle Eastern genes.

Do you know anything about these tests? L-type is not related to middle east. Please go through any relevant document and study.

The community may not have kept endogamy completly pure but by this test we can understand that the Migration story is not false since only Knanayas posses these certain genes. The other St.Thomas Christians may posses J2cohen/etc, and that is great for them but the Knanaya Community understandibly posses some form of Ancestry from the Middle East.

Not you but all other community in kerala possess more middle eastern than you have, Even Latin catholics. But unfortunately Thomas48, your arguements becomes weak day by day. Just like any other southist, your arguements nullify itself.

 

[Thomas48]

Rude?!! I don’t see it coming. Since your community is distinguished by not obeying canon law, it might be a feeling. Oh again you stepped down. Now you claim just early Christians. so come on what distinguishes you from Syrian catholic Christians kerala apart from the fact that your skin tone and genetics matches 100% with Thiyya community? and the cross you copied from them?

True. Then your community consists of 100% impurities. Once again, L-type haplogroup (Which contains in your DNA) is found only in Thiyyas and Ezhavas in southern India.

It is written in the case of 1 test.ie, kna 3.that makes his mother side genetics to middle eastern since it is m-DNA test. But what about paternal DNA.I sees it is L-type haplogroup. Whether our eyes are cheating on Us? Where are the middle eastern genes? I didn’t say you had gone to middle east and brought your middle eastern genes (except kna3’s mother side, since it contains some of them). I said,”you copied some culture from Syrian Christians in kerala and gulf region.” Where in the whole GROUP of test it says historical endogamy?

Sorry,can you quote that for us? Where is the y-DNA results? DNA tribes didn’t said that.They said that they need more samples to analyse in which you fellows ashamed to give it.

Do you know anything about these tests? L-type is not related to middle east. Please go through any relevant document and study.

Not you but all other community in kerala possess more middle eastern than you have, Even Latin catholics. But unfortunately Thomas48, your arguements becomes weak day by day. Just like any other southist, your arguements nullify itself.

These arguements and theories you brought up Daffyjoe are only from a small community of Knanaya hating Northist. Also how many people are there that have this theory of Gounders/Thiyyas ancestry of Knanayas? What? About 30 peoplse including yourself at Nasrani.net?

Knanaya history is openly supported by bishops not just of Kottayam but the entire Syro Malabar Church. Mar Andrews Thazath spoke highly of Knanayas and said they were an extremely prideful group with a great history. Our own Major Archbishop along with Moran Mor Baselious Cleemis spoke of the great Knanaya Community at the Kottayam Diocese Centinerary Celebrations. Our history is also supported by scholars aswell who have studied it, for example Historian S. Weil and P.M Jussay, who made connections between Knanaya Wedding customs and Jewish Wedding customs. The Knanaya Historical claim is also supported by the Catholic and Syriac Orthodox Churches. The fact of the matter is that we shall always have Kottayam Archdiocese and her missions in the U.S no matter what a few Knanaya hating Northists say. Knanaya history is set in stone and it does not matter if you like it or not.

Like I stated many times in this thread, this is not a thread to argue about the ethics of endogamy or Knanaya History but to examine the decree of 1986 and see if it is justifiable. To come to the point the St.Thomas Syro Malabar Diocese openly cheated the Knanaya Community. We were promised endogamous parishes and so we bought/built parishes. It says in front of our parishes Knanaya Catholic Church and now after these parishes are established, Mar Jacob Angadiath tells the community to remove the word Knanaya from the title and add Syro Malabar. To come to the point the Knanaya Community wants what we were promised and what we paid for or else the diocese is guilty of fraud. But our problems should all disappear soon because Mar George Aplencherry heartfully listened to our plea and promised to appeal to Rome for a solution. I am happy that the Syro Malabar Church has such a great shepard who cares for his entire flock. I pray that we will hear a resolution from Rome soon.

 

[daffyjoe]

These arguements and theories you brought up Daffyjoe are only from a small community of Knanaya hating Northist. Also how many people are there that have this theory of Gounders/Thiyyas ancestry of Knanayas? What? About 30 peoplse including yourself at Nasrani.net?

Why are you going offtopic? Generally peoples do this while they are losing arguements. FYI, I don’t hate peoples but their attitudes.

Knanaya history is openly supported by bishops not just of Kottayam but the entire Syro Malabar Church. Mar Andrews Thazath spoke highly of Knanayas and said they were an extremely prideful group with a great history.

Even without a credible history I don’t know he said anything about it. And also I will not do any hate speech during my speech in someone’s funeral although he was a devil during his life (applicable in this circumstance, I think).

Our own Major Archbishop along with Moran Mor Baselious Cleemis spoke of the great Knanaya Community at the Kottayam Diocese Centinerary Celebrations.

Simple self promotion like in the book “Animal Farm”.

Our history is also supported by scholars aswell who have studied it, for example Historian S. Weil and P.M Jussay, who made connections between Knanaya Wedding customs and Jewish Wedding customs. The Knanaya Historical claim is also supported by the Catholic and Syriac Orthodox Churches. The fact of the matter is that we shall always have Kottayam Archdiocese and her missions in the U.S no matter what a few Knanaya hating Northists say. Knanaya history is set in stone and it does not matter if you like it or not.

I like that fabricated history but not from a dravidian face. But remember, many times a lie don’t make a truth.

Like I stated many times in this thread, this is not a thread to argue about the ethics of endogamy or Knanaya History but to examine the decree of 1986 and see if it is justifiable. To come to the point the St.Thomas Syro Malabar Diocese openly cheated the Knanaya Community.

Just I like to say, “WOW”.

We were promised endogamous parishes and so we bought/built parishes. It says in front of our parishes Knanaya Catholic Church and now after these parishes are established,

Oh So that is the issue, you need just paints to wash it off. Order a new board from amazon or ebay. it might help.One doubt who asked you to do so by obtaining financial support from Syro-Malabar church?

Mar Jacob Angadiath tells the community to remove the word Knanaya from the title and add Syro Malabar.

If you don’t like please remove all reference to Syro-Malabar in your churches and join latin catholics.ie Latin catholic (Knanaya). Also the skin tone and culture matches up. And stop insulting Syro-Malabar catholics with a knanaya sub genre (Please remove Syro-malabar from your profile too).

To come to the point the Knanaya Community wants what we were promised and what we paid for or else the diocese is guilty of fraud.

Not more Fraudulent than a fabricated history of knanaya/southists. Church is no way fraudulent. Catholic church just obeys Canon law especially Syro-Malabar catholics.

But our problems should all disappear soon because Mar George Aplencherry heartfully listened to our plea and promised to appeal to Rome for a solution.

I guess the solution for the problem will be the ex-communcation from catholic church for not obeying Canon law and bluffing the church with fabricated stories without any credibility.

I am happy that the Syro Malabar Church has such a great shepard who cares for his entire flock. I pray that we will hear a resolution from Rome soon.

What if the resolution is negative!!!We are happy that you fellows will not trouble us with appending Syro-malabar with your name anymore.

 

[Aramis]

Rude?!! I don’t see it coming. Since your community is distinguished by not obeying canon law, it might be a feeling. Oh again you stepped down. Now you claim just early Christians. so come on what distinguishes you from Syrian catholic Christians kerala apart from the fact that your skin tone and genetics matches 100% with Thiyya community? and the cross you copied from them?

,

be fair, they are exempted from that portion of the law, by the interpretation of the bull that established Kottayam… but only within Kottayam.

No other non cloistered group has such an accommodation, which reinforces that it is probably economia, not respect for the tradition of endogamy, that is behind the exception set they have.

Even a cloistered community must accept as parishioners any who have access to the chapel… and only a few are permitted to have the chapel where the public have no access. (Mostly female contemplative orders.)

 

[Thomas48]

Why are you going offtopic? Generally peoples do this while they are losing arguements. FYI, I don’t hate peoples but their attitudes.

I switched off the topic of DNA because that is off topic from the thread I started, which is focused around the subject of the Re-script of 1986. Also it seems we will not find a solution to that problem because I see Middle Eastern DNA in the report and you do not.

Even without a credible history I don’t know he said anything about it. And also I will not do any hate speech during my speech in someone’s funeral although he was a devil during his life (applicable in this circumstance, I think).

Simple self promotion like in the book “Animal Farm”.

So your calling 2 Major Archbishops,an Archbishop,and yourself liars? You basically just said they say false information in front of crowds just to please them but change their views when they are not around that certain crowd. I highly doubt that, I like to believe we have Major Arbishops and Bishops who do not lie. Also if said bishops are saying this to Knanayas at the Kottayam Centenary rally, how is it self promotion? The bishops are the ones who said it, Knanayas did not force them to say these kind words.

Oh So that is the issue, you need just paints to wash it off. Order a new board from amazon or ebay. it might help.One doubt who asked you to do so by obtaining financial support from Syro-Malabar church?

That is false, the Knanaya Community paid for these establishments with funds from our own pockets. The St.Thomas Diocese never once helped us pay for these churches but at the end of the year they are collecting an annual fee from our churches…

If you don’t like please remove all reference to Syro-Malabar in your churches and join latin catholics.ie Latin catholic (Knanaya). Also the skin tone and culture matches up. And stop insulting Syro-Malabar catholics with a knanaya sub genre (Please remove Syro-malabar from your profile too).

Not more Fraudulent than a fabricated history of knanaya/southists. Church is no way fraudulent. Catholic church just obeys Canon law especially Syro-Malabar catholics.

I guess the solution for the problem will be the ex-communcation from catholic church for not obeying Canon law and bluffing the church with fabricated stories without any credibility.What if the resolution is negative!!!We are happy that you fellows will not trouble us with appending Syro-malabar with your name anymore.

And who claims Knanaya History to be fraudulent? If the Knanaya Community is backed by Holy Churches and Scholars, I doubt we need to hear the view of a few who believe Knanaya history to be false.

When did I say we don’t like being Syro Malabar? Our parishes are under the Syro Malabar Church but are personal parishes of the Knanaya Community. The Knanaya Community paid for and established these churches because of the promise that they would be Fully Knanaya. Then years later after we buy these parishes, the Syro Malabar Church goes back on its word and tells us to remove the word Knanaya from our parishes. This is for a fact fraud and resulted in the Knanaya Protest in front of Mar Jacob Angadiaths House. St.Thomas Syro Malabar Diocese is liable for law suit, attorneys from Kottayam Archdiocese and KCCNA have already designed action plans if St.Thomas Syro Malabar Diocese will not cooperate.

Also please tell me who this “we” is that you speak of? You say “we” are happy for you Knanayas to leave the Syro Malabar Church. This “we” seems to be just you, this seems to be some sort of personal vendetta your having against Knanaya Christians.

 

[Thomas48]

Great News! Mar George Alencherry, Major Archbishop of the Syro Malabar Church has stated that he favors a Knanaya Diocese in the U.S and will support us in the steps to reaching this goal. If Rome approves, the Major Archbishop has established that the process towards the new eparchy shall be swift.

This will lead to the removal of 20 Knanaya Parishes from St.Thomas Syro Malabar Eparchy and the transfer of them to a newly erected Knanaya Diocese. With a Metropolitan Archdiocese in Kerala, a Diocese in the U.S, seven Knanaya Bishops, hundreds of clergy man, and two hundred thousand faithful, I see a Knanaya Sui Juris on its way.

 

[Filii_Dei]

Great News! Mar George Alencherry, Major Archbishop of the Syro Malabar Church has stated that he favors a Knanaya Diocese in the U.S and will support us in the steps to reaching this goal. If Rome approves, the Major Archbishop has established that the process towards the new eparchy shall be swift.

This will lead to the removal of 20 Knanaya Parishes from St.Thomas Syro Malabar Eparchy and the transfer of them to a newly erected Knanaya Diocese. With a Metropolitan Archdiocese in Kerala, a Diocese in the U.S, seven Knanaya Bishops, hundreds of clergy man, and two hundred thousand faithful, I see a Knanaya Sui Juris on its way.

A sui iuris church with 100% overlap with the Syro-Malabar Church? I have every respect for your community and traditons, but somehow I see this will open a whole can of worms. Actually, Rome wants to prevent the Eastern Catholic Churches from overlapping with each other’s jurisdiction especially in their homelands, because it flies in the face of the ancient principle of “one bishop, one city”, where each bishop has exclusive and ordinary jurisdiction over all Catholics in their diocese. It is true that such overlap already occurs in the new missionary countries of the Americas, but this is a product of global migration which has yet to be addressed. However, where the homelands are concerned, exclusive jurisdiction is easier to claim, and generally speaking they do not want to encourage more overlap there. A similar problem is faced by the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox. A future Knanaya Church will overlap the Syro-Malabar Church in all of its dioceses, and that will only further compound the problem of multiple jurisdictions. As I see it, the status quo is likely to be maintained.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Anyone else getting the feeling that ‘sui iurus’ - as if it is a status symbol - is what some want, and they won’t rest until they get it? With every exception and economia given, this is what some see, and they keep citing the exceptions to the rule as evidence. It’s like how altar girls were introduced in the Latin church. And to what end? Now that the idea of His Beatitude being amicable to a separate bishop and/or exarchate/diocese is sounding favorable - again, unconfirmed except from those preferring that option - the call for being independent of him is being promoted.

 

[bsroufek]

A split with your Church over endogamy? You can change rites, I guess, but don’t split from the Church over it.

 

[malphono]

Anyone else getting the feeling that ‘sui iurus’ - as if it is a status symbol - is what some want, and they won’t rest until they get it? With every exception and economia given, this is what some see, and they keep citing the exceptions to the rule as evidence. It’s like how altar girls were introduced in the Latin church.

Actually … yes, I’ve noticed that too. As I’ve said before, I don’t have a horse in this race, but the Knanaya are a people, not a Church. Correct me if I’m wrong, but as I understand it, there are no unique liturgical traditions (beyond some wedding songs, and certain non-liturgical customs, etc) involved. I agree with the “overlap” in jurisdictions, based on the very real sensibilities of the Knanaya community, (and, again, correct me if I’m wrong, but that seems to work in Kerala), but not with a separate Church. That would seem to me to be nothing more than “politically correct” overkill.

 

[Thomas48]

Dear Friends,

Don’t have me mistaken here, a separate diocese/sui juris/etc would be a blessing but really all that Knanayas in the U.S long for is for the Rescript of 1986’s removal. A Sui Juris is a long shot and that’s just me getting over excited, but the Knanaya have had hopes for a separate diocese like Kottayam in the U.S since we arrived here. Looking at the situation logically, the Knanaya have so many of there own provisions that it doesn’t make much sense to keep us under St.Thomas Syro Malabar Diocese. We have our own Knanaya Parishes, Knanaya Priests, Knanaya Vicar General, and thousands of Knanaya Faithful. Its almost as if the St.Thomas Diocese is divided into two Sui Juris Churches already, is it not? The only problem is Knanayas are unequal in this diocese, it is not possible for our priests to reach any hierarchical status. Rome has made it quite clear the St.Thomas diocese (even though its a diocese for both Knanaya and Syro Malabar Catholics) will never see a Knanaya Bishop or even Knanaya Auxiliary Bishop. This is proven because they were adamant on the decision not to make our Vicar General the Auxiliary Bishop of St.Thomas Diocese when it was requested.

If the Rescript of 86’ is removed us Knanayas are happy, perhaps if later the Major Archbishops see’s fit that we deserve a diocese here than that would be a pleasant surprise but that is all theoretical. So far Mar George Allencherry has proposed to us that he strongly supports our petition and has assured that he will do all in his power to remove the Rescript. On his next visit to Rome he will submit the petition. He has recently told us though, that if it were possible, he favors the erection of a Knanaya Diocese in the U.S.

 

[Vico]

Dear Friends,

Don’t have me mistaken here, a separate diocese/sui juris/etc would be a blessing but really all that Knanayas in the U.S long for is for the Rescript of 1986’s removal. A Sui Juris is a long shot and that’s just me getting over excited, but the Knanaya have had hopes for a separate diocese like Kottayam in the U.S since we arrived here. Looking at the situation logically, the Knanaya have so many of there own provisions that it doesn’t make much sense to keep us under St.Thomas Syro Malabar Diocese. We have our own Knanaya Parishes, Knanaya Priests, Knanaya Vicar General, and thousands of Knanaya Faithful. Its almost as if the St.Thomas Diocese is divided into two Sui Juris Churches already, is it not? The only problem is Knanayas are unequal in this diocese, it is not possible for our priests to reach any hierarchical status. Rome has made it quite clear the St.Thomas diocese (even though its a diocese for both Knanaya and Syro Malabar Catholics) will never see a Knanaya Bishop or even Knanaya Auxiliary Bishop. This is proven because they were adamant on the decision not to make our Vicar General the Auxiliary Bishop of St.Thomas Diocese when it was requested.

If the Rescript of 86’ is removed us Knanayas are happy, perhaps if later the Major Archbishops see’s fit that we deserve a diocese here than that would be a pleasant surprise but that is all theoretical. So far Mar George Allencherry has proposed to us that he strongly supports our petition and has assured that he will do all in his power to remove the Rescript. On his next visit to Rome he will submit the petition. He has recently told us though, that if it were possible, he favors the erection of a Knanaya Diocese in the U.S.

It is a complex situation, especially since there are Knanaya members in the Southists Kottyam Eparchy of two eastern Catholic churches: Syro-Malabar and Syro-Malankara. In the USA there is now both an Syro-Malabar Eparchy (Eparch Jacob Angadiath) and a Syro-Malankara Exarchate (Exarch Thomas Eusebios Naickamparampil).

 

[Thomas48]

It is a complex situation, especially since there are Knanaya members in the Southists Kottyam Eparchy of two eastern Catholic churches: Syro-Malabar and Syro-Malankara. In the USA there is now both an Syro-Malabar Eparchy (Eparch Jacob Angadiath) and a Syro-Malankara Exarchate (Exarch Thomas Eusebios Naickamparampil).

The solution would be a diocese like Kottayam set up for both Syro Malabar and Syro Malankara Catholics. The Malankara Knanayas already attend Syro Malabar Knanaya Holy Qurbana and are members of our parishes. Being under a Knanaya (Syro Malabar) Catholic Diocese would not be something new for them. Like in Kottayam they would receive a Vicar General to administer to there needs but I’m not even sure if a Vicar General would even be petitioned for because their numbers are considerably low in the U.S. For example in Houston I believe we only have 2 Malankara families in total. Under Kottayam Diocese there are in total 15 Malankara Knanaya Parishes with a total of 3300 Patrons, their Vicar General is Rev.Father Thomas Kurisummoottil.

 

[ace_angel]

I dont know why dont ask God

 

[Aramis]

It’s worth noting that, as a semi-autonomous diocese, the Knanaya can maintain endogamy… as a sui iuris church, they would not, because canon law is QUITE specific about the ability to join by marriage - it’s automatic by marriage within a Catholic marriage that the wife may join the sui iuris church of the husband at her decision, and children join the sui iuris church of their father. Further, one can not be removed from a sui iuris church one is enrolled in involuntarily once one is an adult.