Should we respectfully leave the Church

[The_Bucket]

Oh so we’ll now play the culpability game? The “God understands” game? That’s pretty much presumption in my opinion.

I’m not insensitive to serious medical issues regarding pregnancy. And I will absolutely concede that my experience was luck and not divine providence because I trusted in the Lord. In my case, my wife got pregnant 4 months after an emergency c-section. Not a good idea.

We were very careful but post partum stuff is tricky. Doubly tricky when the child was in the NICU. Triply tricky given that he nearly died several times and we needed to support one each other emotionally.

The OBGYN immediately suggested abortion. Which, of course, left my wife in tears and was never an option. The high-risk OB we switched to never mentioned it. Everything ended up fine.

Again, this is not providence. This is not our receiving a blessing because we trusted in God. It was luck, pure and simple. What I am saying is that I fully appreciate the seriousness of this kind of situation. The knot in my stomach that started with my son’s birth never went away until my older daughter was safely delivered 12.5 months later. It was a nightmare.

God’s mercy is indeed infinite. He promised St. Faustina that He has oceans of it to dispense! But how can one accept mercy when one refuses to acknowledge that he has done wrong? That’s where I have to take issue with statements like the ones shelby sun made.

It’s one thing to say “we panicked and we did X, Y, Z.” Or “we were terrified and this is what we decided.” But you can’t say “neither one of us have ever regretted it or worry that we are going to hell over it” and expect to receive mercy. Not because the Lord doesn’t want to give it to you, but because you don’t want it.

 

[shelby_sun]

Oh so we’ll now play the culpability game? The “God understands” game? That’s pretty much presumption in my opinion.

I’m not insensitive to serious medical issues regarding pregnancy. And I will absolutely concede that my experience was luck and not divine providence because I trusted in the Lord. In my case, my wife got pregnant 4 months after an emergency c-section. Not a good idea.

We were very careful but post partum stuff is tricky. Doubly tricky when the child was in the NICU. Triply tricky given that he nearly died several times and we needed to support one each other emotionally.

The OBGYN immediately suggested abortion. Which, of course, left my wife in tears and was never an option. The high-risk OB we switched to never mentioned it. Everything ended up fine.

Again, this is not providence. This is not our receiving a blessing because we trusted in God. It was luck, pure and simple. What I am saying is that I fully appreciate the seriousness of this kind of situation. The knot in my stomach that started with my son’s birth never went away until my older daughter was safely delivered 12.5 months later. It was a nightmare.

God’s mercy is indeed infinite. He promised St. Faustina that He has oceans of it to dispense! But how can one accept mercy when one refuses to acknowledge that he has done wrong? That’s where I have to take issue with statements like the ones shelby sun made.

It’s one thing to say “we panicked and we did X, Y, Z.” Or “we were terrified and this is what we decided.” But you can’t say “neither one of us have ever regretted it or worry that we are going to hell over it” and expect to receive mercy. Not because the Lord doesn’t want to give it to you, but because you don’t want it.

Excuse me did you read the part about her talking to her priest? Did you read that we too spoke to our priest?

Who are you to think you know more than a 75 year old priest that joined his order and the age of 15. I have never worried because told he told me not to worry. But your judgement is noted, even if it is not Christ like. Which is another reason I would not consider what you have to say.

 

[Rau]

To the OP, please, please, please listen to your priest!!! I am not sure after speaking to your priest why you would come on this site. He is the most knowledgeable and wisest person you could listen to.

You show great respect to this priest and to the opinion he is reported to have given. Yet you utterly shun Church teaching, approved by the Bishops and the Pope, who were all once priests. So, the status of the man as a Priest is not what gives his advice credence for you is it? It must be that he agrees with you!

 

[Galbin]

Hmmm… I don’t really see my husband as having “authority over me.” We are an equal partnership. And I don’t even think he has a higher need for sexual release, as that is putting his need in a crass light. Intimacy with me is how he communicates his love and fidelity, it is where he is vulnerable and open to me, it is something he holds sacred to our relationship. Anyone can give him a hug or make him a sandwich, but only I can fulfill that part of his heart and soul that needs love, affection, approval, acceptance… That is what he “needs,” and while I as a woman can find those things in other areas to some extent - I think that for men (at least my husband), sexual intimacy is kind of IT. To take that away is not just taking away an outlet for sexual release, but taking away his way of communicating with me and showing his heart and soul to me.

He certainly hasn’t had a hissy fit or behaved poorly to me because of this. We both struggle with the answer. For him, he is very clear in what he believes and thinks. He simply believes that The Church has a rule in place that is not truly reflective of God’s love or law. He thinks it is anachronistic, enforced by old, celibate men who have to go to grandiose philisophical lengths to attempt to make a case for it. I do not necessarily agree, and I am terrified for both him, and our salvation. I am also, though, terrified for my life and terrified of leaving my children motherless.

My husband is not perfect, but he is an outstanding man, husband and father who would die for his family in a nanosecond. He is not a brute who demands daily sex, he is not threatening me, and he is not one who takes God lightly. He is extremely disciplined, industrious and deeply, deeply kind and good.

Again, this is not just about us wanting to scratch an itch whenever we please without any inconvenient consequences, or having selfish, flippant motivations.

Great post. I am female, but feel similarly about the sexual act.

 

[LongingSoul]

Originally Posted by Avocadomom
Hmmm… I don’t really see my husband as having “authority over me.” We are an equal partnership. And I don’t even think he has a higher need for sexual release, as that is putting his need in a crass light. Intimacy with me is how he communicates his love and fidelity, it is where he is vulnerable and open to me, it is something he holds sacred to our relationship. Anyone can give him a hug or make him a sandwich, but only I can fulfill that part of his heart and soul that needs love, affection, approval, acceptance… That is what he “needs,” and while I as a woman can find those things in other areas to some extent - I think that for men (at least my husband), sexual intimacy is kind of IT. To take that away is not just taking away an outlet for sexual release, but taking away his way of communicating with me and showing his heart and soul to me.

The post of mine that this is addressing was in response to the OPs report that "He has said that it would ruin sex for him to know that we were doing things in a way that was “open to life” when in fact we are not open to getting pregnant. " from post #55.

I find the OPs argument all very convoluted. She openly admitted in the first post that neither she or her husband believe in the Church teaching on contraception but that she believes they are OK with God…

“So, with those two things in mind my husband would like to get a vasectomy. I won’t lie - it sounds wonderful. However, we are both Catholic and we know it’s a sin. I have told him that I do not want him to do it, as I fear he will burn in hell for it. He says he will do anything to protect me and our marriage. He says there is fundamentally no difference between using NFP to avoid pregnancy and using a vasectomy - both are purported to have the same “failure” rate. I will be very honest with you and say that I do not truly believe that we will be punished by God for prayerfully discerning that we need to not have more pregnancies and using modern medicine to achieve it. BUT, I do think there is value in being obedient to The Church, even if The Church is wrong on this point. If I am to call myself a Catholic, I need to abide by the “rules” whether they are reasonable or not.”

If you are OK with God but fear you will burn in hell for breaking a Church rule… I question whether you really understand Catholicism and the foundations upon which the truly Catholic life is built. There needs to be some basic study into the Churchs position on contraception otherwise I do believe that it would be more honest to follow a denomination that accepts contraception and denounces Catholic teaching on that point. It is unfair to the children to raise them with that basic contempt for the faith they are in.

The OP said that her decision was based on ‘prayerful discernment’ however the sign that decision is the right one for you, is being at peace within yourself with it. It doesn’t need to then go looking left, right and centre for further validation.

No one can measure a persons culpability in an action other than the person and God. This is helped on the way by running it by your confessor or spiritual director, but being at peace and becoming ever more faithful and holy are the signs that you have made the honest, godly choice.

I remember when my aunty who had 11 children was having trouble with her womb ‘falling out’ when she lifted heavy things and was toileting… the doctors advised her to have a hysterectomy as her womb was not capable of having another child. My very holy aunty had the hysterectomy and no one batted an eyelid. When the decision is based only on truth and not just an excuse to contracept, the answer is easy and your conscience fully at peace.

You are people who fundamentally disagree with the Church teaching on contraception and I think that you need to understand that position and embrace it in order that you can truly discern in the Catholic way. Your doubts aren’t going to assuaged by trying to get faithful Catholic forum contributors to validate your choices.

Sorry to be blunt, but I think you will be much better off sorting the theology conundrum you have with contraception first and foremost.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Hello…

I’ve been here before, but started again with a new name because I would prefer to be anonymous.

I have a terrible problem that is hurting my marriage, my family life and my spiritual life. .

Likely I have a certain degree of moral derangement, but I am having difficulty with this whole scenario.

Your life may be threatened by another pregnancy, and Husband insists that you be involved in his possible decision to have a vasectomy? He’s so persuaded that would be the right thing to do that he’s willing to throw the Church over in toto for the sake of his belief, even though he’s Catholic and otherwise believes in the Church?

That makes absolutely no sense to me. I recall reading some writer about moral culture remarking that modern people “neither sin well nor repent well”. Instead, we reinvent morality for ourselves and pretend we are not sinning. And in so doing, we evade repentance. What did Jesus say about that? “Be you hot or be you cold, but be you lukewarm and I will vomit you from my mouth…” (Something like that, anyway.)

If, indeed, given the circumstances, Husband wants to rebel against a particular teaching of the Church and do something quite likely immoral, well then he needs to take it upon his soul to do it. Does he need to involve the OP in that decision and cause her anguish over leaving the Church she obviously does not want to leave? Is it right for him to do so? No, and no.

Does Husband not sin in any other way? Does he REALLY believe he doesn’t? Didn’t Jesus say “even the just man sins seven times a day”? Has he never overeaten? Has he never wasted food? Has he never engaged in some selfish indulgence despite the fact that there are people in this world who are starving? Has he never taken a moral short cut in his occupation? Has he never cut someone down verbally in a way that really hurts?

God knows us better than we know ourselves, and that’s why the Sacrament of Penance exists. Might some priest some day tell him he needs to reverse a vasectomy or stop doing something or other to reduce the likelihood of pregnancy? Maybe.
Has no one ever confessed something without being entirely certain nothing reduced or removed the moral culpability? I think most of us have.

I’m not altogether persuaded about the hardships of raising of more children. I think people have the strength for that. I truly do. But I don’t think that’s what the original post is all about.

Husband has a moral choice to make, and he needs to make it. And he needs to look God square in the face in making it, not run from Him into some church that tells him he doesn’t have to. And if his choice requires repentence, he needs to learn how to do that, and to do it well.

 

[Galbin]

As to my daughters. My middle daughter has a deletion in the 1q21 gene. This could be a major deal or no problem at all. It was a major deal early in her life. She had to be on a feeding tube and had severe sensory issues. Happy to say that she is a normal happy, smart 1st grader. But it could cause complications later in her life. Including pregnancy issues. I would never tell her to jeopardize her soul and worship her life and body over God. Never.

I am shocked you aren’t trying to avoid when you are a carrier of this gene, since it is known to cause developmental issues in most cases, along with psychiatric and neurological issues too. I am really curious as to how you and your wife can be at peace with not using NFP at this time.

 

[shelby_sun]

You show great respect to this priest and to the opinion he is reported to have given. Yet you utterly shun Church teaching, approved by the Bishops and the Pope, who were all once priests. So, the status of the man as a Priest is not what gives his advice credence for you is it? It must be that he agrees with you!

Yes I do show this priest great respect as does thousands of other people in my very large city! You seem to infer I am not telling the truth which is your problem not mine. I have NEVER claimed to be right on this site, that I know what is best and who is going to hell like others here. I do not try to change anyone’s mind or say the church should change. If you think I am lying then come out and say it, don’t hide behind manipulated writing. Does your arrogance follow Church teaching. Please let me know which one.

Don’t tell me what gives this priest credence for me! I went to one priest, ONE, not a dozen until I found one that would agree with me. Of course you must be right, right!

 

[marywarfield]

I am shocked you aren’t trying to avoid when you are a carrier of this gene, since it is known to cause developmental issues in most cases, along with psychiatric and neurological issues too. I am really curious as to how you and your wife can be at peace with not using NFP at this time.

Wow. Shocked? Really? Can you explain why?

 

[marywarfield]

Excuse me did you read the part about her talking to her priest? Did you read that we too spoke to our priest?

Who are you to think you know more than a 75 year old priest that joined his order and the age of 15. I have never worried because told he told me not to worry. But your judgement is noted, even if it is not Christ like. Which is another reason I would not consider what you have to say.

I’m curious about this and the OPs view as well.
It appears you and she KNOW what the Church teaching
is on this matter but don’t want to follow it as abstinence
is apparently too difficult.

I find it interesting that the posters are apparently
more comfortable following the advice of a priest
who directly contradicts the teachings of the Church
than in the Church’s teaching itself.
Frankly if I bumped into a priest who directly
contradicted the Church to me I’d run…

 

[LongingSoul]

Excuse me did you read the part about her talking to her priest? Did you read that we too spoke to our priest?

Who are you to think you know more than a 75 year old priest that joined his order and the age of 15. I have never worried because told he told me not to worry. But your judgement is noted, even if it is not Christ like. Which is another reason I would not consider what you have to say.

Unless the Priest is a mystic like Padre Pio, he can only go on the information imparted to him by a person. His advice would depend on the complete honesty of the person. Even the absolution of a confession is deemed invalid if a person has withheld a vital piece of information and sadly the person has incurred a further sin of sacrilege unto themselves.

I’m not saying that you or the OP did this… just saying that a Priests advice is not like ‘magic’. It is going to depend very much on the full disclosure of the penitant or advisee for it to be valid.

If the OP did openly advise the Priest that neither she or her husband believe in the Church teaching on contraception upfront, it seems unlikely that the Priest could give an unqualified go ahead to contracepting with Church sanction without any further direction.

 

[shelby_sun]

Unless the Priest is a mystic like Padre Pio, he can only go on the information imparted to him by a person. His advice would depend on the complete honesty of the person. Even the absolution of a confession is deemed invalid if a person has withheld a vital piece of information and sadly the person has incurred a further sin of sacrilege unto themselves.

I’m not saying that you or the OP did this… just saying that a Priests advice is not like ‘magic’. It is going to depend very much on the full disclosure of the penitant or advisee for it to be valid.

If the OP did openly advise the Priest that neither she or her husband believe in the Church teaching on contraception upfront, it seems unlikely that the Priest could give an unqualified go ahead to contracepting with Church sanction without any further direction.

Please do not restate things so inaccurately. It is disrespectful and wrong! Neither one of us said the priest just “gave the go ahead” to get sterilized.Mine said you must look to your conscious and if you truly believe you are not sinning you can follow you conscious.

Yes, you are trying to believe we left out information or were not full coming with what we said. I think God will have more issues with you than me.

Every time I read such comments I believe I am in the wrong church. Luckily I have better priests around me than most of you could hope to know. Not ones I sought out, but ones God brought into my life.

You can think whatever you like, I am ready to face God and will trust whatever fate He has for me.

 

[LongingSoul]

Please do not restate things so inaccurately. It is disrespectful and wrong! Neither one of us said the priest just “gave the go ahead” to get sterilized.

I’m sorry if there was a misinterpretation. I was only going by the information given.

The OP has intially said…‘our priest has counseled us that it would be acceptable to discern a vasectomy.’ and in your reply to the OP you said… ‘I was in a similar situation to yours and I too spoke to my priest who said something pretty much like yours did’.

 

[Mark121359]

Please do not restate things so inaccurately. It is disrespectful and wrong! Neither one of us said the priest just “gave the go ahead” to get sterilized.Mine said you must look to your conscious and if you truly believe you are not sinning you can follow you conscious.

Let me put it to you this way. If a priest said to me* “look to your conscious and if you truly believe you are not sinning you can follow your conscious,”* and it was something that I clearly knew was contrary to Church teachings…I’d be looking to find another parish in a New York second! If you think there are not priests out there, who wholeheartedly hold beliefs that are absolutely contrary to what the Catholic Church teaches, and then advise people with these flawed beliefs, then you’re gravely mistaken!

---

Peace, Mark***

 

[Rau]

Yes I do show this priest great respect as does thousands of other people in my very large city! You seem to infer I am not telling the truth which is your problem not mine. I have NEVER claimed to be right on this site, that I know what is best and who is going to hell like others here. I do not try to change anyone’s mind or say the church should change. If you think I am lying then come out and say it, don’t hide behind manipulated writing. Does your arrogance follow Church teaching. Please let me know which one.

Don’t tell me what gives this priest credence for me! I went to one priest, ONE, not a dozen until I found one that would agree with me. Of course you must be right, right!

I’m implying nothing. From where comes the suggestion about lying and arrogance and manipulated writing?

My point is simple - you appeal to the OP to see the wisdom of her priest, and remark how he is the wisest source of counsel, how he has been a Priest for 50 years and so is highly qualified, etc, etc. But the fact that you reject the Church’s teaching (which is the result of far more Priestly experience and consideration) reveals your argument as a sham. You support the Priest’s position not out of respect for his wisdom as a Priest, but simply because it aligns with your opinion.

Would you speak so highly of the OP’s priest, and argue that his wisdom should be accepted given his 50 years’s experience etc., had he counselled in favour of NFP?

 

[shelby_sun]

Let me put it to you this way. If a priest said to me* “look to your conscious and if you truly believe you are not sinning you can follow your conscious,”* and it was something that I clearly knew was contrary to Church teachings…I’d be looking to find another parish in a New York second! If you think there are not priests out there, who wholeheartedly hold beliefs that are absolutely contrary to what the Catholic Church teaches, and then advise people with these flawed beliefs, then you’re gravely mistaken!

---

Peace, Mark***

How arrogant of you to think you know more than a long time priest. If i were you I would think that i got something wrong or misunderstood something in the teachings of the Church, but no you must know best. Are you ready to truly face God with that? Good luck. Your sound like one of those people that are sure you know it all .hopefully your right;however the Church is NOT God… Judge me all you want id that is what you think we get you saved, which is all you seem to care about.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I am shocked you aren’t trying to avoid when you are a carrier of this gene, since it is known to cause developmental issues in most cases, along with psychiatric and neurological issues too. I am really curious as to how you and your wife can be at peace with not using NFP at this time.

I find your post rather odd. But I will try to explain.

The 1q21 deletion is a relatively new find in the genetic world. It is also extremely rare.

rarechromo.org/information/Chromosome%20%201/1q21.1%20Microdeletions%20FTNP.pdf

My wife and I are both scientists. My wife is actually a plant geneticist. So this reads pretty easy for us. Wiki has a more “lay” focused article. I can explain in depth if you wish.

But the long and short of it is that the manifestation of this deletion is variable. From no outwardly noticeable signs to some signs, to heavy signs. During the time my daughter was failure to thrive we had so many fears that it was “turner syndrome” or a variation of down syndrome or any number of scary diseases. As she got better we still searched for answers. We found it by having a full genetic makeup done and then my wife and I being tested to see if it was a De Novo case or genetic in nature. As you can see, I had the deletion and had no real signs. Maybe a little smallness when I was young. Now I am a beast of a man.

As our daughter went to therapy and got her GI issues under control she started to grow more and more. While she is still probably on track to be the perfect “gymnast” she is 100 percent normal. You could not tell her apart from any other 7 year old.

Now of course when we had 3 year old and a 2 year old on the tube we discussed the genetic component. We had many many nights in front of the Blessed Sacrament.

But the reality of prayerfully discerning to be open to life. ALL life. Has produced my other two children who probably do not have the deletion. (Though we have not tested them as there is no need to.) The deletion is so variant that it really is not predictable as to how or even if it will manifest itself. Adding to that the idea that 10 years ago this was not even known about and it just seemed silly to act as if it was such a HORRIBLE thing to have these sweet children.

When I see comment such as yours I wonder not how we made peace with it, but how the world makes peace with it’s throwaway mentality about life. Perhaps my son born after my second daughter will grow up to be a priest. Perhaps my daughter born after my second daughter will be a wonderful mother, either to her children or to some nuns. Perhaps my next child will be a senator? I really don’t know. But here is what I do know. That my daughter with this deletion is the closest thing to a saint I have ever seen. From an early age she has had incredible holiness. Honestly I have never seen anything like it. Currently she has a deep connection with St Kateri Tekawitha, who had GI issues as well. In addition to the little bit of clumsiness my daughter has (Tekawitha means “she who bumps into things”)

So when I look around my house. As i survey the damage of the evening I think how blessed I am that there are 4 little children snug in their beds, waiting to wake up and experience this world, this day, and find out what the Will of God has in store for us tomorrow. I look forward to (God willing) more children who can add to this world and (with God’s Will) add to the next.

What i am curious about is how we live in a world that takes the next newest genetic deletion or intolerance, or disease and proclaims life to be regrettable, to be something not to strive for, to be something regarded. And on this day after JPII was Sainted. And how he taught us about the dignity of every human not only through things like Theology of the Body but also through living out the last years of his pontificate showing us the less than perfect, the suffering, and the sick but yet the world still cannot seem to hear him echo Jesus.

But most of all, how can you be at peace saying such a thing to a person about their children?

NFP is the exception. Not the norm. It CAN be used for serious reasons. And I am told all the time that it is to each couple to decide what makes those reasons serious enough. So you presume more than the Church.

Not only that but your apparent tone would seem to indicate that many people should not breed. The least of which would be the poor and the persecuted. I am glad our Church does not agree.

 

[Rau]

Mine [Priest] said you must look to your [conscience] and if you truly believe you are not sinning you can follow your [conscience]

I assume we can take as agreed that the Church has a [God-given] teaching role, and on this basis has written its teaching down primarily in the Catechism.

I can understand a Priest might take the approach of explaining Church teaching, helping you to understand the teachings pertinent to your circumstances, ask you to ponder it, and then leaving the person to decide. This seems to be the case you describe.

Certainly no Priest could properly counsel a course of action directly at odds with Church teaching. To do so is simply to substitute his thoughts in place of Church teaching. He would be failing as a Catholic Priest if he did so.

 

[marywarfield]

How arrogant of you to think you know more than a long time priest. If i were you I would think that i got something wrong or misunderstood something in the teachings of the Church, but no you must know best. Are you ready to truly face God with that? Good luck. Your sound like one of those people that are sure you know it all .hopefully your right;however the Church is NOT God… Judge me all you want id that is what you think we get you saved, which is all you seem to care about.

Sorry but the others ARE correct. No priest of good
standing should counsel someone to a course of
action directly contrary to Church teaching. But perhaps
he is not. Perhaps the priest is asking you to examine
your conscience to determine why YOU are
contrary to Church teaching.

It seems a bit absurd for you to read out Marks opinion
because you believe he is arrogant for questioning
an experienced 75 year old priest’s opinion yet can’t see your
own arrogance in questioning two thousand years of
experience in Church teaching.
How does that work?

 

[bitterhope]

I find your post rather odd. But I will try to explain.

The 1q21 deletion is a relatively new find in the genetic world. It is also extremely rare.

rarechromo.org/information/Chromosome%20%201/1q21.1%20Microdeletions%20FTNP.pdf

My wife and I are both scientists. My wife is actually a plant geneticist. So this reads pretty easy for us. Wiki has a more “lay” focused article. I can explain in depth if you wish.

But the long and short of it is that the manifestation of this deletion is variable. From no outwardly noticeable signs to some signs, to heavy signs. During the time my daughter was failure to thrive we had so many fears that it was “turner syndrome” or a variation of down syndrome or any number of scary diseases. As she got better we still searched for answers. We found it by having a full genetic makeup done and then my wife and I being tested to see if it was a De Novo case or genetic in nature. As you can see, I had the deletion and had no real signs. Maybe a little smallness when I was young. Now I am a beast of a man.

As our daughter went to therapy and got her GI issues under control she started to grow more and more. While she is still probably on track to be the perfect “gymnast” she is 100 percent normal. You could not tell her apart from any other 7 year old.

Now of course when we had 3 year old and a 2 year old on the tube we discussed the genetic component. We had many many nights in front of the Blessed Sacrament.

But the reality of prayerfully discerning to be open to life. ALL life. Has produced my other two children who probably do not have the deletion. (Though we have not tested them as there is no need to.) The deletion is so variant that it really is not predictable as to how or even if it will manifest itself. Adding to that the idea that 10 years ago this was not even known about and it just seemed silly to act as if it was such a HORRIBLE thing to have these sweet children.

When I see comment such as yours I wonder not how we made peace with it, but how the world makes peace with it’s throwaway mentality about life. Perhaps my son born after my second daughter will grow up to be a priest. Perhaps my daughter born after my second daughter will be a wonderful mother, either to her children or to some nuns. Perhaps my next child will be a senator? I really don’t know. But here is what I do know. That my daughter with this deletion is the closest thing to a saint I have ever seen. From an early age she has had incredible holiness. Honestly I have never seen anything like it. Currently she has a deep connection with St Kateri Tekawitha, who had GI issues as well. In addition to the little bit of clumsiness my daughter has (Tekawitha means “she who bumps into things”)

So when I look around my house. As i survey the damage of the evening I think how blessed I am that there are 4 little children snug in their beds, waiting to wake up and experience this world, this day, and find out what the Will of God has in store for us tomorrow. I look forward to (God willing) more children who can add to this world and (with God’s Will) add to the next.

What i am curious about is how we live in a world that takes the next newest genetic deletion or intolerance, or disease and proclaims life to be regrettable, to be something not to strive for, to be something regarded. And on this day after JPII was Sainted. And how he taught us about the dignity of every human not only through things like Theology of the Body but also through living out the last years of his pontificate showing us the less than perfect, the suffering, and the sick but yet the world still cannot seem to hear him echo Jesus.

But most of all, how can you be at peace saying such a thing to a person about their children?

NFP is the exception. Not the norm. It CAN be used for serious reasons. And I am told all the time that it is to each couple to decide what makes those reasons serious enough. So you presume more than the Church.

Not only that but your apparent tone would seem to indicate that many people should not breed. The least of which would be the poor and the persecuted. I am glad our Church does not agree.

Very beautiful. Thank you for writing this. I had just about given up on finding truly pro life people on this site. You are a shining light in this world of ours.

It is easy to be pro life when everything is sun shine and butterflies. It’s also not so hard to refuse an abortion because most Catholics realize that it is murder. It’s so much harder to willingly accept children in whatever way God chooses to give them. So far all my kids are “normal,” but what does that really mean? I have found my best friend’s son to be a true saint on earth, one that can bring joy to the darkest days. He is the holiest little guy I have ever met and so loving! He was born cystic fibrosis. She and her husband have continued accepting children as God sends them. So far they have four and only one has CF. No matter how long a soul is here on earth, the world is a better place because they were here.