Should this be permitted? Your opinions please

[Thomas48]

Well it is commonly known that intermarriage in a singular gene pool isn’t the best because it interesting the probability of having recessive deficiencies. And I do feel citing Middle Eastern Christians as endogamous as an example is a bit unfair; while Middle Eastern Christians do tend to marry other Christians (inter-Catholic/Orthodox is big, probably a response to Islam) of their locale it isn’t explicit custom nor would a Middle Eastern person be effectively disowned for doing contrary.

That being said, reflecting more upon the matter of Knanaya endogamy, it doesn’t seem to be offensive as I initially perceived it. So long as a Knanaya parish/priest were never to turn someone away in a manner that would dispose that person to losing orthodox faith or some psyche-related malignancy I don’t see endogamy as a problematic custom within the confines of episcopally approved perimeters. However, I should reiterate that I see it as somewhat divisive within the Syro-Malabar Church for the reason you stated: if it served for the practical purpose of saying separate from pagans (just as the Middle Eastern Christians marry other Middle Eastern Christians in the Middle East) the elusiveness of Knayaya only marrying Knayaya becomes problematic outside a context were it is unnecessary.

I am happy that you know longer see Knanaya Endogamy in a offensive way. We may practice this custom but we are just as Christian as everyone else. Kottayam Archdiocese has done so much for Kerala Society, including things like setting up hospitals, schools, day cares, homes for the elderly, and other effective resources. Also being endogamists it does not mean we forgot our Christian Duty, Kottayam Archdiocese evangelizes and does missionary work just as much or some say even more than other Syro Malabar Diocese.

As historical reference states, when the Knanayas reached Kerala they practiced endogamy because they did not want there sons and daughters going to Hindus, and because the custom had been practiced within the community earlier in the Middle East. Why they also did not accept the St. Thomas Christians? I honestly do not know, perhaps it was because the St. Thomas Christians had customs that were quite different than there own and for this reason the Knanayas thought to preserve there separate identity.

 

[rohan_mathew]

I am happy that you know longer see Knanaya Endogamy in a offensive way. We may practice this custom but we are just as Christian as everyone else. Kottayam Archdiocese has done so much for Kerala Society, including things like setting up hospitals, schools, day cares, homes for the elderly, and other effective resources. Also being endogamists it does not mean we forgot our Christian Duty, Kottayam Archdiocese evangelizes and does missionary work just as much or some say even more than other Syro Malabar Diocese.

As historical reference states, when the Knanayas reached Kerala they practiced endogamy because they did not want there sons and daughters going to Hindus, and because the custom had been practiced within the community earlier in the Middle East. Why they also did not accept the St. Thomas Christians? I honestly do not know, perhaps it was because the St. Thomas Christians had customs that were quite different than there own and for this reason the Knanayas thought to preserve there separate identity.

Dear Thomas48,
When I read your church’s history, I found that
in 1910, Jacobite patriarch of Antioch, Ignatius Abdulla established the Kottayam diocese for knanites within his church.
Then, in 1911, Roman Pope, Pius X established the kottayam diocese for knanites within catholic church.
So my question is, was it a competition?
My question is whether Rome established knanaya diocese because jacobites established one?

 

[Thomas48]

Dear Thomas48,
When I read your church’s history, I found that
in 1910, Jacobite patriarch of Antioch, Ignatius Abdulla established the Kottayam diocese for knanites within his church.
Then, in 1911, Roman Pope, Pius X established the kottayam diocese for knanites within catholic church.
So my question is, was it a competition?
My question is whether Rome established knanaya diocese because jacobites established one?

A little mistake in what you said, Patriarch Ignatius Abdulla established a Knanaya Diocese in Chingavanam for Knanaya Jacobites and Pope St. Pius X created Kottayam for Knanaya Catholics.

It was no competition, the Knanaya Catholic Bishop at the time, Mar Mathai Makil, saw the Knanaya Jacobites be granted there own diocese so he though perhaps if he petitioned the Pope. Knanaya Catholics may be granted their own diocese as well. In the past the Syro Malabar Catholics and Knanaya Catholics were always in constant fights, and sharing a diocese made it even worse (at the time they shared Changanaserry Diocese), so this also led Mar Mathai to believe that a diocese for his people would be the answer. So he and two other Syro Malabar bishops boarded a ship to Rome to petition for a diocese for the Knanaya Catholic people. Pope St. Pius seeing that it would end the infighting and preserve the identity of the Knanaya Community, erected Kottayam Diocese exclusively for the Knanaya Catholic people.

But as you said, people do also speculate that Pope St. Pius X did not want to lose the Knanaya Catholic people to the Syriac Orthodox Church and so that could be a reason why Kottayam was granted so quickly to Knanaya Catholics.

 

[system]

A little mistake in what you said, Patriarch Ignatius Abdulla established a Knanaya Diocese in Chingavanam for Knanaya Jacobites and Pope St. Pius X created Kottayam for Knanaya Catholics.

It was no competition, the Knanaya Catholic Bishop at the time, Mar Mathai Makil, saw the Knanaya Jacobites be granted there own diocese so he though perhaps if he petitioned the Pope. Knanaya Catholics may be granted their own diocese as well. In the past the Syro Malabar Catholics and Knanaya Catholics were always in constant fights, and sharing a diocese made it even worse (at the time they shared Changanaserry Diocese), so this also led Mar Mathai to believe that a diocese for his people would be the answer. So he and two other Syro Malabar bishops boarded a ship to Rome to petition for a diocese for the Knanaya Catholic people. Pope St. Pius seeing that it would end the infighting and preserve the identity of the Knanaya Community, erected Kottayam Diocese exclusively for the Knanaya Catholic people.

But as you said, people do also speculate that Pope St. Pius X did not want to lose the Knanaya Catholic people to the Syriac Orthodox Church and so that could be a reason why Kottayam was granted so quickly to Knanaya Catholics.

well, if we start living in the past, then we cant live for the future can we?. maybe fights happened then, because syro-malabar christians saw knanaya christians as inferior to them, thus leading knanaya’s to practice endogamy.
i dont think knanaya would even pray with syro-malabar christians, if culture and customs were the big deal due to differences.
current time is more educated and not like before, and syro-malabar christians accept anyone ; even if its is knanaya catholic/Jacobite. i dont see knanaya christians to be accepting any other christian and it doesnt seem to be loving anyone else except within their own.
christians should love each other and bring people into their communities and make it more growing. continuing with endogamy, which is not a christian thing to do is like advising a fellow christian brother, that they are not welcome.
is this what jesus wants from knanaya catholics? is this loving and sharing?

 

[Thomas48]

well, if we start living in the past, then we cant live for the future can we?. maybe fights happened then, because syro-malabar christians saw knanaya christians as inferior to them, thus leading knanaya’s to practice endogamy.
i dont think knanaya would even pray with syro-malabar christians, if culture and customs were the big deal due to differences.
current time is more educated and not like before, and syro-malabar christians accept anyone ; even if its is knanaya catholic/Jacobite. i dont see knanaya christians to be accepting any other christian and it doesnt seem to be loving anyone else except within their own.
christians should love each other and bring people into their communities and make it more growing. continuing with endogamy, which is not a christian thing to do is like advising a fellow christian brother, that they are not welcome.
is this what jesus wants from knanaya catholics? is this loving and sharing?

All of these questions or points have already been answered or been talked about in the last 32 pages, do feel free to look through there, theirs not much of a point in repeating what has already been asked.

 

[LilyM]

All of these questions or points have already been answered or been talked about in the last 32 pages, do feel free to look through there, theirs not much of a point in repeating what has already been asked.

Well, if they’re being repeated then we may need to look at how satisfactory the explanations and answers actually are. I really think people understand what you are saying, certainly I do, I just strongly disagree with it.

 

[Thomas48]

Well, if they’re being repeated then we may need to look at how satisfactory the explanations and answers actually are. I really think people understand what you are saying, certainly I do, I just strongly disagree with it.

I have said all that I can say, for those who are interested I will continue to post updates on this thread about the situation in North America as things progress.

 

[Thomas48]

Update

With the united efforts of Major Archbishop Mar George Alencherry, the Knanaya Metropolitan Mar Mathew Moolakattu and KCCNA, the petition to remove the Re-Script of 1986 has been successfully filed and has been received in Rome, specifically the Congregation for the Oriental Churches. The final decision that will affect the endogamic nature of the Knanaya Catholic Parishes in North America now rests on Francis Mar Papa.