Should this be permitted? Your opinions please

[beingchristian]

You think every Pope since Clement VIII has made a mistake? I would think at least one of them would have the wits to disband the Knanaya Community if we were so “Un-Christian”.

SyroMalankara, I think maybe perhaps you are thinking about the Archdiocese of Ernakulam - Angamaly, that is the Latinized Diocese. Kottayam Archdiocese follows the East Syriac Tradition to its up most understanding in the Syro Malabar Church. For Jacobites I cannot say but perhaps like the large majority of St. Thomas Christians at the time, they did not agree with the Latin customs that were being pushed upon them?

Guys, I don’t mean to cause any controversy here, I am just trying to protect my community and its values. I don’t want it to have a tarnished name and put the wrong idea in the heads of those of you who have never met Knanaya Catholics. Do not judge us just because we practice endogamy, we are just like the majority of Catholics world wide.

We Knanayas fight so hard to maintain our customs because they are the base to the identity of the Knanaya Community. No endogamy means no Knanaya Community, don’t you see? You take away endogamy and the Knanaya Community gets eatin up by the larger community and everything is lost. Amongst the St. Thomas Christians the Knanaya Christians are a tiny minority. I think I have brought up this point before but the ratio would be 100 St.Thomas Christians to 1 Knanaya. If we had not practiced endogamy our community would have vanished centuries ago. Endogamy is the only factor that has kept the Knanaya Community alive to the 21st century. Take away endogamy, give it 50-100 years to play its course and there will be no more Knanaya Community.

I hope you all can understand why we have had all the petitions and protests. When the Re-Scirpt was administered in 1986 it was a slap in the face to Knanayas that our customs were not “acceptable” in North America but when our Eastern Catholic brothers bring their customs to North America there is no adjustment to it. Also please understand like I have said plenty of times before, the Knanaya Community is not a hateful one, endogamy means preservation not expulsion. Knanayas may be extremely prideful and zealous but don’t get the wrong idea and think we’re some sort of supremacist group. We do not discriminate against anyone or any group, that is not the definition of Knanaya Endogamy. We are a loving community of Christians like the rest of Universal Church, please don’t get the wrong idea and judge us just because of endogamy.

It looks as if things are brightening up for the community though. The Archbishop of Kottayams website had a newsreel topic titled “Endogomous Ecclesial Units to be Given to the Knanites”, perhaps the protest document has reached the eyes of Pope Francis?

my best friend is knanaya catholic, i even have relatives who are kna. i understand your community very well. i know it is not hateful community but its also not a welcoming community. as a christian you should let anyone come into your community and your community can continue even if they marry outsiders, anything can continue as long you want it to. i just have issue with endogamy not your tradition or customs.

i think the current pope hasnt taken any action yet because maybe he knows that a fight could start and another split could happen within the church. let me ask you thomas, if the current pope told you to stop endogamy would you obey? you were supporting the pope all this time and i very curious to know what your response would be.

 

[John_Lazarus]

In my opinion none of you have the right to say whether endogamy be allowed or disallowed.

Dude, read the title of your very own thread.

Since 1599 the Catholic Church has known of the existence of the Knanaya Community and our traditions. They have allowed the Knanaya Community to follow its endogamous nature in full understanding of the custom. From Pope Clement VIII to Pope Francis the First there has been no change in the tradition and it will continue to be administered under Kottayam Knanaya Catholic Metropolitinate and the Syro Malabar Eparchy of Chicago.** If you think you know more than our Popes and our Bishops on the what the Church accepts than shame on you.**

Yet a bishop is the one who is disagreeing with this practice. No word from Rome yet?

All of you are trying to make the assumption that the Catholic Church has repeatedly made a mistake for the last four hundred years. I do not think that’s the case, the Knanaya Community has been a faithful Christian Community since 345 A.D and we continue to do so by spreading the word of our Lord. Our endogamous community within the Syro Malabar Church is not hurting anyone. If you marry exogamous than you simply get your membership transferred to the nearby Syro Malabar Diocese or the Diocese of your spouse.You may loose membership to the Knanaya Community but that is understood when you marry exogamous. Some people choose the person they love over the community and that is no problem. Also when you marry exogamous you only loose membership to the Community not the Church.

This thread was started because I questioned the authenticity of the Re- Script of 1986 which was administered upon the Knanaya Catholics under the St.Thomas Syro Malabar Diocese of Chicago. The Re-Script from Rome, stated that all Knanaya Parishes in North America must accept all parishioners who marry exogamous bascially stating that we are no longer allowed to assume membership transfer of the exogamous and the spouse of the exogamous must be given membership.

Ah, so there is word from Rome.

That whole decree interludes with Knanaya Traditions and the basic fundamentals of our community, endogamy.** In my opinion **the Knanaya Community is a man-made institution linked between the Syro Malabar Catholic Church and the Syriac Orthodox Church. The churches are divine institutions created by Christ himself. The Catholic Church should not have the right to over see and regulate the membership policies of parishes of a man-made community.

Make up your mind. On the one hand, you say the Church has allowed it. On the other hand, you say the Church should have no say.
I say the Church does have a say in how a parish or diocese runs itself, especially when it makes decisions as to who can and cannot be a member of the community, based on ethnicity.

From Uraha Mar Yoseph in 345 A.D to Archbishop H.G Mar Mathew Moolakattu of the Knanaya Catholic Diocese and Arch Bishop H.G. Kuriakose Mor Severios of the Knanaya Syriac Orthodox Diocese our endogamous nature has been preserved with only few intermarriages within the local community. A community with such long standing history and tradition deserves respect, not to be called Un-Christian because some of you believe endogamy is against Christs teaching. The Church and its Bishops have accepted us and even granted us diocese’ of high standing. I think it is only fair to say that the** Knanaya Catholic Community is unexceptionally and equally a whole part of the Universal Catholic Church.**

Except you say above that your definition of “community” trumps the universality of the Church. No one can join, and if anyone marries outside, they lose their community. It’s like they’ve been tainted, or diluted.
Again, I think it slightly ironic that if the twelve Apostles – Thomas especially – were to return to earth, they could not be in your parish. “Sorry, you might be Catholic, but you’re not ‘one of us’. Why not try that church over there?”

 

[Thomas48]

my best friend is knanaya catholic, i even have relatives who are kna. i understand your community very well. i know it is not hateful community but its also not a welcoming community. as a christian you should let anyone come into your community and your community can continue even if they marry outsiders, anything can continue as long you want it to. i just have issue with endogamy not your tradition or customs.

i think the current pope hasnt taken any action yet because maybe he knows that a fight could start and another split could happen within the church. let me ask you thomas, if the current pope told you to stop endogamy would you obey? you were supporting the pope all this time and i very curious to know what your response would be.

Value and respect the traditions of your forefathers, that’s all I can tell you and if Francis Mar Papa decreed to stop endogamy it would be very tragic but there is nothing more we can do, he is the supreme authority of our church.

 

[John_Lazarus]

You think every Pope since Clement VIII has made a mistake? I would think at least one of them would have the wits to disband the Knanaya Community if we were so “Un-Christian”.

SyroMalankara, I think maybe perhaps you are thinking about the Archdiocese of Ernakulam - Angamaly, that is the Latinized Diocese. Kottayam Archdiocese follows the East Syriac Tradition to its up most understanding in the Syro Malabar Church. For Jacobites I cannot say but perhaps like the large majority of St. Thomas Christians at the time, they did not agree with the Latin customs that were being pushed upon them?

Guys, I don’t mean to cause any controversy here, I am just trying to protect my community and its values. I don’t want it to have a tarnished name and put the wrong idea in the heads of those of you who have never met Knanaya Catholics. Do not judge us just because we practice endogamy, we are just like the majority of Catholics world wide.

We Knanayas fight so hard to maintain our customs because they are the base to the identity of the Knanaya Community. No endogamy means no Knanaya Community, don’t you see? You take away endogamy and the Knanaya Community gets eatin up by the larger community and everything is lost. Amongst the St. Thomas Christians the Knanaya Christians are a tiny minority. I think I have brought up this point before but the ratio would be 100 St.Thomas Christians to 1 Knanaya. If we had not practiced endogamy our community would have vanished centuries ago. Endogamy is the only factor that has kept the Knanaya Community alive to the 21st century. Take away endogamy, give it 50-100 years to play its course and there will be no more Knanaya Community.

Seems to me your community would grow if it accepted outsiders, the way Christianity always has. Seems to me your community may very well be destroyed if enough people “marry out” and you don’t fill up the spaces. But if you let people in, well…assimilation can work both ways.

I hope you all can understand why we have had all the petitions and protests. When the Re-Scirpt was administered in 1986 it was a slap in the face to Knanayas that our customs were not “acceptable” in North America but when our Eastern Catholic brothers bring their customs to North America there is no adjustment to it.

Like which ones that are on the same level as endogamy? I’d like to know.

Also please understand like I have said plenty of times before, the Knanaya Community is not a hateful one, endogamy means preservation not expulsion.

Yet you expel those who marry non-Knanayas.

Knanayas may be extremely prideful and zealous but don’t get the wrong idea and think we’re some sort of supremacist group. We do not discriminate against anyone or any group, that is not the definition of Knanaya Endogamy. We are a loving community of Christians like the rest of Universal Church, please don’t get the wrong idea and judge us just because of endogamy.

Except that outsiders are not welcome.** They can never truly be a part of your community.** And if they marry in, the Knanaya member has to leave. Because now their Knanaya-ness is now tainted or dilute. Because to allow non-Knanayas to stay in the community would destroy it (from within, I suppose).

 

[Thomas48]

Dude, read the title of your very own thread.

Yet a bishop is the one who is disagreeing with this practice. No word from Rome yet?

Ah, so there is word from Rome.

Make up your mind. On the one hand, you say the Church has allowed it. On the other hand, you say the Church should have no say.
I say the Church does have a say in how a parish or diocese runs itself, especially when it makes decisions as to who can and cannot be a member of the community, based on ethnicity.

Except you say above that your definition of “community” trumps the universality of the Church. No one can join, and if anyone marries outside, they lose their community. It’s like they’ve been tainted, or diluted.
Again, I think it slightly ironic that if the twelve Apostles – Thomas especially – were to return to earth, they could not be in your parish. “Sorry, you might be Catholic, but you’re not ‘one of us’. Why not try that church over there?”

Seems to me your community would grow if it accepted outsiders, the way Christianity always has. Seems to me your community may very well be destroyed if enough people “marry out” and you don’t fill up the spaces. But if you let people in, well…assimilation can work both ways.

Like which ones that are on the same level as endogamy? I’d like to know.
Yet you expel those who marry non-Knanayas.

Except that outsiders are not welcome.** They can never truly be a part of your community.** And if they marry in, the Knanaya member has to leave. Because now their Knanaya-ness is now tainted or dilute. Because to allow non-Knanayas to stay in the community would destroy it (from within, I suppose).

Please read the thread, all of these questions and statements have been answered or explained.

 

[Aramis]

There is this concept in many eastern churches: Oikonomia (economy)…

it’s the practice of allowing some minor bad practices because if they were appropriately blocked, it would cause too many to fall away from the faith.

It’s often applied to mitigations of the fasting practices… and in Eastern Orthodoxy to ecclesiastical divorces…

… and its an obvious reason for the acceptance of the toxic practice of endogamy. Endogamy is a minor issue overall, but an issue as it violates the scriptures. It is, however, preferable to tolerate it and keep the Knanaya in the Church than to hit it with an absolute ban and lose the Knanaya to schism.

for any given practice, Economia doesn’t make it a right practice… just a tolerated one.

 

[Brandon_Cal]

There is this concept in many eastern churches: Oikonomia (economy)…

it’s the practice of allowing some minor bad practices because if they were appropriately blocked, it would cause too many to fall away from the faith.

It’s often applied to mitigations of the fasting practices… and in Eastern Orthodoxy to ecclesiastical divorces…

… and its an obvious reason for the acceptance of the toxic practice of endogamy. Endogamy is a minor issue overall, but an issue as it violates the scriptures. It is, however, preferable to tolerate it and keep the Knanaya in the Church than to hit it with an absolute ban and lose the Knanaya to schism.

for any given practice, Economia doesn’t make it a right practice… just a tolerated one.

Wait a minute. I’m neither Catholic nor Orthodox, so pardon my ignorance, but there’s actually a practice of tolerating bad practices in eastern churches for the sake of the greater good of unity? I’ve never heard of this before (and possibly it deserves its own thread so forgive me for any possible derailing).

Is this practice strictly found in Eastern Orthodoxy (and possibly non-Chalcedonian Orthodox churches) or are there equivalents found in Eastern Catholicism?

Also, how does this square with the Catholic principle I’ve been taught that the “ends do not justify the means”? Can we tolerate a practice that is (arguably) immoral for the sake of unity? If so, how do the eastern churches draw a line in the sand in determining when Oikonomia is appropriate and when it would itself be morally duplicitous?

I hope these questions haven’t come off as antagonistic. I’ve honestly never heard of this and I’m more intrigued than anything else.

 

[beingchristian]

Value and respect the traditions of your forefathers, that’s all I can tell you and if Francis Mar Papa decreed to stop endogamy it would be very tragic but there is nothing more we can do, he is the supreme authority of our church.

you can respect your forefathers even if you dont do endogamy. remember you have to respect god first.

in that case why did large sum of kna in america protested? vatican did make it clear that you should allow non-kna spouse to be members of kna church.

its good to know you would stop endogamy if pope commands, but what about others? the ones who are hardcore knanaya? they say they will die for it.

 

[Aramis]

Wait a minute. I’m neither Catholic nor Orthodox, so pardon my ignorance, but there’s actually a practice of tolerating bad practices in eastern churches for the sake of the greater good of unity? I’ve never heard of this before (and possibly it deserves its own thread so forgive me for any possible derailing).

Is this practice strictly found in Eastern Orthodoxy (and possibly non-Chalcedonian Orthodox churches) or are there equivalents found in Eastern Catholicism?

Also, how does this square with the Catholic principle I’ve been taught that the “ends do not justify the means”? Can we tolerate a practice that is (arguably) immoral for the sake of unity? If so, how do the eastern churches draw a line in the sand in determining when Oikonomia is appropriate and when it would itself be morally duplicitous?

I hope these questions haven’t come off as antagonistic. I’ve honestly never heard of this and I’m more intrigued than anything else.

It’s MORE prevalent in the Eastern Orthodox than the Eastern Catholics, due in no small part to the romanization of litigiousness… which leads the ECC’s generally to legislate the minimums rather than the ideals. There is a good article on the term and its origin, and its application to the uncanonical acts of the ROCOR during the 1940’s, at russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/articles/vlarina.html

Economy is a phonetic transcription; it actually means “house building” but has come to encompass any case where a local tradition is a relaxation from the canonical calls for the good of building the church and saving the faithful. But it’s easier explained as toleration for minor errors to avoid major ones.

Since it was in the works of the fathers from before the nestorian and monophysite controversies, the Assyrians and Alexandrians both have the term and practice as well.

In the west, it’s application is in setting a low bar uniformly; in the east, usually setting a high bar, but dispensing people case by case. Roman fasting regulations from 400 years ago were almost as strict as the Byzantine “traditional” fast… but dispensations were common and widespread. It was then simply lowered to conform to the actual practice.

The ends justify the means only when salvation is the end; all decisions of the church are intended to maximize the number of souls entering heaven eventually. And even roman Canon law makes clear that the bishops can reduce the requirements case by case, or even dispense some obligations entirely. *Many permanent deacons are indulted not to say the whole divine office daily; the canons are that clergy shall do so. Economia - for the good of deacons whose day-jobs are in the workforce, time to say the hours may not be practical, and it is for the good of the deacon and his family that the dispensation is given. Most of them are still expected to say morning and evening prayers of the office, because that doesn’t interfere with the day-job. *

The questions are good.

 

[Peter_J]

Wait a minute. I’m neither Catholic nor Orthodox, so pardon my ignorance, but there’s actually a practice of tolerating bad practices in eastern churches for the sake of the greater good of unity? I’ve never heard of this before (and possibly it deserves its own thread so forgive me for any possible derailing).

Is this practice strictly found in Eastern Orthodoxy (and possibly non-Chalcedonian Orthodox churches) or are there equivalents found in Eastern Catholicism?

Also, how does this square with the Catholic principle I’ve been taught that the “ends do not justify the means”? Can we tolerate a practice that is (arguably) immoral for the sake of unity? If so, how do the eastern churches draw a line in the sand in determining when Oikonomia is appropriate and when it would itself be morally duplicitous?

I hope these questions haven’t come off as antagonistic. I’ve honestly never heard of this and I’m more intrigued than anything else.

No, that doesn’t come off as antagonistic; but you’ve gotten the wrong idea about economy.

 

[Peter_J]

It’s MORE prevalent in the Eastern Orthodox than the Eastern Catholics, due in no small part to the romanization of litigiousness… which leads the ECC’s generally to legislate the minimums rather than the ideals. There is a good article on the term and its origin, and its application to the uncanonical acts of the ROCOR during the 1940’s, at russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/articles/vlarina.html

Economy is a phonetic transcription; it actually means “house building” but has come to encompass any case where a local tradition is a relaxation from the canonical calls for the good of building the church and saving the faithful. But it’s easier explained as toleration for minor errors to avoid major ones.

Since it was in the works of the fathers from before the nestorian and monophysite controversies, the Assyrians and Alexandrians both have the term and practice as well.

In the west, it’s application is in setting a low bar uniformly; in the east, usually setting a high bar, but dispensing people case by case. Roman fasting regulations from 400 years ago were almost as strict as the Byzantine “traditional” fast… but dispensations were common and widespread. It was then simply lowered to conform to the actual practice.

That sounds better. Your earlier statement about “acceptance of [a] toxic practice” sounded weird to me.

 

[Peter_J]

Yet a bishop is the one who is disagreeing with this practice.

This may sound like splitting hairs, but I don’t think we can necessarily conclude that the bishop is disagreeing with the practice.

Without attempting a full analysis, let me mention this possibility: the decision may be a matter of practicality. For a diocese in the US (where Syro-Malabarese Catholics, altogether, are a very small minority) it is surely a lot less practical to have some Knanaya (i.e. Knanaya-only) parishes.

 

[Aramis]

That sounds better. Your earlier statement about “acceptance of [a] toxic practice” sounded weird to me.

Ecclesiastical divorce is a tolerated but toxic practice, accepted in the EO as oikonomia.

It’s a statement of the reality.

Divorce is contra-biblical… yet tolerated.

 

[Thomas48]

you can respect your forefathers even if you dont do endogamy. remember you have to respect god first.

in that case why did large sum of kna in america protested? vatican did make it clear that you should allow non-kna spouse to be members of kna church.

its good to know you would stop endogamy if pope commands, but what about others? the ones who are hardcore knanaya? they say they will die for it.

The original Re-Script from Rome states that the Knanaya Parishes and missions must not exclude those Knanaya parishioners who marry exogamous. Archbishop Kuriakose Kunnacherry not only rejected the rescript and refused to implement in the Knanaya Missions, HE also wrote to the Cardinal of Chicago Arch Diocese in 1995 that ** “I would rather close down the mission than compromising on the fundamental principles of the community (by implementing the rescript)”. **

Note that all of this took place before the establishment of the Syro Malabar Diocese in Chicago. When the St.Thomas Syro Malabar Diocese(2001) came around our Kottayam Metropolitans lost all power over their missions and they were transferred to the St. Thomas Diocese. Up till recent years the Knanaya Missions some what tolerated the Re-Script but than Mar Jacob Angadiath of the Syro Malabar Diocese interprets the Re-Script of 1986 as saying **that we may not exclude the Knananite who married exogamous but we must include his Non-Knanaya spouse and children. **That statement from the bishop is what sparked all of these problems and led to the eventual protest march. The Archbishop of Kottayam, Mar Mathew Moolakattu urged us to enter a state of Non-Cooperation with the St.Thomas Syro Malabar Diocese.

The Kottayam Archbishop as the late Mar Thomas Tharayil stated “is seen as the Pope of Knanaya Catholics world wide” exclaims that we should never make a compromise on endogamy. Mar Jacob Angadiath who is looked upon with contempt in the Knanaya Community, states that we should include everyone, which is not for a fact what the original Re-Script defines. In most recent news, Major Archbishop Mar George Alencherry has taken the side of the Knananites and pledged to do all he can to restore true Knanaya endogamous practices in North America and perhaps even establish a separate Vicariate for Knanaya Catholics.

 

[SyroMalankara]

The original Re-Script from Rome states that the Knanaya Parishes and missions must not exclude those Knanaya parishioners who marry exogamous. Archbishop Kuriakose Kunnacherry not only rejected the rescript and refused to implement in the Knanaya Missions, HE also wrote to the Cardinal of Chicago Arch Diocese in 1995 that ** “I would rather close down the mission than compromising on the fundamental principles of the community (by implementing the rescript)”. **

Note that all of this took place before the establishment of the Syro Malabar Diocese in Chicago. When the St.Thomas Syro Malabar Diocese(2001) came around our Kottayam Metropolitans lost all power over their missions and they were transferred to the St. Thomas Diocese. Up till recent years the Knanaya Missions some what tolerated the Re-Script but than Mar Jacob Angadiath of the Syro Malabar Diocese interprets the Re-Script of 1986 as saying **that we may not exclude the Knananite who married exogamous but we must include his Non-Knanaya spouse and children. **That statement from the bishop is what sparked all of these problems and led to the eventual protest march. The Archbishop of Kottayam, Mar Mathew Moolakattu urged us to enter a state of Non-Cooperation with the St.Thomas Syro Malabar Diocese.

The Kottayam Archbishop as the late Mar Thomas Tharayil stated “is seen as the Pope of Knanaya Catholics world wide” exclaims that we should never make a compromise on endogamy. Mar Jacob Angadiath who is looked upon with contempt in the Knanaya Community, states that we should include everyone, which is not for a fact what the original Re-Script defines. In most recent news, Major Archbishop Mar George Alencherry has taken the side of the Knananites and pledged to do all he can to restore true Knanaya endogamous practices in North America and perhaps even establish a separate Vicariate for Knanaya Catholics.

Where did Mar Thomas Tharayil say that, in what context, to whom? Most cultures practice some type of Endogamy, but not to the restrictions you state that you want. Most Syriac Christians marry other Syrian Christians, etc., but none of these say once you marry outside you are out and your spouse can never join.

 

[Thomas48]

Where did Mar Thomas Tharayil say that, in what context, to whom? Most cultures practice some type of Endogamy, but not to the restrictions you state that you want. Most Syriac Christians marry other Syrian Christians, etc., but none of these say once you marry outside you are out and your spouse can never join.

I think i may have worded that weirdly but yes Mar Thomas Tharayil called himself the “Pope of Knanaya Catholics World Wide”, in a speech at Kottayam Archdiocese but of course this was just a petty statement to show the unity of Knanaya Catholics.

When the issues of the Re-Script of 1986 came around Mar Kuriakose Kunnacherry and Mar Mathew Moolakttu proclaimed numerous times that “we must never make a comprise on endogamy”. Mar Mathew Moolakattu has said the phrase “Endogamy is the birthright of Knananites” in plenty of speeches and circulars. And yes SyroMalankara, that is true, most Christian Communities do practice a form of endogamy but not to the point where it is installed in the canons of a diocese, that once again falls back on what makes Knanayas different.

 

[beingchristian]

The original Re-Script from Rome states that the Knanaya Parishes and missions must not exclude those Knanaya parishioners who marry exogamous. Archbishop Kuriakose Kunnacherry not only rejected the rescript and refused to implement in the Knanaya Missions, HE also wrote to the Cardinal of Chicago Arch Diocese in 1995 that ** “I would rather close down the mission than compromising on the fundamental principles of the community (by implementing the rescript)”. **

Note that all of this took place before the establishment of the Syro Malabar Diocese in Chicago. When the St.Thomas Syro Malabar Diocese(2001) came around our Kottayam Metropolitans lost all power over their missions and they were transferred to the St. Thomas Diocese. Up till recent years the Knanaya Missions some what tolerated the Re-Script but than Mar Jacob Angadiath of the Syro Malabar Diocese interprets the Re-Script of 1986 as saying **that we may not exclude the Knananite who married exogamous but we must include his Non-Knanaya spouse and children. **That statement from the bishop is what sparked all of these problems and led to the eventual protest march. The Archbishop of Kottayam, Mar Mathew Moolakattu urged us to enter a state of Non-Cooperation with the St.Thomas Syro Malabar Diocese.

The Kottayam Archbishop as the late Mar Thomas Tharayil stated “is seen as the Pope of Knanaya Catholics world wide” exclaims that we should never make a compromise on endogamy. Mar Jacob Angadiath who is looked upon with contempt in the Knanaya Community, states that we should include everyone, which is not for a fact what the original Re-Script defines. In most recent news, Major Archbishop Mar George Alencherry has taken the side of the Knananites and pledged to do all he can to restore true Knanaya endogamous practices in North America and perhaps even establish a separate Vicariate for Knanaya Catholics.

I’m so sad to hear a bishop, who is a knanaya and ‘‘christian’’(the most important identity) instructed other kna’s to stop cooperating with st thomas syro malabar catholics because he doesn’t like spreading his tradition or culture with other christians brother and sisters because endogamy is more important to him than his own religion. Bishop without any love and a bishop who doesn’t share, that is what is see. Christians should share their traditions or culture to their other christian brothers and sisters because from sharing and giving there is love. Not by being stuborn. Knanaya achans and bishops could be doing very great things like converting qnd etc but they fail to bring unity within their own church as they prefer to bring unity between knanaya community. Not able to follow traditions because your not born as a kna, is so unchristian! And imagine how many people who married non-kna feel? When they can’t do what they did from childhood and their own children can’t do it and they feel left out. That is enoought to say its segregating and dividing and it defo shows kna people are more interested in their culture than god’s teaching.

 

[beingchristian]

Oh and I don’t care which christian said what. Even if its the pope of kna or pope of rome. They are all christians first and they should do things matching with new testament. Nothing can be right if its not right biblically! I’m fed up of people saying he said this or that. Do they ever think what the bible says? Or if what that person says is matching with the bible? …

This is exactly why it says in bible, in future false teachers willl come and we should not be decieved. (Not the exact quote btw)

 

[Thomas48]

Kottayam Archdiocese does its duty as well as any other Catholic Diocese,The Church teaches us to spread the word of Christ not Knanayism. The Catholic Church nor the scripture tell us to spread the customs of small community to others. The bible teaches us to evangelize and radiate the gospel and the Knanaya Community does exactly that, the only difference being people who are brought into Catholicism and Christianity by Knananites are sent to the Syro Malabar Church. Therefore it cannot be said that Knananites do not do our duty as Christians.

Mar Mathew Moolakattu is the head of his flock the Endogamous Knanaya Catholics and it is his duty to protect his flock which he was entrusted with by the pope. Being and endogamous Knananite himself it only makes sense that he would foster and make safe the customs of his people. Even though we travel to different countries we are always Knanayas and the head of our church like the patriarchs of other churches is Metropolitan Mar Mathew Moolakattu. The Metropolitan and all of his flock will do all they can to preserve the identity of this centuries old community. It is not just Knanaya Catholics, but the Syro Malabar Methrans have done much in the past and present to help us keep alive our small community. It was actually with the will and approval of three Syro Malabar Bishops and the Knanaya Bishop Mar Mathai Makil that Kottayam Diocese ever was erected and today it is only with the help and compassion of Mar George Alencherry that our petition is being delivered to the Vatican.

So before you call Knanaya Bishops and priests unloving you might want to check out who has always had our back when situations grow tough, none other than the Syro Malabar Church who has helped us grow and further our small community. The only exclusion to this being Mar Jacob Angadiath but he is only following his orders from the Vatican. In the past Knanayas and Syro Malabar Christians were very spiteful of each other, there can be no denying that, but today their is nothing but love and brotherhood in our Sui Juris Church.

 

[beingchristian]

Kottayam Archdiocese does its duty as well as any other Catholic Diocese,The Church teaches us to spread the word of Christ not Knanayism. The Catholic Church nor the scripture tell us to spread the customs of small community to others. The bible teaches us to evangelize and radiate the gospel and the Knanaya Community does exactly that, the only difference being people who are brought into Catholicism and Christianity by Knananites are sent to the Syro Malabar Church. Therefore it cannot be said that Knananites do not do our duty as Christians.

Mar Mathew Moolakattu is the head of his flock the Endogamous Knanaya Catholics and it is his duty to protect his flock which he was entrusted with by the pope. Being and endogamous Knananite himself it only makes sense that he would foster and make safe the customs of his people. Even though we travel to different countries we are always Knanayas and the head of our church like the patriarchs of other churches is Metropolitan Mar Mathew Moolakattu. The Metropolitan and all of his flock will do all they can to preserve the identity of this centuries old community. It is not just Knanaya Catholics, but the Syro Malabar Methrans have done much in the past and present to help us keep alive our small community. It was actually with the will and approval of three Syro Malabar Bishops and the Knanaya Bishop Mar Mathai Makil that Kottayam Diocese ever was erected and today it is only with the help and compassion of Mar George Alencherry that our petition is being delivered to the Vatican.

So before you call Knanaya Bishops and priests unloving you might want to check out who has always had our back when situations grow tough, none other than the Syro Malabar Church who has helped us grow and further our small community. The only exclusion to this being Mar Jacob Angadiath but he is only following his orders from the Vatican. In the past Knanayas and Syro Malabar Christians were very spiteful of each other, there can be no denying that, but today their is nothing but love and brotherhood in our Sui Juris Church.

i do know what the bible teaches and it does talk about ‘‘sharing’’. something kna’s dont do with their own brother and sisters just because their not from the same ethnic background. endogamy should have stopped but you still want carry it on and dont let your relatives carryon because their not same blood. i think its clear your segregating.

if you read what i have said in my previouse post , i did say if christians do things according to the bible then only its right. it doesnt matter who else said it. i dont really care if syro malabar supports your group or not. that is not the point. does the bible? nop!