Should we pray for the non-elect?

[abdulmasih]

I had an enemy in high school. If any human being were the son of the evil one, he would be it. He was proud, selfish, unimaginably cruel and inhumane. He hassled me every other day and insulted my race (I’m a Chinese Jew). I need to know: is there any reason for praying for his salvation? By his very nature I could see he’s non-elect and I also could discern that he would likely never change. Your opinions are welcome.

 

[1newcatholic]

I had an enemy in high school. If any human being were the son of the evil one, he would be it. He was proud, selfish, unimaginably cruel and inhumane. He hassled me every other day and insulted my race (I’m a Chinese Jew). I need to know: is there any reason for praying for his salvation? By his very nature I could see he’s non-elect and I also could discern that he would likely never change. Your opinions are welcome.

Those are the people who need our prayers the most.

 

[littlestsouls2]

I had an enemy in high school. If any human being were the son of the evil one, he would be it. He was proud, selfish, unimaginably cruel and inhumane. He hassled me every other day and insulted my race (I’m a Chinese Jew). I need to know: is there any reason for praying for his salvation? By his very nature I could see he’s non-elect and I also could discern that he would likely never change. Your opinions are welcome.

Bl. Egidius of Portugal once made a compact with Satan, signed with his own blood; Bl. Bartolo Longo was formerly a Satanic priest… we cannot know who will die in God’s grace and therefore be counted among the elect. We must pray confidently for ourselves, as well as for even the greatest sinners. Our Lord encouraged St. Gertrude to pray for the reprobate…

 

[Petaro]

Jesus tells us that we should forgive our enemies. This is a hard saying, but it makes better people of us regardless of our religious beliefs. Catholics do not believe in some predestined elect, but rather that Jesus came so that all would be saved.
As a Jew you believe in the same God and should pray for your enemy so that he will revert from his harassment and turn his life around. Call on the power of your living God as He does great things.

 

[TarkanAttila]

I had an enemy in high school. If any human being were the son of the evil one, he would be it. He was proud, selfish, unimaginably cruel and inhumane. He hassled me every other day and insulted my race (I’m a Chinese Jew). I need to know: is there any reason for praying for his salvation? By his very nature I could see he’s non-elect and I also could discern that he would likely never change. Your opinions are welcome.

Some hoodlums once attacked St. Gertrude and her sisters’ convent. Part of the result of their attack was the dislocating of St. Gertrude’s arm. She prayed for them. Now she was very close to Our Lord, and Our Lord said to her that her prayers for their conversion was like a balm being rubbed into the sinews of his arm, a hand delicately bringing them back together.

St. Gertrude asked Our Lord how He could call an arm these who had caused so much damage. Our Lord said this:

“I call
them so in truth, because they are members of the
body of that Church of which I glory to be the
Head. Therefore, the state of their souls causes Me
unspeakable anxiety. My Heart has an intense
desire for their conversion.”

This soul who hated you so much is a soul whom Christ wants to save. God desires all men to be saved. And none more than those who cause Him such pain.

The best thing you can do for this “reprobate”, as the Calvinists would say, is to pray that he becomes elect for salvation, and cooperates with the body he has, until now, put out of joint.

 

[Faxero]

:yup:

Yes, we can and should work for the salvation of suffering souls, including the souls who make themselves suffer by making others suffer. Christ prayed for his enemies, setting an example for the Apostles, disciples, and eventually, the gentiles, such as ourselves.

Prayer is in essence a spiritual work that enables us to produce spiritual fruits from whatever physical work we undertake, hence why prayer is beneficial to souls other than our own.

 

[Dorothy]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Batoni_sacred_heart.jpg
Some hoodlums once attacked St. Gertrude and her sisters’ convent. Part of the result of their attack was the dislocating of St. Gertrude’s arm. She prayed for them. Now she was very close to Our Lord, and Our Lord said to her that her prayers for their conversion was like a balm being rubbed into the sinews of his arm, a hand delicately bringing them back together.

St. Gertrude asked Our Lord how He could call an arm these who had caused so much damage. Our Lord said this:

This soul who hated you so much is a soul whom Christ wants to save. God desires all men to be saved. And none more than those who cause Him such pain.

The best thing you can do for this “reprobate”, as the Calvinists would say, is to pray that he becomes elect for salvation, and cooperates with the body he has, until now, put out of joint.

Beautiful! Thank you.

 

[seagal]

Matthew 5:43-46
“You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbour and hate your enemy '. But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.”

 

[ChurchSoldier]

Sorry for your difficulties. Generally speaking people who hurt others are hurting inside themselves. That’s why they hurt others. Sometimes praying that they receive in their lives what we want in our lives is a good way to heal us, and possibly them.

Good luck.

 

[MtnDwellar]

What is a non-elect?

 

[eViLpOpTaRt]

Yes!

But who are the non-elect, anyway?

 

[Faxero]

What is a non-elect?

Yes!

But who are the non-elect, anyway?

An elect would be anyone whom God has set aside for a particularly special mission, such as Noah, Moses, and Peter the Apostle.

Within the context of this thread, an elect would be someone who is connected with the eternal things. Based on this, a non-elect would be either a non-believer or a non-practicing Christian.

 

[Sarcelle]

I had an enemy in high school. If any human being were the son of the evil one, he would be it. He was proud, selfish, unimaginably cruel and inhumane. He hassled me every other day and insulted my race (I’m a Chinese Jew). I need to know: is there any reason for praying for his salvation? By his very nature I could see he’s non-elect and I also could discern that he would likely never change. Your opinions are welcome.

The best way to destroy an enemy…

Is to turn him into a friend…

Impossible you say?

Pray that God gives him the grace to repent. Who knows, with God’s grace he may even turn into one of your friends.

 

[InNomineDomini]

By his very nature I could see he’s non-elect and I also could discern that he would likely never change.

You could say that same about St. Paul at one point in his life, along with countless others.

It is not our duty to judge whether or not some individual will ultimately be saved, and we should not pretend to have knowledge that will always be above us. God very well may have ordained that this person will be given graces entirely because of the prayers of those whom he has offended. So if we set aside the notion that this individual may be “non-elect”, we’re only left with a person who is an enemy; and you should know what Christ taught with regard to loving enemies.

From Matthew 5:

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you salute only your brethren, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

 

[Beryllos]

Elect means chosen. I guess that means chosen by God for salvation. I avoid using the term because in my mind it suggests predestination. However, a quick search of the Bible for the word “elect” suggests that it is not a sure thing. For example, St. Paul writes:
Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, so that they may also obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory.

2 Timothy 2:10 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition​

So I wonder if the elect do not also elect themselves. God calls and we answer. The elect could perhaps be considered favored by God, but it is in part because they trust in Him and are faithful.

 

[ready]

Seeing our Lord desires the salvation of each one of us, you should pray for this person of which you speak. We are obligated to pray at least in a general way for our enemies, so pray for the conversion of your enemies. You don’t have to pray for this person specifically – you only are obligated to pray for your enemies in general, though it would be a matter of perfection for you to pray for enemies individually. God bless you.

 

[porthos11]

I had an enemy in high school. If any human being were the son of the evil one, he would be it. He was proud, selfish, unimaginably cruel and inhumane. He hassled me every other day and insulted my race (I’m a Chinese Jew). I need to know: is there any reason for praying for his salvation? By his very nature I could see he’s non-elect and I also could discern that he would likely never change. Your opinions are welcome.

No matter how strong the signs, piety does not ensure one is elect, and depravity does not ensure one is reprobate (although they can be taken as indicators)

A key thing to keep in mind is that the names and number of the elect and reprobate are unknown. You therefore cannot deny someone your prayers just because you “think” he’s reprobate. For all you know, the order of grace God laid out from the beginning may require that the man’s conversion could hinge on your prayers (which means, he could be elect after all).

 

[porthos11]

What is a non-elect?

Non-elect is just that, one who is not of the elect.

The elect are those predestined for heaven.

The non-elect are those destined for hell.

Of course Catholic teaching is much much more in-depth than that, and this topic has been hashed out on many many threads already. But for the purposes of this thread, a key property of the mysteries of predestination and reprobation is that we do not know whether one (or even oneself) is of the elect.

 

[porthos11]

Elect means chosen. I guess that means chosen by God for salvation. I avoid using the term because in my mind it suggests predestination. However, a quick search of the Bible for the word “elect” suggests that it is not a sure thing. For example, St. Paul writes:
Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, so that they may also obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory.

2 Timothy 2:10 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition​

So I wonder if the elect do not also elect themselves. God calls and we answer. The elect could perhaps be considered favored by God, but it is in part because they trust in Him and are faithful.

Yes, for the purposes of this thread, elect clearly means those predestined to salvation.

 

[MtnDwellar]

Non-elect is just that, one who is not of the elect.

The elect are those predestined for heaven.

The non-elect are those destined for hell.

Of course Catholic teaching is much much more in-depth than that, and this topic has been hashed out on many many threads already. But for the purposes of this thread, a key property of the mysteries of predestination and reprobation is that we do not know whether one (or even oneself) is of the elect.

So then for the purpose of this thread, the OP is asking whether or not we should pray for those who are members of a group whose members cannot be identified by others or even by themselves.

No wonder I was confused.

In that case, my answer is definitely that we should pray for those whom we cannot identify as being members of a group whose membership is not identifiable.