Should we hate our father, mother, wife and children, brother and sisters and even ourselves?

[Gloria_de_G]

(I will not answer any objection if you had not read all this first, carefully)
Since theologians do not give a proper answer to this statement, but have to go changing the meaning of the Greek verb to hate (miseo μισεῶ ) I decided to give an answer. AND THE ANSWER IS NO

“Whoever comes to me and does not **hate **father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, cannot be my disciple. Lk 14:26

But then we are told again by Jesus in another place:

“All **who hate **a brother or sister are murderers, and you know that murderers do not have eternal life abiding in them.” 1 Jn 3:15

OR

“Those who say, “I love God,” and **hate **their brothers or sisters, are liars” 1 Jn 4:20

OR

“Honor your father and your mother, and, You shall** love **your neighbor as yourself.” Mt 19:19

AND

“For no one ever hates his own body” Ephesians 5:29

**Here there are no contractions to the first statement, which is true: we should hate our family members, ups! **
But in which way we are to hate them if we just read all the other quotes which will seem to be contradictory.

**Here is the clue: **

“And this is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.” Jn 3:19

Let us see more on evil deeds:

" 6 But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate." Rev 2:6 (for our purposes does not matter who were the Nicolaitans neither what they were doing, it is enough for us that they were doing evil so that Christ hated their deeds)

“You have loved righteousness and** hated wickedness**.” Heb 1:9

“Let love be genuine;** hate what is evil**, hold fast to what is good.” Rm 12:9

Then we can read the parallel passage in Matthew:

34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
35 For I have come to set a man against his father,
and a daughter against her mother,
and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
36** and one’s enemies will be members of one’s own household**.

37 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38 and whoever does not take up the cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Those who find their life will lose it, and those who lose their life for my sake will find it.Mt 10:34-39

Therefore if any of our family members lives an immoral life and we do not tell them nicely, with love, that they are doing wrong, so that they may change (or at least acknowledge that we do not approve), we love more our family than Christ. We are excusing their evil deeds and not hating these deeds.

The same with ourselves: if we do not hate our deeds when they are evil, as to stop doing them, we do not love Christ more than our own selves. And in this case we ought to change ourselves first before we are correcting others.

We know that God says:

“Those whom I love,** I reprove and chasten**; so be zealous and repent” Ap 3:19

Let us see why people hated Jesus:

“The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify against it, that its deeds are evil.” Jan 7:7

Therefore that is why the members of our own families will be our enemies (pray to God that may not be so, that they all are loving God in spirit and in truth)

Therefore Jesus said:

"For** whoever does the will of my Father** in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.” Mt 12:20

If you are interested tomorrow I will open another thread to answer this: “What is the will of God”

This is my first thread and I really do not know if I kept to the rules, please let me know.

In the love of Christ and His teachings,
Gloria

.

 

[LegoGE1947]

Your love for God should be so intense that your love for anything else should resemble “hatred” by comparison. At least that’s how I was led to understand. Any comments?

 

[Simca]

Whoever loves father or mother more than me

is not worthy of me; and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38 and whoever does not take up the cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Those who find their life will lose it, and those who lose their life for my sake will find it.Mt 10:34-39

Therefore if any of our family members lives an immoral life and we do not tell them nicely, with love, that they are doing wrong, so that they may change (or at least acknowledge that we do not approve), we love more our family than Christ. We are excusing their evil deeds and not hating these deeds.

The same with ourselves: if we do not hate our deeds when they are evil, as to stop doing them, we do not love Christ more than our own selves. And in this case we ought to change ourselves first before we are correcting others…

Hi Gloria,

I Like your post. It reminds me of Ezekiel 3:18

‘If I declare that the wicked will die but you don’t warn them, if you say nothing to warn them from their wicked ways so that they might live, they will die because of their guilt, but I will hold you accountable for their deaths.’ (quote from The Common English Bible)

Unfortunately, there’s a lot of evil in our world today.

Simca

 

[LegoGE1947]

Hi Gloria,

I Like your post. It reminds me of Ezekiel 3:18

‘If I declare that the wicked will die but you don’t warn them, if you say nothing to warn them from their wicked ways so that they might live, they will die because of their guilt, but I will hold you accountable for their deaths.’ (quote from The Common English Bible)

Unfortunately, there’s a lot of evil in our world today.

Simca

At the end of John’s Gospel, Jesus asked Peter, “Do you love Me more than these?” John 21:15 and following.

 

[vincent10395]

(I will not answer any objection if you had not read all this first, carefully)
Since theologians do not give a proper answer to this statement, but have to go changing the meaning of the Greek verb to hate (miseo μισεῶ ) I decided to give an answer. AND THE ANSWER IS NO

“Whoever comes to me and does not **hate **father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, cannot be my disciple. Lk 14:26

But then we are told again by Jesus in another place:

“All **who hate **a brother or sister are murderers, and you know that murderers do not have eternal life abiding in them.” 1 Jn 3:15

OR

“Those who say, “I love God,” and **hate **their brothers or sisters, are liars” 1 Jn 4:20

OR

“Honor your father and your mother, and, You shall** love **your neighbor as yourself.” Mt 19:19

AND

“For no one ever hates his own body” Ephesians 5:29

**Here there are no contractions to the first statement, which is true: we should hate our family members, ups! **
But in which way we are to hate them if we just read all the other quotes which will seem to be contradictory.

**Here is the clue: **

“And this is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.” Jn 3:19

Let us see more on evil deeds:

" 6 But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate." Rev 2:6 (for our purposes does not matter who were the Nicolaitans neither what they were doing, it is enough for us that they were doing evil so that Christ hated their deeds)

“You have loved righteousness and** hated wickedness**.” Heb 1:9

“Let love be genuine;** hate what is evil**, hold fast to what is good.” Rm 12:9

Then we can read the parallel passage in Matthew:

34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
35 For I have come to set a man against his father,
and a daughter against her mother,
and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
36** and one’s enemies will be members of one’s own household**.

37 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38 and whoever does not take up the cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Those who find their life will lose it, and those who lose their life for my sake will find it.Mt 10:34-39

Therefore if any of our family members lives an immoral life and we do not tell them nicely, with love, that they are doing wrong, so that they may change (or at least acknowledge that we do not approve), we love more our family than Christ. We are excusing their evil deeds and not hating these deeds.

The same with ourselves: if we do not hate our deeds when they are evil, as to stop doing them, we do not love Christ more than our own selves. And in this case we ought to change ourselves first before we are correcting others.

We know that God says:

“Those whom I love,** I reprove and chasten**; so be zealous and repent” Ap 3:19

Let us see why people hated Jesus:

“The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify against it, that its deeds are evil.” Jan 7:7

Therefore that is why the members of our own families will be our enemies (pray to God that may not be so, that they all are loving God in spirit and in truth)

Therefore Jesus said:

"For** whoever does the will of my Father** in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.” Mt 12:20

If you are interested tomorrow I will open another thread to answer this: “What is the will of God”

This is my first thread and I really do not know if I kept to the rules, please let me know.

In the love of Christ and His teachings,
Gloria

.

This reminds me of the “Call no man Father!” argument protestants use.

We must remember that without the right context, these verses will contradict each other.
So I would recommend going through each passage and read them in the right context.

God Bless!

-Vince

 

[Gloria_de_G]

Your love for God should be so intense that your love for anything else should resemble “hatred” by comparison. At least that’s how I was led to understand. Any comments?

Our love for God is in keeping His commandments:

“My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin” 1 Jn 2:1

"And by this we may be sure that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He who says “I know him” but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly love for God is perfected. "1 Jn 2:3-5

“If you love me, you will keep my commandments. Jn 14:15

anything else should resemble “hatred”

No I did not mean that hate for evil should be a resemblance. I just mean what the Scripture says,: that we “hate what is evil”. And I believe that this is what it means, to hate. How?
When you do not like something let us say in the realm of food, that you really hate something bacause it repulsive to you, in this way we should hate evil. That may be so repugnant to us that we do not do it.

Hope that this helps.
Gloria

.

 

[irenaeuslyons]

---

“Whoever comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, cannot be my disciple. Lk 14:26
—]
The context is key here. The very first Christians would be persecuted for their faith by their own families who were not of their faith. To love your parents is to be obedient to them. So in this context, by rejecting the faith of your parents for the Good News, was akin to hating them.

 

[Gloria_de_G]

Hi Gloria,

I Like your post. It reminds me of Ezekiel 3:18

‘If I declare that the wicked will die but you don’t warn them, if you say nothing to warn them from their wicked ways so that they might live, they will die because of their guilt, but I will hold you accountable for their deaths.’ (quote from The Common English Bible)

Unfortunately, there’s a lot of evil in our world today.

Simca

Yes Simca, we need to pray a lot to God to remain in His love. Temptations are all over us and only with prayer we can overcome them.

In the love of Christ,
Gloria

.

 

[PendingTheist]

I am appalled by the use of hate whether metaphorical, translational or contextually. Regardless, God allowed it into His good book and has caused so much confusion thus 40,000 Christian denominations. Couldn’t an all powerful perfect being have a better way to communicate back then and for millennia to come without such words as hate and cause such confusion and still make His point without confusing His creation and risk their demise?
There are verses describing God’s hate. Psalm 11:5: The Lord approves of the godly, but He hates the wicked and those who love to do violence." Malachi 1:3: "And I hated Esau…” It is often said God hates the sin and loves the sinner but these verses do not support that explanation. And if hate is metaphorical, what is the metaphorical purpose of God saying He hates Esau? Even if he mildly dislikes someone, that is still not love. Also, if God doesn’t hate, then how does He feel about wickedness? Does He merely love it less than good?

I currently am not worthy to be a Christian because I could not hate my family. I would fail the Abraham-Issac test and would also disobey if Jesus were to ask me to help genocide the heretics (Matthew weed parable), which may include family and friends, in His second coming. Even if I were to repent my disobedience He would know this was a lie.

 

[PendingTheist]

---

“Whoever comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, cannot be my disciple. Lk 14:26
—]
The context is key here. The very first Christians would be persecuted for their faith by their own families who were not of their faith. To love your parents is to be obedient to them. So in this context, by rejecting the faith of your parents for the Good News, was akin to hating them.

.

When you say “very first Christians” do you mean the disciples and if so what extra-biblical evidence do you have as to these Christian being persecuted besides the bible.

If not the disciples, do you mean the Ebionites, Marcionites, Gnostics or the Proto-Orthodox?

 

[Gloria_de_G]

I currently am not worthy to be a Christian because I could not hate my family. I would fail the Abraham-Issac test and would also disobey if Jesus were to ask me to help genocide the heretics (Matthew weed parable), which may include family and friends, in His second coming. Even if I were to repent my disobedience He would know this was a lie.

You see I am afraid to tell you **that you did not read the post properly **I NEVER SAID THAT YOU SHOULD HATE YOUR FAMILY I said that you shoud HATE EVIL DEEDS, IMMORAL BEHAVIOR, even if they are done by your family!

Hope this helps,
Gloria

.

 

[PendingTheist]

You see I am afraid to tell you **that you did not read the post properly **I NEVER SAID THAT YOU SHOULD HATE YOUR FAMILY I said that you shoud HATE EVIL DEEDS, IMMORAL BEHEIVOR, even if they are done by your family!

Hope this helps,
Gloria

.

Now why couldn’t God just say hate familial evil deeds and immoral behavior? That would make more sense and less confusion but you are re-writing scripture thus the Gospel according to Gloria.

As far a evil, According to Isaiah 45:7 God created evil. “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.” Also, Proverbs 16:4 “The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil”. Most apologists assert these must be mistranslations, despite evidence to the contrary, because it is not in God’s nature to perform evil acts as all His acts are good, like wiping out millions of humans, animals and plants in a flood. But if that is true, does that mean we have more free will than God since we are equipped to perform evil or does He choose not to do evil? If so, how do we know if He didn’t change His mind or why not create us in His “image” to have free will but choose not to perform or think evil acts? If God chooses not to help a starving or cancer stricken child then by His nature this is a good choice and we shouldn’t be interfering with His chosen “good” plan but if our innate moral behavior goes against God’s plan, are we to repent and ask for forgiveness for having intervened against His choice?

 

[Bob123Q]

remeber in hebrew there are no degree terms as in more or less than
therefore to say love God more than your parents one would have to say something like Love God hate parents

Just like how God loved Isaac and hates Isheameal really was a hebrew idom

 

[Gloria_de_G]

This reminds me of the “Call no man Father!” argument protestants use.

We must remember that without the right context, these verses will contradict each other.
So I would recommend going through each passage and read them in the right context.

God Bless!

-Vince

I am sorry Vincent but I think that the way I took the passages is acceptable to explain our problematic statement to hate our family, but as I explained are not the members in themselves but their evil deeds or immoral behavior.

Probably the only one you could say is out of context is the one of the Apocalypse Ap 2:6 but I explained why I am using it right there.

Check yourself and you will see that the context of the quotes that I used is without time limits, is for any time in our Christian era so that we may grow in holiness.

Hope this helps,
Gloria

.

 

[Gloria_de_G]

remeber in hebrew there are no degree terms as in more or less than
therefore to say love God more than your parents one would have to say something like Love God hate parents

Just like how God loved Isaac and hates Isheameal really was a hebrew idom

And what about:
Whoever loves father or mother **more **than me is not worthy of me Mt 10:37

He could have said this if he wanted it.

Hope this helps,
Gloria

.

 

[PendingTheist]

Our love for God is in keeping His commandments:

“My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin” 1 Jn 2:1

"And by this we may be sure that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He who says “I know him” but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly love for God is perfected. "1 Jn 2:3-5

“If you love me, you will keep my commandments. Jn 14:15

No I did not mean that hate for evil should be a resemblance. I just mean what the Scripture says,: that we “hate what is evil”. And I believe that this is what it means, to hate. How?
When you do not like something let us say in the realm of food, that you really hate something bacause it repulsive to you, in this way we should hate evil. That may be so repugnant to us that we do not do it.

Hope that this helps.
Gloria

.

When you say commandments do you mean the popular 10 or all 613 in the Old Testament that Jesus said he didn’t come to change but uphold. Matthew 5:17-20: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have not come to abolish these things but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth pass away not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter will pass from the law until everything takes place. So anyone who breaks one of the least of these commands and teaches others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever obeys them and teaches others to do so will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness goes beyond that of the experts in the law and the Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

Also, if only the 10, which 10? The 10 in Exodus 20 and Deuteronimy 5 or the actual 10, in Exodus 34, that are written on stone tablets and specified as the 10 after Moses smashed the first ten?

 

[Gloria_de_G]

Now why couldn’t God just say hate familial evil deeds and immoral behavior? That would make more sense and less confusion but you are re-writing scripture thus the Gospel according to Gloria.

I do not see anything wrong with interpreting Scripture with Scripture, this is the way that the Conference of Bishops says is the right way to understand what God wanted to tell us. Therefore I do not believe that I am rewriting the Gospel. But to understand this **hate of deeds **you need to understand why the world hated Jesus:

“hates me because **I testify **against it that its works are evil.” Jn 7:7

“If the world hates you, know that **it has hated me **before it hated you." Jn 15:18

As far a evil, According to Isaiah 45:7 God created evil. “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.” Also, Proverbs 16:4 “The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil”. Most apologists assert these must be mistranslations, despite evidence to the contrary, because it is not in God’s nature to perform evil acts as all His acts are good, like wiping out millions of humans, animals and plants in a flood. But if that is true, does that mean we have more free will than God since we are equipped to perform evil or does He choose not to do evil? If so, how do we know if He didn’t change His mind or why not create us in His “image” to have free will but choose not to perform or think evil acts? If God chooses not to help a starving or cancer stricken child then by His nature this is a good choice and we shouldn’t be interfering with His chosen “good” plan but if our innate moral behavior goes against God’s plan, are we to repent and ask for forgiveness for having intervened against His choice?

We are equipped as you said to perform evil since the fall, but with Jesus Christ advent we are able to recognize what is good and what is bad, and if you can not recognize it is because you still love more sin than holiness.

As for the rest of your arguments since I think it will not help us to go to the OT for this kind of information, forgive me but I am not going to get involve, I will tell you what Jesus taught us:

The law and the prophets up to John the Baptist. Lk 16:16

Hope you forgive me,
Gloria

.

 

[PendingTheist]

I do not see anything wrong with interpreting Scripture with Scripture, this is the way that the Conference of Bishops says is the right way to understand what God wanted to tell us. Therefore I do not believe that I am rewriting the Gospel. But to understand this **hate of deeds **you need to understand why the world hated Jesus:

“hates me because **I testify **against it that its works are evil.” Jn 7:7

“If the world hates you, know that **it has hated me **before it hated you." Jn 15:18

We are equipped as you said to perform evil since the fall, but with Jesus Christ advent we are able to recognize what is good and what is bad, and if you can not recognize it is because you still love more sin than holiness.

As for the rest of your arguments since I think it will not help us to go to the OT for this kind of information, forgive me but I am not going to get involve, I will tell you what Jesus taught us:

The law and the prophets up to John the Baptist. Lk 16:16

Hope you forgive me,
Gloria

.

I dont mean to put words on your post ( in your mouth) but are you saying people who don’t know Jesus can not know what is good and bad? Or that good health, no pain and life are preferably to poor health, pain and death?
I believe most non-psychotic humans would agree kicking a pregnant woman in the stomach is bad with or without Jesus teachings. Would you agree?

 

[Gloria_de_G]

When you say commandments do you mean the popular 10 or all 613 in the Old Testament that Jesus said he didn’t come to change but uphold. Matthew 5:17-20: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have not come to abolish these things but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth pass away not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter will pass from the law until everything takes place. So anyone who breaks one of the least of these commands and teaches others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever obeys them and teaches others to do so will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness goes beyond that of the experts in the law and the Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

Also, if only the 10, which 10? The 10 in Exodus 20 and Deuteronimy 5 or the actual 10, in Exodus 34, that are written on stone tablets and specified as the 10 after Moses smashed the first ten?

I am sorry, you see I am a Catholic and have a Church who helps me to understand the commandments in the way they should be understood for Christians who want to practice their faith. So we also have Jesus who teaches us directly. For example:

The Pharisees will teach to the people not to commit adultery but Jesus goes beyond their teaching, to the root of the problem:

“But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”.Mt 5:28

But let me recommend you the Catechism of the Catholic Church, you can search here for the 10 commandments and more:

usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/epub/index.cfm?p=37-chapter17.xhtml%23para2380#

Hope this helps,
Gloria

.

 

[getysbg]

This reminds me of the “Call no man Father!” argument protestants use.

We must remember that without the right context, these verses will contradict each other.
So I would recommend going through each passage and read them in the right context.

God Bless!

-Vince

Both this and the “Call no man Father” are examples of hyperbole. So is " if your eye offends thee, then pluck it out". Jesus used this as a way of teaching by exaggeration.