Should we kneel at Mass?

[HobbitShoe]

Every Sunday at Mass, our pastor tells us to kneel after the Sanctus, and most of the congregation remains standing. There was an argument about this last week in RCIA, and the teacher claimed that when the priest says to kneel, we may remain standing “to represent the risen Christ.”

I asked our DRE about it. She confirmed what our RCIA teacher said, but was unable to provide any evidence to support the claim. She said this is what she learned from people around the time of the Second Vatican Council. Isn’t that hearsay? She also recommended that I read the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, so I did.

The GIRM says 1) we must be united in our postures at Mass, 2) this is accomplished by obeying the priest, and 3) kneeling during the consecration is mandatory for all churches in the United States.

I have had no luck finding alternative instructions. Our DRE said they might be in the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, so I read that as well. “Constitution” is the operative word in that title. The document set parameters for reviewing liturgical practices throughout the Church, but it did not make any specific changes except for a few decrees to complete ongoing projects. It said nothing about standing during the consecration.

I’m trying to understand our catechists, but I can’t find anything to support what they are teaching. The magisterial documents of the church could fill a library, so I’m asking you good folks at Catholic Answers for help. There are really three questions here:

1. Should we always obey commands given by the priest at Mass?
2. May we remain standing during the consecration if we are physically able to kneel?
3. Where does the church encourage us to stand during the consecration to “represent the risen Christ?”

 

[edward_george]

In the Dioceses of the United States, the faithful are to kneel from the Sanctus to the Great Amen. The priest is right about this. No one has any authority to change this, nor will you find anything justifying “standing to represent the risen Christ.” Kneel after the Sanctus, in obedience to the rubrics and your priest. If others won’t do so, that’s on them.

-Fr ACEGC

 

[jilly4ski]

In the Dioceses of the United States, the faithful are to kneel from the Sanctus to the Great Amen. The priest is right about this. No one has any authority to change this, nor will you find anything justifying “standing to represent the risen Christ.” Kneel after the Sanctus, in obedience to the rubrics and your priest. If others won’t do so, that’s on them.

-Fr ACEGC

This, and if one can physically not kneel then it is perfectly acceptable to remain standing (though I know a lot of old people here sit, sit on the edge of the pew, or half kneel so as to not stick out.

Here is the relevant text of the GIRM for the United States usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/general-instruction-of-the-roman-missal/girm-chapter-2.cfm

In the Dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus (Holy, Holy, Holy) until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by ill health, or for reasons of lack of space, of the large number of people present, or for another reasonable cause. However, those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the Priest genuflects after the Consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.[53]

For the sake of uniformity in gestures and bodily postures during one and the same celebration, the faithful should follow the instructions which the Deacon, a lay minister, or the Priest gives, according to what is laid down in the Missal.

 

[phil19034]

Every Sunday at Mass, our pastor tells us to kneel after the Sanctus, and most of the congregation remains standing. There was an argument about this last week in RCIA, and the teacher claimed that when the priest says to kneel, we may remain standing “to represent the risen Christ.”

I asked our DRE about it. She confirmed what our RCIA teacher said, but was unable to provide any evidence to support the claim. She said this is what she learned from people around the time of the Second Vatican Council. Isn’t that hearsay? She also recommended that I read the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, so I did.

The GIRM says 1) we must be united in our postures at Mass, 2) this is accomplished by obeying the priest, and 3) kneeling during the consecration is mandatory for all churches in the United States.

I have had no luck finding alternative instructions. Our DRE said they might be in the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, so I read that as well. “Constitution” is the operative word in that title. The document set parameters for reviewing liturgical practices throughout the Church, but it did not make any specific changes except for a few decrees to complete ongoing projects. It said nothing about standing during the consecration.

I’m trying to understand our catechists, but I can’t find anything to support what they are teaching. The magisterial documents of the church could fill a library, so I’m asking you good folks at Catholic Answers for help. There are really three questions here:

1. Should we always obey commands given by the priest at Mass?
2. May we remain standing during the consecration if we are physically able to kneel?
3. Where does the church encourage us to stand during the consecration to “represent the risen Christ?”

You should kneel. The priest says to kneel and you should kneel.

I would also recommend that you tell the priest (assuming we are talking about the pastor) what the RCIA teacher said and the DRE. They are obviously going against the priest and the bishop (if you are in the United States).

 

[pianistclare]

Of course Father & Jilly are correct.
You instructors may be confusing this moment in the Mass with the practice in some Diocese of standing during communion.
I don’t care for it, but it is permitted, and I have heard a former pastor cite the same reason.
I think they may be confused.

 

[truetofaith]

One parish has folding chairs & no kneelers so the people have to stand. I sit by the back wall so I have room to kneel with room in front of me. I’m getting older and my knees are beginning to hurt on the hard floor.

 

[RCinMT]

People ignore the priest? Seriously? If I were the priest I would just stop the mass and stand there.

 

[FrenzyJen]

Are there any special orders that have been given for your diocese? I know for the last 15 years or so in my diocese, our last bishop told us to remain standing at that point. I hate it, but I do it. Could it be possible there is a similar mandate, however frustrating, in your diocese?

 

[RPRPsych]

Antipathy towards kneeling, when it does not proceed from a physical disability, is a sign of either spiritual pride or ignorance of the reverential fear one ought to have in the presence of God. Think about it.

 

[DignumEtJustum]

Of course we are to kneel at the Sanctus if not right through to Communion then again after the Pater Noster at the Agnus Dei until at least after the Domine non sum dignus and probably until we go up for Communion or remain kneeling if we are not in a State of Grace and therefore not receiving Communion. After Communion we should be kneeling until the closing of the tabernacle. Anyone suggesting otherwise is unfamiliar with the Roman Rite of the Catholic Mass.

 

[RPRPsych]

Of course we are to kneel at the Sanctus if not right through to communion then again after the Pater Noster at the Agnus Dei until at least after the Domine non sum dignus and probably until we go up for Communion or remain kneeling if we are not in a State of Grace and therefore not receiving Communion. After Communion we should be kneeling until the closing of the tabernacle. Anyone suggesting otherwise is unfamiliar with the Roman Rite of the Catholic Mass.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

OP, it sounds as though the real issue in your parish is confusion. The RCIA instructor and DRE should not be teaching students something contrary to what the pastor is teaching. The pastor is supposed to be in charge of teaching in his parish. The bishop is supposed to be in charge of teaching in his diocese. Please do not judge any of these people too harshly. We, perhaps, live in an age of confusion.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Do what your Priest asks. Afterall you are there for celebration of the Eucharist, which is dependent on having the Priest there.

Straight after Mass one day a week, we have Eucharist Adoration. So the Priest asks us to kneel again while it is all prepared etc. He then plays 5 really beautiful hymns. After that he leaves for about 45min. We can sit or kneel after he leaves. Then when he comes back with incense and prayers, in his special robe, we again are asked to kneel.

If we rebelled for no reason, there would be silence until we were sorted. He stops mass if a phone rings, till its turned off.

Of course if you cant kneel due to infirmity, fair enough.

 

[DignumEtJustum]

… If we rebelled for no reason, there would be silence until we were sorted…

I was thinking this. Most priests in my experience would standby idly until the congregation complies with instructions or until the passing bus or whatever else making a loud noise ceases.

 

[casslean]

People ignore the priest? Seriously? If I were the priest I would just stop the mass and stand there.

This is what I find astounding. Maybe I’m just a little too obedient, but I don’t assume I know better than the priest does, and regardless, wouldn’t be so disrespectful as to be openly defiant in the middle of Mass.

 

[HobbitShoe]

Thank you all so much for helping. I suspected we were being taught the wrong thing. This brings up a whole slew of other questions since I’m supposed to be baptized this Easter and now I can’t trust anything I’ve heard in RCIA. I’ll just stick to the Catechism for now. Thanks again!

 

[SMHW]

There was an argument about this last week in RCIA, and the teacher claimed that when the priest says to kneel, we may remain standing “to represent the risen Christ.”

I asked our DRE about it. She confirmed what our RCIA teacher said, but was unable to provide any evidence to support the claim. She said this is what she learned from people around the time of the Second Vatican Council.

These religious instructors seem trapped in the past.

Back in the 1970s and 1980s there were some dioceses in the United States where the bishop mandated standing during the Eucharistic Prayer for that particular diocese. This was at a time when some in the Latin Church seem to have ‘discovered’ the Eastern Catholic Churches and apparently tried to integrate a few select Eastern practices into Western liturgies.

All this should have come to a stop once the new Roman Missal came out but some people seem to have an unhealthy attachment to certain practices.

Now the G.I.R.M. does provide for standing during the Eucharistic Prayer when local conditions make kneeling problematic. These conditions would usually be temporary and my understanding is that the priest can tell people to stand based on those circumstances (even if the people are willing to kneel.)

But that is obviously not the case for the OP’s parish. Is there some missing piece to this story? It just seems bizarre that a DRE would still be employed if she was teaching things in opposition to what the priest was requesting.

 

[phil19034]

Thank you all so much for helping. I suspected we were being taught the wrong thing. This brings up a whole slew of other questions since I’m supposed to be baptized this Easter and now I can’t trust anything I’ve heard in RCIA. I’ll just stick to the Catechism for now. Thanks again!

get a subscription to FORMED.org ($9.99 per month and a free 7 day trial) and start watching the Symbolon series. It was designed to an add on to RCIA.

Plus, there are PLENTY of other good things in there.

God Bless

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Are there any special orders that have been given for your diocese? I know for the last 15 years or so in my diocese, our last bishop told us to remain standing at that point. I hate it, but I do it. Could it be possible there is a similar mandate, however frustrating, in your diocese?

Yes, this was common in some western diocese and is now being phased out. There are some stragglers left.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

One parish has folding chairs & no kneelers so the people have to stand. I sit by the back wall so I have room to kneel with room in front of me. I’m getting older and my knees are beginning to hurt on the hard floor.

The lack of kneelers does not negate the obligation. Kneelers are rather modern in the life of the church and many places still don’t have them, and yet, those who are able still kneel…