Should we ask them to use separate bedrooms?

[Kelfa28]

They are yanking you around by a chain. You are way more forgiving than I would be. Based on what went down on the previous trip, I would not include the couple in any arrangements. I would say something like, “based on the confusion and misunderstanding that happened at the rental house for the last holiday, we think it best for you and your girlfriend to make your own arrangements.”

I’ve been reading this thread and based on all of the confusion…this is the best response.

I think I saw that they refused to pay for the last arrangement. That would be the last straw for me and I wouldn’t even bother to try and pay for them. They can make it work for themselves if they want to go.

If they are adults then you really can’t do much except not pay for there way.

If there are young children that are going…I wouldn’t invite this couple. I would also explain exactly why.

 

[HouseArrest]

That’s also a pretty good idea. If I were the OP that’s definitely one I would consider.

But he is concerned about maintaining a good relationship with his son. I don’t think that that line would hurt anything, but I don’t know his son and how he would take it. But its definitely one to consider.

I am concerned about maintaining a good relationship with my youngest son. He’s five. Sometimes he gets in this mood in which he sees what he can get me to do. He asks me to pour him a bowl of cereal. Then he tells me it’s not enough. Then there is not enough milk. Then he doesn’t like the spoon I got out for him. I’'m certainly not going to dance around indefinitely and I am not going to waste a lot of food. Nothing ends this game except for me leaving the kitchen.

OP’s son is doing the same thing except he’s in his late twenties. The OP needs to leave the kitchen. It’s the only way to maintain a good relationship.

 

[JackyB]

They are yanking you around by a chain. You are way more forgiving than I would be. Based on what went down on the previous trip, I would not include the couple in any arrangements. I would say something like, “based on the confusion and misunderstanding that happened at the rental house for the last holiday, we think it best for you and your girlfriend to make your own arrangements.”

Best response so far and one I would use.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I am concerned about maintaining a good relationship with my youngest son. He’s five. Sometimes he gets in this mood in which he sees what he can get me to do. He asks me to pour him a bowl of cereal. Then he tells me it’s not enough. Then there is not enough milk. Then he doesn’t like the spoon I got out for him. I’'m certainly not going to dance around indefinitely and I am not going to waste a lot of food. Nothing ends this game except for me leaving the kitchen.

OP’s son is doing the same thing except he’s in his late twenties. The OP needs to leave the kitchen. It’s the only way to maintain a good relationship.

This. Exactly this. Time to walk out of the kitchen. Pour the bowl of cereal into the sink and leave the kitchen.

 

[JackieMom]

If they are paying for their accommodations, you can’t dictate what they do with the space they rent. If they are your guests, staying on your dime - of course you are well within your rights to treat them as a dating couple and not a married one.

Did you raise your son a Catholic, or is faith and values something you’ve developed since he left the home? If you raised him in the faith, he should not be surprised that you draw the line at unmarried couples sleeping together under your roof. He should explain your views to his girlfriend too.

 

[cmscms]

With all due respect (and I know you probably don’t want to hear this), it would have been better to tell them in advance ‘You are invited on condition you have separate rooms’. Now I realize it is too late to do anything about that but I would tell them ASAP they can NOT share a room. If they decide to not come, that is their right, A lot of people rejected Jesus because they did not like His teachings and we can’t expect people to love us more than Jesus.

If your son’s GF throws a fit because your son did not tell her say out loud ‘Son has known about this in advance, it is not our fault he can not pass on a message’

As for the GF. I use to know a woman who was like that. Her boyfriend came from a Catholic family with 10 kids and she use to complain to me that the married siblings could share a room but not them because they were only living together. Well… my opinioin… that was just reflective of this girl’s attitude that she ruled the world. Any time she was invited to a supper party, she had no problem marching into the kitchen and telling the host how to make the meal.

It sounds like GF is just one of those people who always needs her agenda. I would NOT take her garbage. If feeling welcome meant that much to her, she would marry your son.

CMS

 

[Petergee]

Petergee, I don’t think you answered this question: Will there be children staying there also?

Regarding the money thing, rather than save them from embarrassment by offering to “loan” them the money, it seems that you are giving them control over your money and allowing them to show you the disrespect of disregarding their obligations to pay it back. If you want to pay for their lodging, then whether or not they get embarrassed is their problem not yours. If they want to accept your help, they can be grownups about it and not pretend that they aren’t accepting help. Their embarrassment is not your problem. And it shouldn’t have to be a big problem anyway - adults should be able to move past that detail. But if you don’t really want to be paying for them, then stop offering them loans. I am one who would give them a second chance, and I would probably also remind them that they owe you money from the first stay. But after that, I wouldn’t have any moral qualms not offering them a place to stay in the future. I probably wouldn’t TRY to get into the conversation about why, but if pressed I would be honest and tell my kid that they are taking advantage of me by borrowing money that they are not paying back, and I don’t want to keep playing that game.
actually we are happy to pay for our son to come on these trips for important family occasions. The loan was for the extra expense of paying for him and his girlfriend to have a separate hotel room.

They are adults, and they can either find a way to get to these family gatherings and pay for their own lodging, or they can maturely decline. It is not the end of the world for some members of a family not to be able to attend events due to the travel required.

Is this something that is going to be happening every year? Are you always going to feel obligated to provide lodging for other family members?

No these are one-off occasions, though teher will probably be others in fure such as interstate /overseas weddings/funerals etc.

 

[Petergee]

Petergee, I don’t think you answered this question: Will there be children staying there also?

As I said children and teenagers will very likely be visiting but probably not staying overnight.

Regarding the money thing, rather than save them from embarrassment by offering to “loan” them the money, it seems that you are giving them control over your money and allowing them to show you the disrespect of disregarding their obligations to pay it back. If you want to pay for their lodging, then whether or not they get embarrassed is their problem not yours. If they want to accept your help, they can be grownups about it and not pretend that they aren’t accepting help. Their embarrassment is not your problem. And it shouldn’t have to be a big problem anyway - adults should be able to move past that detail. But if you don’t really want to be paying for them, then stop offering them loans. I am one who would give them a second chance, and I would probably also remind them that they owe you money from the first stay. But after that, I wouldn’t have any moral qualms not offering them a place to stay in the future. I probably wouldn’t TRY to get into the conversation about why, but if pressed I would be honest and tell my kid that they are taking advantage of me by borrowing money that they are not paying back, and I don’t want to keep playing that game.

actually we are happy to pay for our son to come on these trips for important family occasions. The loan was for the extra expense of paying for him and his girlfriend to have a separate hotel room.

They are adults, and they can either find a way to get to these family gatherings and pay for their own lodging, or they can maturely decline. It is not the end of the world for some members of a family not to be able to attend events due to the travel required.

Is this something that is going to be happening every year? Are you always going to feel obligated to provide lodging for other family members?

No these are one-off occasions, though there will probably be others in future such as interstate /overseas weddings/funerals etc.

 

[Petergee]

If they are paying for their accommodations, you can’t dictate what they do with the space they rent. If they are your guests, staying on your dime - of course you are well within your rights to treat them as a dating couple and not a married one.

Did you raise your son a Catholic, or is faith and values something you’ve developed since he left the home? If you raised him in the faith, he should not be surprised that you draw the line at unmarried couples sleeping together under your roof. He should explain your views to his girlfriend too.

Yes we raised him as a Catholic. as I said we have always had the same rule for all of our children and anyone else staying in our house (and of course for ourselves).

 

[JackieMom]

Yes we raised him as a Catholic. as I said we have always had the same rule for all of our children and anyone else staying in our house (and of course for ourselves).

Then this should not come as a surprise to him at all. If you were an Orthodox Jewish family who kept kosher, and your adult son abandoned his faith - would you allow him to come eat bacon cheeseburgers off your dishes in your home? Would he be so rude and inconsiderate as to try? It’s not that hard for a man to say, “My folks are Catholics with traditional values. We’ll have to stay in separate rooms since we’re not married, or pay for a hotel room.”

 

[BlueEyedLady]

There comes a point in everyone’s life where they break from what their parents taught them and always wanted for them. But when that happens they have to expect that their parents won’t foot the bill for this break. When I moved to the city I didn’t expect my mom to pay for my apartment. When I dyed my hair blue she didn’t pay for the dye.

I guess I stand by the idea that if the parents are paying then they can put that stipulation in place. If the son will be financially responsible they really can’t.

Why not run that by the son? Just say “Ok sport, you’re a grown man now. We’re happy to help you with the travel expenses, but if we’re paying for it you will not be sharing a room. If you are going to handle it on your own then there is nothing I can do to stop you. But before we leave you two need to talk it over, make your decision, let me know, and stand by it.”

 

[daisybee]

They are yanking you around by a chain. You are way more forgiving than I would be. Based on what went down on the previous trip, I would not include the couple in any arrangements. I would say something like, “based on the confusion and misunderstanding that happened at the rental house for the last holiday, we think it best for you and your girlfriend to make your own arrangements.”

Great idea…that would eliminate all the question marks surrounding payment too. An approach like this would also eliminate any future question about what the family treats as acceptable or not.

That is, if son and cohabitating GF stay in the same lodgings as all other family members, and the OP were to pay for their lodgings, some members of the family may liberally interpret the action as a certain amount of tolerance toward the cohabitation. If the family members are young people, it may have the unintended effect of undermining their formation. They may note it is a certain amount of tolerance toward cohabitation.

 

[Petergee]

There comes a point in everyone’s life where they break from what their parents taught them and always wanted for them. But when that happens they have to expect that their parents won’t foot the bill for this break. When I moved to the city I didn’t expect my mom to pay for my apartment. When I dyed my hair blue she didn’t pay for the dye.

I guess I stand by the idea that if the parents are paying then they can put that stipulation in place. If the son will be financially responsible they really can’t.

Why not run that by the son? Just say “Ok sport, you’re a grown man now. We’re happy to help you with the travel expenses, but if we’re paying for it you will not be sharing a room. If you are going to handle it on your own then there is nothing I can do to stop you. But before we leave you two need to talk it over, make your decision, let me know, and stand by it.”

I don’t think “who’s paying” is the important thing here. You seem to be arguing from the position that the choice to do good and the choice to do evil should both be equally respected as merely arbitrary choices. Fornication is evil and can never be respected. We respect that they are adults and primarily responsible for their own salvation (although we are all to a greater or lesser extent responsile for each others’ salvation) and we wouldn’t dream of going round to their house and ordering them to stop fornicating. So to that extent we tolerate their evil action. But what can not and should be tolerated is to deliberately flaunt their actions under our noses, regardless of who is paying.

That’s the way I see it anyway and the way I believe the Chruch seees it, after receiving the very helpful advice from all here and from my parish priest.

 

[lerapt78]

I don’t think “who’s paying” is the important thing here. You seem to be arguing from the position that the choice to do good and the choice to do evil should both be equally respected as merely arbitrary choices. Fornication is evil and can never be respected. We respect that they are adults and primarily responsible for their own salvation (although we are all to a greater or lesser extent responsile for each others’ salvation) and we wouldn’t dream of going round to their house and ordering them to stop fornicating. So to that extent we tolerate their evil action. But what can not and should be tolerated is to deliberately flaunt their actions under our noses, regardless of who is paying.

That’s the way I see it anyway and the way I believe the Chruch seees it, after receiving the very helpful advice from all here and from my parish priest.

Very well said, Petergee. The money is a secondary issue here.

If you want to adhere to the principles against which your son and his girlfriend are rebelling, it doesn’t seem like there’s much else you can do except rescind the invitation.

I’m sure you don’t want to do that. Would you mind telling us: is your son the type who would hold that against you, or would he understand that the invitation is not taken back out of mere pettiness?

 

[Petergee]

Very well said, Petergee. The money is a secondary issue here.

If you want to adhere to the principles against which your son and his girlfriend are rebelling, it doesn’t seem like there’s much else you can do except rescind the invitation.

I’m sure you don’t want to do that. Would you mind telling us: is your son the type who would hold that against you, or would he understand that the invitation is not taken back out of mere pettiness?

He is basically a very generous soul and would understand, but his GF is very self-centred, demanding and manipulative and exploits his generous nature.

We have now had “the talk” with him. (His GF was meant to be there too but pulled out at the last minute with a mysterious headache.)

He claims she would suffer a panic attack or similar if she had to sleep in a room by herself or with “someone she didn’t trust as much as him” i.e. anyone else.

We told him they are welcome to stay with us but the usual rules of c

 

[HouseArrest]

He is basically a very generous soul and would understand, but his GF is very self-centred, demanding and manipulative and exploits his generous nature.

We have now had “the talk” with him. (His GF was meant to be there too but pulled out at the last minute with a mysterious headache.)

He claims she would suffer a panic attack or similar if she had to sleep in a room by herself or with “someone she didn’t trust as much as him” i.e. anyone else.

We told him they are welcome to stay with us but the usual rules of c

It sounds like you are walking right into the last situation you had with your son and his girlfriend. It sounds like he is laying the groundwork. He is telling you what is going to happen. You are saying they are welcome to stay following the usual rules, and he is telling you there is no way they are following the usual rules. They “can’t”. Rather, she “can’t”, and he isn’t going to do anything as a go between.

In a previous post you stated “they” threw a fit, “they” felt you were unwelcoming to her. Now that he had a talk with you, alone, it was “her”?

It doesn’t seem like you have solved anything.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

He claims she would suffer a panic attack or similar if she had to sleep in a room by herself or with “someone she didn’t trust as much as him” i.e. anyone else.

Wow. That’s pretty extreme for an adult. Does he realize how dysfunctional she sounds? What a mess your son is in.

It sounds like you are walking right into the last situation you had with your son and his girlfriend. It sounds like he is laying the groundwork. He is telling you what is going to happen. You are saying they are welcome to stay following the usual rules, and he is telling you there is no way they are following the usual rules. They “can’t”. Rather, she “can’t”, and he isn’t going to do anything as a go between.

In a previous post you stated “they” threw a fit, “they” felt you were unwelcoming to her. Now that he had a talk with you, alone, it was “her”?

It doesn’t seem like you have solved anything.

Unfortunately, this sounds like it might be true. I would suggest you go prepared with whatever you are going to do/say in the event of a repeat of last time.

It also would be good to prepare the other conversation with your son, explaining that since you can’t change your convictions, and they can’t be in separate rooms, then it is clear that the housing needs of both parties are incompatible. So from now on, it will be better not to make travel plans that involve shared housing.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

We wouldn’t be asking them to change their relationship, much less demanding it. Even if they were married, it’s not COMPULSORY for a couple to spend every night sleeping in the same bed. My wife and I have stayed in places where we had to sleep separately and we didn’t throw a tantrum about it.

And it’s not about suiting our sensibilities, it’s about not letting them force us to do something which WE believe would be immoral for US to do.

I should add that this is not some new rule which we have imposed. For many years and with all of our children and other people staying with us, we have never put two unmarried people of opposite sexes in the same bedroom. This is more about our son’s girlfriend trying to emotionally blackmail us to act contrary to our beliefs.

So do you think it would be OK if we let them do the same thing in our house, as long as they gave us some money to cover a proportion of our mortgage payments, rates and utility bills etc. ? Sounds a lot like prostitution to me.

We rented the house, what difference does it make whether we’ve rented it for a week or for a year or for 20 years?

My humble opinion is to change your plans, go away with your wife and avoid this head ache.

My Dad died when i was 28. He was Old School Sicilian, and there were certain things that no way I would expect him to allow, out of respect for him.

You invited them as a courtesy, you didn’t need to invite them, Out of respect for you they should sleep in differnt rooms.

If they cannot do that, then they can stay home. I’ve stayed over my in-laws home various times because of bad weather. DH and I slept in separate beds and rooms to accomodate the children. We did not complain.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

He is basically a very generous soul and would understand, but his GF is very self-centred, demanding and manipulative and exploits his generous nature.

We have now had “the talk” with him. (His GF was meant to be there too but pulled out at the last minute with a mysterious headache.)

He claims she would suffer a panic attack or similar if she had to sleep in a room by herself or with “someone she didn’t trust as much as him” i.e. anyone else.

We told him they are welcome to stay with us but the usual rules of c

That’s not generosity, that’s co-dependence. What kind of man accepts that kind of treatment? One who doesn’t believe he deserves anything better. Maybe she’s abusing him.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Frankly I think that this whole situation is a mess. This could be the case of a manipulative or even abusive girlfriend. Or this could be a situation where the girlfriend is not manipulative, but the parents assume she is because they don’t believe that their child would act this way. Or it may even be that the son is knowingly letting his girlfriend take the blame for the things he wants and does either out of selfishness or immaturity. Only the couple knows what’s really going on here. No matter what the exact situation though it seems like it would be better for everyone to make their own travel arrangements. Yes, he said he understood the rules, but apparently that’s what he said last time too. Yes, its hard for everyone when they realize that a difference in values is going to create some distance between parents and adult children, but I really do think that it happens to most families at some point. Its normal. It doesn’t make it easy though.