Should We Just Toll the Death Knell for the Extraordinary Form of the Latin Rite?

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Bigcat71 said:
I will relate a story here. Shortly after Pope John Paul 2 allowed the Traditional Mass to be celebrated, the people of San Diego requested that they be allowed to have one. A Priest was assigned by the Diocese to celebrate the Masses. He did so out of obedience, but told people that he had no special love for the Traditional Form of the Mass. However as the years went by he stated that he saw just the exposure to the Traditional Mass led him to celebrate the Ordinary Form more reverently. At first there was no set place for the Mass to be held. Sometime later the Diocese permitted the Mass to be celebrated at the cemetary chapel at St. Josephs Cemetary. This Chapel is inside of the mauseleum itself… The Chapel was very small and the crowds large. Standing room only to be exact. The overflow of people spilled over into the halls and among the crypts themselves, which I actually thought vividly brought home th realization that we are one Church, the living and the dead.

Anyway, every Sunday a rosary was said asking the Blesssed Virgin for intercession for help in getting a permanent Church so that the Mass could be properly celebrated. This went on for many years, during which time the members of the congregation steadily grew in number. Young people, families, singles, old people, white, black, Hispanic, Asian you name it. When the Priest that had been celebrating the Mass retired a new priest from the Norbertine Abbey at Silver Lake, California was assigned. The Masses continued unabated. On occasion the Mass was allowed to be celebrated at other area churches. On several occasions the Arch Bishop himself stopped by and celebrated the Mass there.

In 2008 the prayers of the faithful were answered and St Annes Church, that had been shut down in 2006 due to declining membership, was assigned to be a fully traditional Parish run by the FSSP. Now they celebrate Traditional Masses twice daily as well as four a day on Sundays. I think that the San Diego experience is more typical of what is really going on with the Traditional Mass then what you see posted on here by those who want to see it gone for good

…stannes-sandiego.org/
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Very inspiring story. Thanks for sharing.
ProVobis said:
I see it as the gold standard of the Latin Rite Mass. Though many don’t like to exchange gold or pretend it’s not there, nevertheless it does impact everything else too IN THE LONG RUN. It’s already had a profound effect in bilingual parishes who offer them. In fact it has saved a few parishes. The right-intentioned pastors and bishops (and the Pope) look at the whole picture, sum of all people attending, happy to see crowds at both, not just pit one group vs another.
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Well said.

And just to go off on a tangent, I love the EWTN masses (I happen to have it on right now).
 
Well, if the EF was rolled out to an entire diocese as the exclusive form of the Mass, there would be mass (ha ha) defections and a lot of the people would be attending the EF in flip flops and shorts.

I don’t think the EF will ever be dead, but I don’t think that the majority of American Catholics will be attending the EF anytime in the next 50 years.

We should be focusing instead on the reasons for the lack of reverence and lack of belief in the Catholics we have and do something to bring our brothers and sisters in the pews to salvation.
 
PaulinVA said:
Well, if the EF was rolled out to an entire diocese as the exclusive form of the Mass, there would be mass (ha ha) defections and a lot of the people would be attending the EF in flip flops and shorts.
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What do you think of having an EF mass every now and then in an OF parish for feast days? That would expose some people to it and then it would truly be an Extraordinary form, saved for special occasions.
 
Pope Benedict won’t let the OF and EF like that just yet. I am (not 100%) positive that he would do some sort of liturgical reform, or at least, something about it.
 
TrueLight said:
What do you think of having an EF mass every now and then in an OF parish for feast days? That would expose some people to it and then it would truly be an Extraordinary form, saved for special occasions.
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Yes, that would not be bad. BUT, the EF will hit a wall of acceptance at some point. I can’t see further acceptance because of the perception its a step backwards. As I said, let’s meet the people in the pews where they are and go from there.
 
admonsta said:
I’ve been attending the EF for the last 15 years in Melbourne’s diocese. I, and many others who attend, have to travel over an hour to get to this Mass. I believe it has its place, it isn’t a replacement for the OF, but there are people who feel drawn to the EF. I think a lot of graces come from this devotion.

Our Priest has mentioned that he receives a lot of visitors from the seminaries, who come because they are interested in the EF. It’s not part of their training, and if they want to go they have to do it in their own time.

I will happily attend a OF Mass, but I will not stop attending the EF, because for me it is a great, reverent, totally Catholic Mass.
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The same in Sydney, at Maternal Heart of Mary Chapel (larger than the average chapel!), at Lewisham. Hats off to the FSSP priests for their total fidelity to the POST-VATICAN II Church, and willing co-operation with the Novus Ordo folks. One FSSP priest (Fr. Duncan Wong) helps a NO priest (Fr. Peter Joseph, who`s also Chancellor of the Maronite Diocese of Australia) hear Confessions on First Saturdays. No badmouthing the OF from these fellas!

The walking-sticks are well and truly outnumbered by toddlers…young families,young people attending on their own…outstanding sermons. The only bells that need to be rung are the type that are rung at the end of the 1812 Overture, but even more triumphantly!

Thanks be to God for Cardinal Pell.

The TLM`s future is assured; and it can stand on its own two feet alongside the Novis Ordo, so that we can choose.

For those who deny that the Novus Ordo can be celebrated reverently:
en.gloria.tv/?media=156829

Actually, it`s the best of both worlds!

Speaking of Cardinal Pell: at the 5:30pm OF Mass in Saint Marys Cathedral (Sydney) yesterday (Wednesday), i noticed that some of the new translation had been sneaked in. Its certainly an improvement.
 
PaulinVA said:
BUT, the EF will hit a wall of acceptance at some point.
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This happened during the 60’s as the old rite was being “dumbed down” (certain prayers removed, babelized, priest facing the people, etc.) I would hate to see that happen again.
 
TrueLight said:
Hi Lazlo,

Can you go a little more into what you mean by this?
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The Ordinary Form churches are still packed recruiting their attendance from a 2 mile circle.

I our County (total population 800,000; estimated Catholics 300,000) there is one location of the usus antiquior, about hundred sixty people average attendance on the Sunday mass. The location is quite central available by 30 minutes drive everywhere from the county. The same church has 4 new form masses to in every weekend, with the same or larger attendance.

In every day there are two masses, the TLM and the Ordinary form; this later has twice as much attendance, proving that the daily churchgoer prefer the new form. Once again the new form is full reverent with Gregorian chant, communion kneeling and to tongue, opportunity for confession in every mass and before; just as the council dreamed about the Mass.

One more point, about my territorial parish. When I was young and fresh there was fourteen priest running a parish of same size. Here in this parish (4500 registered parishioners, about 2000 weekend attendance) there is just one priest, and a visitor on Sundays. Despite this the parish has vibrant community life, as active or more as was by 14 priest in my childhood. The parish is run by lay activist, who like the parish sacrifice their time and talent for it. This is typical at least around here, the result of Vatican II.
 
laszlo said:
The Ordinary Form churches are still packed recruiting their attendance from a 2 mile circle.

I our County (total population 800,000; estimated Catholics 300,000) there is one location of the usus antiquior, about hundred sixty people average attendance on the Sunday mass. The location is quite central available by 30 minutes drive everywhere from the county. The same church has 4 new form masses to in every weekend, with the same or larger attendance.

In every day there are two masses, the TLM and the Ordinary form; this later has twice as much attendance, proving that the daily churchgoer prefer the new form. Once again the new form is full reverent with Gregorian chant, communion kneeling and to tongue, opportunity for confession in every mass and before; just as the council dreamed about the Mass.

One more point, about my territorial parish. When I was young and fresh there was fourteen priest running a parish of same size. Here in this parish (4500 registered parishioners, about 2000 weekend attendance) there is just one priest, and a visitor on Sundays. Despite this the parish has vibrant community life, as active or more as was by 14 priest in my childhood. The parish is run by lay activist, who like the parish sacrifice their time and talent for it. This is typical at least around here, the result of Vatican II.
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I believe in the world we live in today, a truly reverent OF will always attract more people. And maybe this is the death knell for the EF.

I would attend a reverent OF with kneeling, lots of Latin and communion kneeling and on the tongue with no problem.
 
TrueLight said:
I believe in the world we live in today, a truly reverent OF will always attract more people. And maybe this is the death knell for the EF.
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I do not believe that the Usus antiquior will die out. There are people who like the sacred to be distant, and this is a legitimate claim. They will have faithful servants too, and the two rite will live together, as the Eastern Catholics live in full unity.

The folks who believe that hey are better people if they request the old form, will be deteriorated as some old Catholics did: married clergy, women priests, alternative sexuality. There is no life outside of the root.
 
Should We Just Toll the Death Knell for the Extraordinary Form of the Latin Rite?
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Not at our parish! The EF is alive and well, and growing all the time in attendance! 👍

And we have tons of young people at our EF Masses as well (which, btw, is spelled with a capital “M”…just a reminder to some) :rolleyes: .

If anything, the EF Mass is growing and spreading, and this is entirely due to our Holy Father and his love for the rich and beautiful history and tradition of our Faith.

~Liza
 
lizaanne said:
And we have tons of young people at our EF Masses as well (which, btw, is spelled with a capital “M”…just a reminder to some) :rolleyes: .

~Liza
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Really? I had no idea. Why is that?

I think I’ve seen “missa” in small letters?
 
laszlo said:
I do not believe that the Usus antiquior will die out. There are people who like the sacred to be distant, and this is a legitimate claim. They will have faithful servants too, and the two rite will live together, as the Eastern Catholics live in full unity.

The folks who believe that hey are better people if they request the old form, will be deteriorated as some old Catholics did: married clergy, women priests, alternative sexuality. There is no life outside of the root.
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Ah, but you’re referring to them as “rites”, not forms. Is that what you expect will happen eventually:?
 
Death Knell for the EF ? Anyone who believes that doesn’t really know what Latin Mass folks are really like.
 
TrueLight said:
Ah, but you’re referring to them as “rites”, not forms. Is that what you expect will happen eventually:?
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The Eastern rites (also the Western rites) are called so due to structural differences. The Usus antiquior is structurally the same as the new form.
 
TrueLight said:
Really? I had no idea. Why is that?

I think I’ve seen “missa” in small letters?
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English – owing to its German-Saxon heritage, no doubt, where essentially every noun must be capitalized – tends to capitalize a lot more words than Latin and the Romance languages. The English obsession over whether to capitalize pronouns referring to Christ, or “tradition vs. Tradition,” would be incomprehensible to a Latin-speaker.
 
Seamus_L said:
Death Knell for the EF ? Anyone who believes that doesn’t really know what Latin Mass folks are really like.
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Indeed. I remember hearing one guy back before Summorum Pontificum saying something like: the thing those Novus Ordo Bishops don’t understand is that we will never, ever give up.

And I think it was one of the SSPX bishops who, when asked how long it would take to “restore tradition” said something like “Oh, maybe two or three hundred years.”
 
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