Should we be able to become CLOSE friends with the non Christ-centered?

[elts1956]

I’m referring to the recent Mother Teresa revelation, which indicated she told her confessor in Rome that she felt no sense of God in her life. Haven’t you heard of this? This is my question: how could she have seen ‘Jesus’ in poor people when she had no sense of Jesus in her own spirituality? It seems disjointed. Don’t get me wrong. I admire her greatly and have read most of her books. But…I wonder what motivated her if she had no sense of God.

The only statement I can come up with is that she may not have had an “emotional” sense of God. That Joy and Fire that some of the other Saints have had. As I understand it, not all Saints had this emotional presence of God. And perhaps this is good, because as we know, depending on only emotions to steer us can cause us much trouble I have heard many times “Love is a choice and for me there is no greater evidence of love than one’s actions”.

 

[InLight247]

Hi InLight,

You will be as surprised as I was to stumble on this, but all of a sudden, tonight I had a desire to read St. Catherine of Genoa’s Treatise on Purgatory which I have never seen before. And this was the paragraph that jumped out at me at the beginning of her treatise. It seems the Lord would have me share it here. I know how much you will appreciate it.

*Exclamations of the Soul.–Our Lord demands the cause of her surprise, and questions her concerning her enjoyment in the company of spiritual persons, and of the pleasing conversations held with them. *

The Lord. Why do I behold you thus changed? What new thing have you seen that kindles in you such a flame of love? Hitherto you have seemed ready to break through the body in order to find your love, by reason of the great delight and sweet enjoyment you tasted, together with many other of your friends, with whom you were united in the bonds of that sweet and winning love; but now I see you pausing and bewildered, and caring to converse with no one.

Until now this Soul had often occupied herself in conversing with her spiritual friends on the divine love, until it seemed to them as if they were already in paradise. Oh, how sweet were these colloquies! Both he who spoke and he who listened were fed alike upon that spiritual, sweet, and delicious food, and were not satisfied to see time pass so quickly while they talked, but all inflamed and burning, could neither speak nor separate, and seemed as if beside themselves. O feasts of love! O food most exquisite! What delicious viands, what sweet union, what divine company! They spoke only of the love of God, of its operations, and how all hindrances to it might be removed. All that took place between them was so clearly seen to be from God and for the benefit of souls, that no one could think otherwise.

catholicfirst.com/thefaith/catholicclassics/catherinegenoa/catherinegenoa6.cfm#TREATISE%20ON%20PURGATORY

Thanks for sharing, Joysong!
I continued the reading from your quote in Chapter II about the Saint’s concerning of her enjoyment, and the following jumped out as soon as Chapter III starts:

Soul. Thou hast shown me, O Lord, another light in which I have seen that it is Self-Love which has hitherto moved me, and that all which has had the semblance of being wrought so lovingly for thee and in thee was self-defiled and of my own doing, and secretly appropriated to myself.

I think often time I feel this way, if I understand the Saint’s writing correctly. In my love of the Lord, in my conversation with my church friends to do with the Lord, and with all its satisfaction, how often there is this self-love existing under the cover of the love of the Lord?

Actually, before you shared this Saint’s writing, before I read the above paragraph, the concerning of “self-love” popped into my mind. But I do understand human weakness and I am never surprised at my own limit.

On the other hand, conversation about the Lord, ministry for the Lord, even with the self -love in it, is better than conversation without the Lord or faith without action that create a void in the heart. Since we are not saints, we are not ridding of this self-love yet. But it is a good thing to reflect on.

I don’t know if I made any sense. I am very exhausted from a long travel.

 

[Joysong]

Elt1956:

The only statement I can come up with is that she may not have had an “emotional” sense of God. That Joy and Fire that some of the other Saints have had. As I understand it, not all Saints had this emotional presence of God. And perhaps this is good, because as we know, depending on only emotions to steer us can cause us much trouble I have heard many times “Love is a choice and for me there is no greater evidence of love than one’s actions”.

Mother Teresa was disappointingly private about her interior life with Jesus, but we do know that prior to her mission, He spoke to her in many locutions that she has not disclosed to us, other than generally. These alone, if you know anything about locutions, come with very much spiritual inebriation.

Think about this too, that nobody could have made such a radical vow, binding oneself under pain of mortal sin, to refuse God nothing, unless there was a sublime love for God.

He doesn’t lead a soul into the dark night without there having been many touches of Divine Love preceding it. Apparently, He trusted her afterwards, to bear this darkness for His greater glory and purposes.

 

[Joysong]

InLight:

On the other hand, conversation about the Lord, ministry for the Lord, even with the self -love in it, is better than conversation without the Lord or faith without action that create a void in the heart. Since we are not saints, we are not ridding of this self-love yet. But it is a good thing to reflect on.

I don’t know if I made any sense. I am very exhausted from a long travel.

Yes, you make perfect sense, InLight!

I read the dialog again after reading your post, and I noted the Lord said to her, “but now I see you pausing and bewildered, and caring to converse with no one.”

Catherine must have recognized her self-interest in those friendships, but as God often does with very saintly souls, He purifies them of any tendencies to “spiritual gluttony” and elevates them to a more perfect, all-encompassing love for Him alone … and through Him, they carry that perfected love to their neighbors.

But I agree, conversation with God’s friends is the initial spark that wounds us with love for Him and carries us to His Sacred Heart. I read that St. Teresa and St. John of the Cross were both brought into ecstacy when they had conversations together about Christ.

Reading a little further in the dialog, I found this wonderful description that perhaps fits Mother Teresa’s work:

The works of the second state of love are done in God; these are such as are done with no view either to the advantage of one’s self or of one’s neighbor, but rest in God, with no motive in him who does them. Here man perseveres in good works through the habits of virtue which he has formed, although God has deprived him of that share in them which gave him aid and pleasure. This work is more perfect than the other, for in that there were many motives which nourished both soul and body. The works done by love are more perfect than the other two, because man has no part whatever in them; love has so subdued and conquered him that he finds himself drowned in the sea of love, and knows not where he is, but is lost in himself and left without the power to act. In this case it is love itself which works in man, and its works are works of perfection, inasmuch as they are not wrought by human power, and are works of sanctifying grace, and God accepts them all.

I am truly at a loss for words at the wonderful way God has brought all of this together for our deeper understanding! Glory and praise be to God, Amen.

 

[KingAlfred]

The only statement I can come up with is that she may not have had an “emotional” sense of God. That Joy and Fire that some of the other Saints have had. As I understand it, not all Saints had this emotional presence of God. And perhaps this is good, because as we know, depending on only emotions to steer us can cause us much trouble I have heard many times “Love is a choice and for me there is no greater evidence of love than one’s actions”.

I interpretted what little I read about her plight to suggest that perhaps she didn’t believe in God. There can be no doubt she tried to serve Him well, though.

 

[Joysong]

Hello again, KingAlfred,

I interpretted what little I read about her plight to suggest that perhaps she didn’t believe in God. There can be no doubt she tried to serve Him well, though.

That is quite understandable how any of us might interpret the word “darkness” that many attribute to her sufferings of so many long years. Mystical language has not come up with a better english word to convey the reality, unfortunately, so we are left to our own imaginings which are probably far from the truth. These are her own words on pg. 154-5, if you have the book I mentioned.

In the midst of this evident fruitfulness, almost a year after her first disclosure to the archbishop, Mother Teresa again reported to him that “my own soul remains in deep darkness and desolation. No I don’t complain — let Him do with me whatever He wants.” Surrendering anew, she sacrificed willingly the consolation of felt union with Jesus for the challenge of living by pure faith. This experience made her even more understanding and compassionate toward others, enabling her to offer encouragement and practical advice.

Despite the night within, JESUS was Mother Teresa’s sole focus; she loved Him and wanted to be united with Him, especially in His passion. A true portrait of her soul – not swayed by feelings, but steadfast in faith.

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

I haven’t read all the other posts but we are an apostolic church called to convert the world. In order to convert someone you must first become very close friends normally. We are called to do the corporal and spiritual works of mercy and these are most effective if you have friendship- that is if you hope to make a convert. You must ensure others don’t effect your kids in a bad way though if you have kids. I think a quote from St Paul answers this best -" I became all things to all men so as to save them." We should do the same.

 

[Joysong]

John Russell Jr:

I haven’t read all the other posts but . . .

Honestly, I prefer blueberry syrup on my pancakes, but you can leave off the pat of butter.

 

[littleone]

Why do you think we are given the gift of “faith”, was it to be flasher than others to be arrogant towards those without what we have or what?
There is only one reason and that is because God chose us to share the love of God with others.
Another point ----in the way God wishes each one of us to minister to others.
Another point, He gave some, one talent, others two, and others three, why? Well because God is a joyful sharing God, He’s colorful in giving to those who don’t seem to have certain gifts ones that make them stand out more than others who have a bigger mouth.
And again those who sweep the floor with a happy tune in their heart to share with the right person who needs it at the right time.

Jesus also tells us that He did not come for those who are saved or are “well” but for those who are unwell.
Then He tells you and I to " go like wise and do what He did"

Godbless
Each way all glory goes to God our Father
So with this in mind —no— in heart —who should be our friends?

 

[InLight247]

Have you ever heard the saying of “the chicken talks to the duck”? They just don’t get cross with each other.

It amazes me how often when it seems we are discussing the same topic, but actually we are not.

It has been repeatedly said that we all agree to be friends with all. The deeper discussion lies on being spiritually intimate with non Christ-centered person. No one has said we should not be friends with non Christ-centered people. We evangelize to all, be friendly with all, that is a given.

But I see how futile it is to continue this discussion.
The fact many are not even discussing the same phase proves how hard it is to be spiritually intimate with people at different levels.

 

[elts1956]

Mother Teresa was disappointingly private about her interior life with Jesus, but we do know that prior to her mission, He spoke to her in many locutions that she has not disclosed to us, other than generally. These alone, if you know anything about locutions, come with very much spiritual inebriation.

Think about this too, that nobody could have made such a radical vow, binding oneself under pain of mortal sin, to refuse God nothing, unless there was a sublime love for God.

He doesn’t lead a soul into the dark night without there having been many touches of Divine Love preceding it. Apparently, He trusted her afterwards, to bear this darkness for His greater glory and purposes.

She had a great and wonderful soul. I am sure she will be canonized a Saint.