Should we in good conscience attend court marriages of catholics?

[Patri]

Evening everyone. So I’m sometimes faced with the dilemma when someone that is a baptised Catholic marries in court; to go or not to go? It can be because the person is no longer a practising Catholic or is dating someone who is divorced. I have heard that we are not to cause scandal and should attend or are we to give testimony and not support such a union? Taking into consideration that in most cases, the couple sees nothing wrong with it and does not share my moral values.

 

[Elf01]

Personally I wouldn’t attend.

 

[Patri]

Personally I wouldn’t attend

I am inclined not to but I have found myself in difficult situations with people close to me, either because their churches allow divorce and remarriage and so don’t see it as wrong or they are no longer practicing the faith. Saying something feels like judging and not saying something feels like somehow accepting or not caring enough about their souls. I don’t know how you guys solve similar issues.

 

[Elf01]

I am inclined not to but I have found myself in difficult situations with people close to me, either because their churches allow divorce and remarriage and so don’t see it as wrong or they are no longer practicing the faith. Saying something feels like judging and not saying something feels like somehow accepting or not caring enough about their souls. I don’t know how you guys solve similar issues.

In my case it was my sister who married outside the Church. I did not attend. I sent her a text wishing them the best on the day of the wedding. We are still talking.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Evening everyone. So I’m sometimes faced with the dilemma when someone that is a baptised Catholic marries in court; to go or not to go? It can be because the person is no longer a practising Catholic or is dating someone who is divorced. I have heard that we are not to cause scandal and should attend or are we to give testimony and not support such a union? Taking into consideration that in most cases, the couple sees nothing wrong with it and does not share my moral values.

Just don’t go.

I would tell the person, if I had to, something like:

“We know each other well enough for you to realize, and I hope you do, that I cannot attend this ceremony. Because of the circumstances, it would violate my conscience to attend. If it were the other way around, I would understand fully why you couldn’t attend, and I wouldn’t expect you to violate your conscience either. I think the world of you and your partner, and I wish you nothing but the best, now and always. I’ll always be there for you, come what may, but this one thing, I cannot do.”

 

[CelticWarlord]

I have heard that we are not to cause scandal

I don’t see you as the one causing any sort of scandal in this situation. I’m not Catholic and see nothing wrong with attending a ceremony involving two committed people. Only you can decide, of course, but see what your priest says about it.

 

[rosejmj]

I wouldn’t see anything wrong with attending. I wouldn’t even see it as scandal. Especially if the people aren’t practicing Catholics or don’t consider themselves Catholic. It may still be a valid marriage in the eyes of God if their intentions were good and it’s not for you to decide whether or not it is just because they may have been baptized. I would understand not attending a gay marriage or remarriage if a divorced person(although even then how do you know they were truly married if eg they were married outside the church or are in a position that makes an annulment possible.

Also it’s better and good that they are making a commitment to each other rather than having " pre-marital sex"

 

[JulianN]

I think the world of you and your partner, and I wish you nothing but the best, now and always. I’ll always be there for you, come what may, but this one thing, I cannot do.”

Honestly asking – would you be there for them if they make other decisions with which you disagree? What if they have a baby and decide to baptize him/her as an Episcopalian? Would you attend the ceremony?

 

[CTBcin]

It may still be a valid marriage in the eyes of God if their intentions were good and it’s not for you to decide whether or not it is just because they may have been baptized.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but:

If I remember my canon law correctly, when a baptized Catholic gets married outside of the Church, it is an absence of proper form. The marriage in this case is both invalid and illicit. It is neither a sacramental marriage nor is it a natural marriage.

But someone with a better understanding of canon law is free to correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[Patri]

My son recently married a lovely girl, not baptised. They married outside by a civil celebrant. I asked a clergy member who happened to be a Bishop, doing Confessions that day, was it a sin to go to the wedding. He said of course not, Go celebrate and do not push them away from you with actions like that. Pray and actively promote their conversion, reversion and for the baptism of grandchildren you can bring to the faith.
Be that witness for God in their lives.

This was for a first marriage, no divorces involved

My problem in most cases is that one of the spouses is divorced but they do not believe it is a sin. I know they feel they are not harming anybody because for them divorce is enough and they will not understand my not going.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

I think the world of you and your partner, and I wish you nothing but the best, now and always. I’ll always be there for you, come what may, but this one thing, I cannot do.”

Nope. We’d have the exact same conversation.

Disagreement, I can live with. Being called upon to bless a blasphemy or a sacrilege, that’s another thing entirely.

Actually, in hyper-traditionalist circles, I would be viewed as a dangerous liberal. Case in point: if my son — God forbid, I’d sooner die a horrible death than see this happen — were to grow up to be gay, marry another man, and father children with a surrogate, the couple and their family would most certainly be welcome in my home, I would love those grandbabies with all my heart, Thanksgiving dinner would be a festive occasion, I would be honored for us to travel together as a family. Throw out that scenario at your neighborhood SSPX chapel or sedevacantist Mass site, and see what happens.

Not sure how we’d handle the overnight sleeping situation. Things can always be worked out.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Taking into consideration that in most cases, the couple sees nothing wrong with it and does not share my moral values.

Do you want to go? If not coming up with an excuse or ghosting away for the duration might be the easiest way to avoid the whole thing.

I have found myself in difficult situations with people close to me, either because their churches allow divorce and remarriage and so don’t see it as wrong or they are no longer practicing the faith. Saying something feels like judging and not saying something feels like somehow accepting or not caring enough about their souls. I don’t know how you guys solve similar issues.

There is no obligation to go.

 

[Patri]

Do you want to go? If not coming up with an excuse or ghosting away for the duration might be the easiest way to avoid the whole thing.

I think going away that weekend is a good idea:joy:.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Do you want to go? If not coming up with an excuse or ghosting away for the duration might be the easiest way to avoid the whole thing.

This actually happened to me. My cousin was marrying outside the Church after having divorced his Catholic wife (married in the Church). I was 18 and agonizing about what to do. Just then a friend of mine invited me, on the spur of the moment, to go get a case of beer and go down to his grandparents’ cabin at the lake for the weekend, four hours away. (You could buy beer at 18 back then where we lived, over in the neighboring “wet” county.) Deus ex machina!

 

[Thorolfr]

JulianN:

I think the world of you and your partner, and I wish you nothing but the best, now and always. I’ll always be there for you, come what may, but this one thing, I cannot do.”

Nope. We’d have the exact same conversation.

Disagreement, I can live with. Being called upon to bless a blasphemy or a sacrilege, that’s another thing entirely.

How would a baby being baptized in an Episcopal church be a blasphemy or a sacrilege? As far as I know, the Catholic Church would recognize such a baptism as a valid one.

 

[Edmundus1581]

I asked a clergy member who happened to be a Bishop, doing Confessions that day, was it a sin to go to the wedding. He said of course not, Go celebrate and do not push them away from you with actions like that.

That was exactly the advice I received from a priest when I had a similar dilemma thirty five years ago. I only asked once and have followed the advice ever since, and found repeatedly that it was good advice.

We could also ask why do Catholic clergy attend Protestant ordinations, and so on, knowing that it is an invalid sacrament? It’s out of respect for the persons, for the in-good-faith intentions of the ceremony, and also out of sensitivity to our relationships with people we disagree with.

Where I would hesitate would be if I were invited to the wedding of a couple who had broken up a family and I was also friends with the victims (abandoned spouse and children). Having been the victim in this situation, I was quite hurt by mutual friends who had attended our own Catholic wedding ten years ago and also attended second wedding.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Nope. We’d have the exact same conversation.

Disagreement, I can live with. Being called upon to bless a blasphemy or a sacrilege, that’s another thing entirely.

No, upon reflection, I will concede, “blasphemy” or “sacrilege” isn’t quite the word. We all misspeak from time to time. But I would still not go witness the de facto removal, you could say, of one of my descendants from the Catholic Church, and I would not go to celebrate the fact that my grandchild was going to be raised without the fullness of the Catholic Faith in union with the Holy Father. Again, my stated stance would be along of the lines of “you know I cannot do this, and you know why — if the tables were turned — if you were the faithful Roman Catholic and I had, let’s say, married outside the Church, fathered another child, and were having your half-brother or half-sister baptized by Protestants— I would not expect it of you either”.

Just for the record, if this grandchild of mine were being confirmed as a young adult, I would reluctantly attend the ceremony and give as generous a gift as I could. It would not be their fault that they were raised in error, and it would be their decision. (But I would hope that I could find a way into their heart, mind, and soul to bring them into the one true Church one of these days.)

We could also ask why do Catholic clergy attend Protestant ordinations, and so on, knowing that it is an invalid sacrament? It’s out of respect for the persons, for the in-good-faith intentions of the ceremony, and also out of sensitivity to our relationships with people we disagree with.

If someone had left the Catholic Church and were being ordained a Protestant minister, I wouldn’t attend that either, for the same reasons. If they had never been Catholic, no problem. But I would not celebrate a defection from the Church.

The wife of a friend of mine was ordained as an Episcopal priest (AFAIK she had never been Catholic). While I didn’t attend the ceremony — we weren’t that close and I wouldn’t have been expected to — I always spoke of his wife’s decision and ministry with the highest respect. (Would be nice if the PECUSA weren’t officially pro-choice.)

Posts from the Hill – The Episcopal Church

 

[Patri]

Go and give them a Bible for a wedding present.
I would.

I was a catechism teacher and the few I have kept in touch with are not practising, I fear similar surprises and that I will be expected to attend. They are wonderful ladies but do not go to church.

 

[Edmundus1581]

If someone had left the Catholic Church and were being ordained a Protestant minister, I wouldn’t attend that either, for the same reasons. If they had never been Catholic, no problem. But I would not celebrate a defection from the Church.

A very good “hypothetical” to illustrate my point. Thanks!

 

[TC3033]

But I would still not go witness the de facto removal, you could say, of one of my descendants from the Catholic Church

Aren’t you kind of moving the goalposts here. We don’t even know if we’re talking about relatives at all…or would you just never step foot into a non-Catholic Church?

Just for the record, if this grandchild of mine were being confirmed as a young adult, I would reluctantly attend the ceremony and give as generous a gift as I could.

TBH, if I were the parents in this situation…if you couldn’t/wouldn’t attend the baptism and are “reluctantly” attending the confirmation I’d probably just ask you stay home and to hold onto your gift. ¯_(ツ)_/¯