Should we get rid of "Music Ministry?"

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Should we get rid of “Music Ministry?”

The whole notion is apostasy.

Vatican 2 mandates music as a form of prayer and evangelization, including the new evangelization, which is the ordinary form of the mass now, not the extraordinary form - although both are acceptable. It also sets the organ as the official instrument of the church.
 
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Should we get rid of “Music Ministry?”

The whole notion is apostasy.

Vatican 2 mandates music as a form of prayer and evangelization, including the new evangelization, which is the ordinary form of the mass now, not the extraordinary form - although both are acceptable. It also sets the organ as the official instrument of the church.
Well, I wouldn’t go so far as to say apostasy, but yeah, you’re pretty much right. My first thought when I saw this thread was Sacrosanctum Concilium.
 
You have the proper disposition, and I commiserate fully.

Rather than succumbing to fear that satan came through the choir - he whole purpose of the a music ministry is to allow an all inclusive voice for the community.

Everyone apparently sang in the OP’s original complaint, and that is fine and good… I am glad it was enjoyable for him/her… But just because that is the OP’s motu proprio does not mean that is everyone’s motu proprio… and, when in a Catholic (universal) church, which is intended to be all-inclusive, it is wrong to set one’s motu proprio over all to the exclusion of others…

Sing out… Let your voice be heard… and, when necessary, make sacrifices (in the form of acceptance of others)…

The essence of prayer actually isnt about the sound of the music anyway… it is about the intention behind the piece… so anyone setting the sound of a piece over the intention of the piece is not judging justly, but simply judging by appearances… and their disposition is no better than the self-righteous pharisee who was glad he wasn’t a tax collector…

Suppress my right and ability to pray? Suppress other musicians right and ability to pray? Throw us to Gehenna?

I think not…
 
It’s apostasy.

There’s really nothing else it could be called.

To make a statement like: “Is it time to get rid of organists and choirs?

When the organ is the official instrument of the church… and music is mandated… sounds similar to something like burning a flag…

What else could such a schizmatic inclination infer?

It’s a heresy that attempts to undermine the universality of both the church and music…

That’s not to say it is unforgiveable, but one begins to fall away from the universal church when their “piety” takes a viewpoint so particular as to affect the ability for others in the church to pray, especially when their is a mandate and an obligation to do as such…
 
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To say that sacred music has no place in liturgy is probably heresy… but I think you’re overstating things a bit.
 
I’m not sure it’s the music ‘ministry’ (we have always had music in the Catholic church) so much as the decline in community singing coupled with a tendency for ‘liturgists’ to ‘fix what ain’t broken’ along with trying to actually work with what should be working.

Back in the day, there were more ‘group and community events’, more small communities, suburbs even to an extent, where people DID get together and sing. There were (even up to around the 1960s) common parties where somebody played the piano, or the guitar, and people sang the kinds of songs ‘everybody knew’, from patriotic songs to stuff like Oh Susanna, Good Night Irene, In the Good old summertime, and from the 20s on popular Broadway and musical tunes, like Rodgers and Hammerstein, Lerner and Lowe, etc. In the 1960s we had lots of Bob Dylan stuff, Woody Guthrie, peace songs. . . Most people over 60 could sit down and sing for 2-3 hours all these. Since the 1970s, with so many different genres of music, and so much available (all kinds of electronic personal devices, streaming services, etc) people have more and more developed the idea that Music equals listening, either to albums or concerts, to seeing performing as either hokey karaoke or something that just isn’t DONE because nobody knows all the same stuff.

So you have a few decades of that attitude, coupled with the fact that the over 60s who DO still sing don’t have anything mostly BUT the stuff from the 70s-90s at Mass, and you’ll hear, “We play that stuff and sing it because the people LOVE IT.”

Most don’t. It’s just that older people still can and do like to sing, and if that’s all there is, we’ll sing unless we are thoroughly fed up with the lack of musicality/lack of theology.
 
It doesn’t. It discourages the congregation from participating. Musicians pride is poisonous.
Sure it does, when done well. But, what sometimes happens is that the choir tries to take center stage, and that’s where the pride comes in. Or even worse: when you get the overly amplified, arm-waving cantor that screams into the microphone. That stops any chance for congregational singing almost immediately.

A good choir that does things right will almost always aid congregational singing, rather than hinder it.
 
Yes. I wish there was no music ministry. It has led to so much discord and ignorance.
People make the same claim about Christianity in general. They take a good thing and discredit it due to human discord and ignorance.
 
Ok. But that doesn’t change the fact that it shouldnt exist the way it is in some places. My parish heck my city, has incredibly bad music. It would be better to not have any
 
Why or how did it get so bad for you thst you see the solution as as no music ministers and other special ministers.

How did it devolve into ‘us ’ and ’ them’ Pride is an individual fault, a human fault.
I dont believe any ministries shouod be paid, make them voluntary, accept eveyone interested, and put a conductor firmly in charge, not an organist, or cantor.

And put everyone in music ministry through a short formation on why, what, how, and the who of music in liturgy.
 
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Why or how did it get so bad for you thst you see the solution as as no music ministers and other special ministers.
When I saw how it Could be done, then I realized the way it Was being done made me nauseous. And lest this turn into a Traddy vs V2 scrum, I am aware of horrible us vs them attitudes at Traditional Parishes. Time to get rid of the rubble that gets in people’s way.
 
When I saw how it Could be done, then I realized the way it Was being done made me nauseous. And lest this turn into a Traddy vs V2 scrum, I am aware of horrible us vs them attitudes at Traditional Parishes. Time to get rid of the rubble that gets in people’s way.
There are other ways of doing things. push it into the way it ahould be done according to the liturgy. Music enacts the rite as well as supports the rite in different places of the Liturgy.

I go to both types of Masses, EF and OF , we dont have an us vs them attitude or an either / or. Yes the sung high masses are different, everyone still sings there, in their correct parts and hymns. We have a sung high Mass Friday night, as an option, and an open air , all people (all denominations) welcome OF Mass in the Cemetary Saturday as another option.
Like me, there are quite a few that will be at both. Its about worship of God, not humankind and different ministries.

It sounds like aspects have become quite stale for you. Your rubble is peoples attitudes and entitlement perhaps.

What role did you play in music ministry and are you still in it
 
Your argument would be stronger if the organ wasn’t so rare. Experience shows that, regardless of whatever rules are on the book, organ isn’t the common music of the Church today. You can say “we should enforce the rules better”, but I don’t think you can fault people for thinking that things have changed and can be changed again.
 
I wouldn’t be willing to say get rid of the “Music Ministry.” However, I would so appreciate it if the choir and musicians would leave “stage right” and go to the choir loft in the back and above the congregation.

I grew up in a church where the choir was in the loft and wore beautiful magenta robes. They sang beautifully as well. It created a sense of awe to hear them and when they processed down for Communion it was impressive to see them all uniformly attired, emphasizing their unity as a choir serving the Church.

Today we have a handful of people in a very small rural church that are the musicians and singers. They wear casual clothes (sneakers and leggings and t-shirts) and the singing and playing of the guitar leave much to be desired. We have a piano player once or twice a month who is not Catholic and is being paid for their services.

I wish it was different.
 
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Some (most?) places, it would be way better to have no music than the music they have (which is why daily Mass is often a more tolerable experience). That being said, even better to have good music.
 
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