Should we take the Mortal Sin dogma seriously?

[jnewaz]

I read your post. Well written and well worded especially when I consider your age. I looked at you profile and saw you are quite young.

I agree with your post. I do have reservations though about the afforded grace to have a last chance (in a sense) to repent of sins at the last moment of death. Another poster NeedsImprovement, eludes to the same principle. I need to ask myself if this is a component of the “dance” I refer to. Is this principle of last moment repentance a Catholic teaching or is it a fabricated way to dance around the issue of dying in a state of mortal sin.

I am in a pretty bad state of mind because of some personnal issues I am dealing with. I regret my earlier post because I do not desire to dash anyones hope.

I’ll leave this, at that.

If you’re leaving, I won’t stop you. I see your reservations and they make sense. However, the gospel authors did not write in the repentant criminal to the side of Christ’s cross for nothing. It isnt one last dramatic act they could fit in before the play closes. It has theological significance.

We are not God, so we do not understand it completely. But I do believe that if Christ saved a robber on the cross, and if Christ saved the dead of the Old Testament, and if Christ saved us born thousands of years later, then I believe Christ can save those who are unexpectedly snatched by the hands of death.

Not only “can” he do it, but I believe that it would be in line with his past performance. No?

 

[Mijoy2]

If you’re leaving, I won’t stop you. I see your reservations and they make sense. However, the gospel authors did not write in the repentant criminal to the side of Christ’s cross for nothing. It isnt one last dramatic act they could fit in before the play closes. It has theological significance.

We are not God, so we do not understand it completely. But I do believe that if Christ saved a robber on the cross, and if Christ saved the dead of the Old Testament, and if Christ saved us born thousands of years later, then I believe Christ can save those who are unexpectedly snatched by the hands of death.

Not only “can” he do it, but I believe that it would be in line with his past performance. No?

All good points. Thank you.

 

[JRKH]

Sapphire,
There is already a lot of really good answers here but I just can’t resist tossing in my 2 cents worth…

Hi guys.

From my understanding of the Church’s teachings, all who die in the state of mortal sin are not saved and they will spend an eternity in Hell, right?

Right

Now, we know that acts such as lying (even casually) or missing Sunday obligations are considered “mortal sins”.

Assuming the meet the three requirements for a sin to be mortal…Yes.
The act must be known to be sinful, it must be done with full consent, and it must be grave matter.

My point is, it is easy to commit a mortal sin and we are not always conscious to repent of it since most of the time these acts are often overlooked and dismissed.

this is where we disagree…Committing a mortal sin must, by definition, be done consciously and with full knowledge. One cannot oops their way into mortal sin.

I can’t imagine someone who’s lived a life worshiping God, suddenly missing a Sunday mass to hang around with friends, die before confessing his sins, and end up in hell.
Same with someone who lies etc.

The problem here is a common one. You are taking a view that is very legalistic and even a bit Pharisitic. The Pharisees watched every tit and taddle of the law and condemned people without looking at the core of the Law which is Love.
In your above scenario, the person would not go to hell for missing mass, but for rejecting God and God’s offer of salvation.
I’ll explain a bit more below.

Do you think that I have interpreted the Teaching wrongly? Maybe ‘to die in the state of mortal sin’ is constituted by something more persistent and severe (like committing many mortal sins out of pure rebellion towards God), which then makes one only a “Catholic” by name and therefore he cannot be saved?

I know God can choose to save, and there are exceptions…But this doctrine just sounds a bit difficult for me to swallow.

Any thoughts?

You are interpreting the teaching wrongly, but do not fret for many of us do. It took me some time and prayer and study before I was able to sort through this and understand what the Spirit is trying to tell us.

For a sin to separate you from God, you have to KNOW it is a serious sin and you have to CHOOSE to do it anyway.
Now consider this for a moment…In order for one to deliberately choose to do something they know is a serious sin against the one they profess to Love above all else requires that they reject that Love of God in favor of love of self.
So the mortality of a sin springs from this rejection of God and of God’s salvific plan.

Hope this helps

Peace
James

 

[thistle]

We are taught faith and reason are not contradictory. This is extremely unreasonable.
I do not necassarily question your doctrine though. However it does make me think the entire thing just may be horse manure. In the atheist vs theist debate, this issue is a whopping 1 point for the athiest.

It is not my doctrine. It is the doctrine of the Church which was given authority by Christ in matters of faith and morals. That means in such matters the teachings of the Church are fully supported by Christ.

 

[PJM]

Hi guys.

From my understanding of the Church’s teachings, all who die in the state of mortal sin are not saved and they will spend an eternity in Hell, right?
Now, we know that acts such as lying (even casually) or missing Sunday obligations are considered “mortal sins”.

My point is, it is easy to commit a mortal sin and we are not always conscious to repent of it since most of the time these acts are often overlooked and dismissed.

I can’t imagine someone who’s lived a life worshipping God, suddenly missing a Sunday mass to hang around with friends, die before confessing his sins, and end up in hell.
Same with someone who lies etc.

Do you think that I have interpreted the Teaching wrongly? Maybe ‘to die in the state of mortal sin’ is constituted by something more persistent and severe (like committing many mortal sins out of pure rebellion towards God), which then makes one only a “Catholic” by name and therefore he cannot be saved?

I know God can choose to save, and there are exceptions…But this doctrine just sounds abit difficult for me to swallow.

Any thoughts?

Thats Satan’s sales pitch too

If you believe the Bible is the Inspired Word of God: LOOK, Learn and PRAY, Friend, PRAY…

“ Matt.19: 17 “And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.”

** 1John.1 Verses 8 to 10:** "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

** 1John.5 Verses 16 to 17**"If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. ** There is sin which is mortal**; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, ** but there is sin which is not mortal. **

** John.20 Verses 20 to 23**]" When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. ** Jesus said to them ** again, “Peace be with you. ** As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” ** And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

Exo. 20: And God spoke all these words, saying, "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. "You shall have no other gods before me.”
"You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; “Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day”
"You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain. “
4. "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land which the LORD your God gives you.
5. "You shall not kill. “
6. "You shall not commit adultery”.
7. "You shall not steal”.
"You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.”
9. “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; or property”
10.“you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his manservant, or his maidservant, or his ox, or his ***, or anything that is your neighbors.”

COMANDMENTS friend are NOT mere suggestions seeking your approval. THEY ARE THE MINIMUM OF WHAT GOD DEMANDS FORM US.

WE; YOU AND ME CHOOSE WHERE WE WILL SPEND ETERNITY. GOD APPROVES OUR FREEWILL CHOICES.

**Matt.7: 13-14 ** "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few

So who ARE YOU going to believe?

** 2nd. Tim. 3:16** All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work

**John.8: 44 **“You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.”

Don’t buy the BIG LIE that Satan does not exist.

God GAVE YOU a mind, intellect and FREEWILL so that YOUR COULD DECIDE your own fate.

Isa.43 Verses 7 and 21 " every one who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory, whom I formed and made." …"the people whom I formed for myself that they might declare my praise.

It’s up to you, make the RIGHT choice:thumbsup:

IF YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT SIN SEND ME A PM
God Bless you,
Pat

 

[Jerry-Jet]

Thistle is 100% correct.

Dying in a state of mortal sin = Hell!

If the whole world knew this and believed it to be true–how many conversions would there be?

Mortal sin is a hard truth that someone needs to teach.

 

[Dragonslayer]

Some very good answers that I could not improve on. But, I would answer the OP’s question with another question. “Why take the risk?”

 

[Crumpy]

Was my response (post #2) harsh?

As a matter of fact, I haven’t been to sunday Mass for maybe over two years. I’ve been taking care of my mother for 11 years and she has been falling. She has other very serious health conditions, too.

I’ve heard “serious reason … for missing Mass” as including caring for a sick child.

Even if I confess my sins to a priest in confession, I still have to prostrate myself before God for not worshipping Him as I ought to.

Harsh? I’m old enough, had enough examples in my life to know not to judge others. I’m surely not judging anyone.

There’s a lot of things I like about Judaism. One is their positive attitude towards God’s commandments. (see Psalm 119)

Ps 119:14 I rejoice over the way of Your decrees as over all riches.

Pa 119:32 I eagerly pursue Your commandments, for You broaden my understanding

119:105 Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path.

(Jewish Publication Society translation)

Elsewhere in the Psalms

I was glad when they said to me, we shall go up to the house of the LORD.

 

[Little_One0307]

Hi,

Thistle Good for you. Thistle is right. There is no watering down this dogma.

Here’s what the Catechism of the Catholic Church has to say about this. Emphasis as always are mine.

paragraph 1033

We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: “He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.” Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren. **To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. **This state of definitive self- exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called “hell.”

pragraph 1034

Jesus often speaks of “Gehenna” of “the unquenchable fire” reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost. Jesus solemnly proclaims that he “will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,” and that he will pronounce the condemnation: “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!”

paragraph 1035

The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

paragraph 1036

The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. They are at the same time an urgent call to conversion: “Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.”

Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed, we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where “men will weep and gnash their teeth.”

paragraph 1037

God predestines no one to go to hell; for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want “any to perish, but all to come to repentance”:

Father, accept this offering
from your whole family.
Grant us your peace in this life,
save us from final damnation,
and count us among those you have chosen.

---

God bless.

 

[Little_One0307]

Hi,

Another source. From Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, by Dr. Ludwig Ott.

The souls of those who die in the condition of personl grievous sin enter Hell. [DE FIDE]

---

The Church is very clear on what happens if one dies in a state of mortal sin. However never does the Church say who is in hell or not, this judgement is reserved to God alone.

But the Church constantly urges repentence and going to Confession and being in a state of grace.

Hell is a horrible reality. To be separated from the the one who created us to have Union with Him forever, is a reality that is terrifying to contemplate. Do whatever it takes to stay in a state of grace.

God bless.

 

[CaptCrunch73]

The phrase “die in the state of mortal sin” has several preconditions:

1. The act committed was grave, done with deliberate intent and full knowledge
2. The person in question is unrepentant of it when they die

Remember, no one in Hell is there because of unfortunate circumstance outside of their control. They freely chose to separate themselves from God.

I’d like to reemphasize these points, from the CCC, there are three conditions that must be met for a sin to be mortal.

Just as a side note, sounds like you may be going through a rough time, don’t give up. If you do choose to give up and you change your mind, everybody will be here to welcome you back!

IV. THE GRAVITY OF SIN: MORTAL AND VENIAL SIN

1854 Sins are rightly evaluated according to their gravity. The distinction between mortal and venial sin, already evident in Scripture,129 became part of the tradition of the Church. It is corroborated by human experience.

1855 Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God’s law; it turns man away from God, who is his ultimate end and his beatitude, by preferring an inferior good to him.

Venial sin allows charity to subsist, even though it offends and wounds it.

1856 Mortal sin, by attacking the vital principle within us - that is, charity - necessitates a new initiative of God’s mercy and a conversion of heart which is normally accomplished within the setting of the sacrament of reconciliation:

When the will sets itself upon something that is of its nature incompatible with the charity that orients man toward his ultimate end, then the sin is mortal by its very object . . . whether it contradicts the love of God, such as blasphemy or perjury, or the love of neighbor, such as homicide or adultery. . . . But when the sinner's will is set upon something that of its nature involves a disorder, but is not opposed to the love of God and neighbor, such as thoughtless chatter or immoderate laughter and the like, such sins are venial.130

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."131

1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.

1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart133 do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.

1860 Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.

1861 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God’s forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ’s kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.

1862 One commits venial sin when, in a less serious matter, he does not observe the standard prescribed by the moral law, or when he disobeys the moral law in a grave matter, but without full knowledge or without complete consent.

1863 Venial sin weakens charity; it manifests a disordered affection for created goods; it impedes the soul’s progress in the exercise of the virtues and the practice of the moral good; it merits temporal punishment. Deliberate and unrepented venial sin disposes us little by little to commit mortal sin. However venial sin does not break the covenant with God. With God’s grace it is humanly reparable. "Venial sin does not deprive the sinner of sanctifying grace, friendship with God, charity, and consequently eternal happiness."134

While he is in the flesh, man cannot help but have at least some light sins. But do not despise these sins which we call "light": if you take them for light when you weigh them, tremble when you count them. A number of light objects makes a great mass; a number of drops fills a river; a number of grains makes a heap. What then is our hope? Above all, confession.135

1864 "Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven."136 There are no limits to the mercy of God, but anyone who deliberately refuses to accept his mercy by repenting, rejects the forgiveness of his sins and the salvation offered by the Holy Spirit.137 Such hardness of heart can lead to final impenitence and eternal loss.

 

[Carolus_Martell]

Don’t gamble your eternal afterlife away on feelings of unfairness.

Matthew clearly relates Jesus’ command to Peter “You are Peter and upon this rock I will build My Church; whatever you hold bound on earth will be held bound in heaven…”

It’s what they say that goes, because they love you and want you to go to heaven.

 

[NeedImprovement]

Some comments relating to the following two quotes below are posted directly afterwards:

Yes I can expand on this. Take Thistles dogmatic stance on this to its logical conclusion.

I obvioulsy cannot speak for you but I would venture a guess that your life relationships (family friends aquantinces and the like) are much like mine (and hence everyone elses), We as a people are not all that different. Now consider all these people one at a time and draw a conclusion of the ratio of people in heaven to hell.

How many people fit a standard such as the one Thistle professes? Virtually all non-catholics would be damned. Then virtually all Catholics. Even amongst the Catholics I know, I know only a relatively few who attend Mass regularly without exception. Add some of other favorite mortal sins in the mix, self-pleasure, contraception…many many more, then I think it is safe to conclude heaven is a very empty place and hell is more crowded then Time Square at midnight New Years Day.

Any other take on this is simply a dance around the reality of Thistles strong stand. Unless of course Thistle’s (and by the way I am only using Thistle’s stance as an example, there are many many people in these forums who agree with him) is nothng more than a dance around this proposed reality.

It simply cannot be both ways. Either what Thistle (and those who agree with him) says is true and nearly everone goes to hell, of there is a great deal wrong with this interpretation. I am not attempting to debate this dogmatic stance. I am simply stating the reality that if it is true, there is no joy on our fath indeed. Nothing but reason for despair.

It can’t be both.

I read your post. Well written and well worded especially when I consider your age. I looked at you profile and saw you are quite young.

I agree with your post. I do have reservations though about the afforded grace to have a last chance (in a sense) to repent of sins at the last moment of death. Another poster NeedsImprovement, eludes to the same principle. I need to ask myself if this is a component of the “dance” I refer to. Is this principle of last moment repentance a Catholic teaching or is it a fabricated way to dance around the issue of dying in a state of mortal sin.

I am in a pretty bad state of mind because of some personnal issues I am dealing with. I regret my earlier post because I do not desire to dash anyones hope.

I’ll leave this, at that.

 

[NeedImprovement]

Thistle never said “nearly everyone goes to Hell” only Mijoy2’s post did . What has been described as bringing what the Holy Catholic Church holds and teaches to its “logical conclusion” is a misinterpretation … one which is easy to make and is still too prevalent - even among Catholics. Personal sin being such a sensitive subject , there is this tendency to jump to our own defense, any time we see ourselves implicated . As delicate as the area of personal sin is , it is a hinge-pin for our salvation . Admission of our sins and their gravity has to always be part of the first step in repentance.

Saint Augustine considered “sin” and “man” this way -

Man and sinner are, so to speak, two realities: when you hear “man” - this is what God has made; when you hear “sinner” - this is what man himself has made.

Augustine

Although I can’t agree totally with the assessment below, from the perspectives of justice and logic alone , this is one of several plausible conclusions :

… Virtually all non-catholics would be damned. Then virtually all Catholics. Even amongst the Catholics I know, I know only a relatively few who attend Mass regularly without exception. Add some of other favorite mortal sins in the mix, self-pleasure, contraception…many many more, then I think it is safe to conclude heaven is a very empty place and hell is more crowded then Time Square at midnight New Years Day.
…

However (Mijoy2 I hope you’re reading) , we always have to have a firm grip on both ends of the rope – both on God’s justice and on His Divine Mercy.

While the logic in God’s justice is quite plain to see , His Mercy is so great, that it extends inconceivably beyond defying even that which we know as logic.

Aquinas says that God’s Mercy does not deny justice , it presupposes it. There is no “dance” here Mijoy2 – only straight steps.

More on God’s Mercy … (continued)

 

[NeedImprovement]

(…continuation)

Jnewaz cites the case of St. Dismas – the good thief , who, by his own logical admission states [Luke 23:41 ] : “And indeed, we have been condemned justly, for the sentence we received corresponds to our crimes …”

But Christ’s Merciful response , ““Amen, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise” , supersedes the logic .

Bishop Sheen used to say about St. Dismas : “ May we say that the good thief died a thief … because he stole Heaven ?”

Jnewaz concludes (quite logically -)

…
We are not God, so we do not understand it completely. But I do believe that if Christ saved a robber on the cross, and if Christ saved the dead of the Old Testament, and if Christ saved us born thousands of years later, then I believe Christ can save those who are unexpectedly snatched by the hands of death.

Not only “can” he do it, but I believe that it would be in line with his past performance. No?

I propose we go one step further and consider the case, not of someone who was unexpectedly snatched by the hands of death , but rather of someone who deliberately died by their own hand:

The Curé of Ars, St. John Vianney ,through his special charism , " told the widow of a suicide that, between the time her husband jumped from the bridge and his body hit the water, he had made an act of contrition and she would see him in heaven."

If we wish to get the gist of God’s Mercy , the first thing we need to admit is that we won’t ever fully understand it - it’s too immense. As our Blessed Lord Himself told Saint Faustina :

" Let no soul fear to draw near to Me, even though its sins be as scarlet. My Mercy is so great that no mind, be it of man or of angel, will be able to fathom it throughout all eternity. "

What might also be of assistance , is to differentiate ; to confirm , that “a soul dying in a state of mortal sin” is not necessarily the same thing as a “soul who sins right up until the last moment of their earthly life .”

As stated earlier, “repentant” is the operative word

Several more quotes from the Catechism of the Catholic Church which are more central to God’s Mercy :

**979 **
In this battle against our inclination towards evil, who could be brave and watchful enough to escape every wound of sin? "If the Church has the power to forgive sins, then Baptism cannot be her only means of using the keys of the Kingdom of heaven received from Jesus Christ. The Church must be able to forgive all penitents their offenses, even if they should sin until the last moment of their lives.

982
There is no offense, however serious, that the Church cannot forgive. "There is no one, however wicked and guilty, who may not confidently hope for forgiveness, provided his repentance is honest. Christ who died for all men desires that in his Church the gates of forgiveness should always be open to anyone who turns away from sin.

 

[wynnejj]

Hell is eternal. To be excluded from communion with God for all eternity is to experience Hell. Is torture for all eternity the experience of Hell? Or, does the soul of the person in Hell consume itself until it is a charred memory for all eternity in Hell? What is Catholic dogma on this point?

 

[Jerry-Jet]

Torture lasts forever in Hell.

Jesus said “the fire is not quenched” and “there is wailing and knashing of teeth”.

 

[jnewaz]

(…continuation)

Jnewaz cites the case of St. Dismas – the good thief , who, by his own logical admission states [Luke 23:41 ] : “And indeed, we have been condemned justly, for the sentence we received corresponds to our crimes …”

But Christ’s Merciful response , ““Amen, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise” , supersedes the logic .

Bishop Sheen used to say about St. Dismas : “ May we say that the good thief died a thief … because he stole Heaven ?”

Jnewaz concludes (quite logically -)

I propose we go one step further and consider the case, not of someone who was unexpectedly snatched by the hands of death , but rather of someone who deliberately died by their own hand:

The Curé of Ars, St. John Vianney ,through his special charism , " told the widow of a suicide that, between the time her husband jumped from the bridge and his body hit the water, he had made an act of contrition and she would see him in heaven."

If we wish to get the gist of God’s Mercy , the first thing we need to admit is that we won’t ever fully understand it - it’s too immense. As our Blessed Lord Himself told Saint Faustina :

" Let no soul fear to draw near to Me, even though its sins be as scarlet. My Mercy is so great that no mind, be it of man or of angel, will be able to fathom it throughout all eternity. "

What might also be of assistance , is to differentiate ; to confirm , that “a soul dying in a state of mortal sin” is not necessarily the same thing as a “soul who sins right up until the last moment of their earthly life .”

As stated earlier, “repentant” is the operative word

Several more quotes from the Catechism of the Catholic Church which are more central to God’s Mercy :

**979 **
In this battle against our inclination towards evil, who could be brave and watchful enough to escape every wound of sin? "If the Church has the power to forgive sins, then Baptism cannot be her only means of using the keys of the Kingdom of heaven received from Jesus Christ. The Church must be able to forgive all penitents their offenses, even if they should sin until the last moment of their lives.

982
There is no offense, however serious, that the Church cannot forgive. "There is no one, however wicked and guilty, who may not confidently hope for forgiveness, provided his repentance is honest. Christ who died for all men desires that in his Church the gates of forgiveness should always be open to anyone who turns away from sin.

I’m glad my conclusion was quite logical!

Indeed, I love being Catholic. As we have such a great depth of tradition to rely on and draw from. The idea of St. Dismas, Augustine, the Church Fathers, the Cathechism: all Catholic treasures that mainstream Christianity is really missing out on.

 

[The_Reginator]

This thread has made for an interesting and informative read. It’s always good for us to discuss any teaching or dogma that we do not understand or that simply doesn’t make sense to us at the present time.

I’d like to ad three things ‘to chew on’:
Re heaven or hell: It seems that many of the faithful are following the thoughts of those outside the Church. How often do we hear expressions of confidence that a loved one is in heaven right after death? C’mon, how many of us are perfect at the moment of death?
In the gospels we are often told how the gate to heaven is narrow but the road to hell is wide. I’ve always had the impression that the majority of us choose hell over heaven. Just look at the number who will not attend Mass, or even if they do they have no problem in using contraception, for example. (Or priests and bishops who do not instruct the flock as to infallible Church doctrine on this matter.)
It has been suggested (by Archbishop Fulton Sheen perhaps??) that hell exists because of God’s mercy. Those souls that simply cannot tolerate spending eternity gazing at God’s glory have their own place to go.
I believe I read this on CAF somewhere:
“For God there is an eternity between the bridge and the water.”