Should women be ordained?

[patg]

puzzleannie:

therefore women cannot be ordained, it is an impossibility.

Wow, and I thought all things were possible for God…

 

[Fashina86]

ABSOLUTELY NO… The Church has no say in this matter. Christ appointed men to be his Apostles, otherwise Mary would have been one… This would be the downfall of the Church

God Bless–JMJ
Laura

 

[Fogny]

Catholic2003:

Ordinatio Sacerdotalis only applies to priestly ordination. The matter of females being ordained to the permanent diaconate has not been definitively settled by the magisterium. (In fact, the Canon Law Society of America has called for the U.S. bishops to apply to the Vatican for a dispensation from the canon law which currently prohibits females from such ordination.)

the making of a revolt. Go ahead US Bishops, the SSPX would be overwhelmed.

Just a observation not a prediction, btw I attend a Indult TLM but if this happens my drive to mass will take 30 minutes longer.

Fogny

 

[Swiss_Guard]

patg:

But Christ chose Jews, which shows how illogical the “Christ chose men” argument is.

Christ could choose either Jews or Gentiles. Since Christ started the Catholic Church, there were no Catholics before Him.

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Christ said He is the fulfillment of the Old Testament. Since the Jews were the chosen people of the Old Testament, it is logical to choose Jews.

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Since it is men who offer sacrifice in the Old Testament, it is logical Christ would only choose men.

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I should have known someone who quotes FDR wouldn’t understand logic.

---

Here’s an FDR quote for you to ponder, “I believe that if you scratch the surface, underneath you will find a gentleman.” FDR was talking about Josef Stalin, the most brutal dictator of all time. Stalin killed 10 times more people than Adolf Hitler, yet FDR saw fit to hand over all of eastern Europe to this butcher.

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No wonder you hate the Church.

 

[tcay584]

MaggieOH:

Absolutely not. You cannot trust a woman in a management position in the workforce. Imagine how much worse a woman will be as a priest.

There are also Scriptural reasons why this will never happen.

MaggieOH

You have got to be kidding…please tell me you’re kidding.
I agree that women are not to be ordained, but your other statements are sexist and ignorant. I will assume you were joking…right?
Jennifer

 

[Island_Oak]

MaggieOH:

Absolutely not. You cannot trust a woman in a management position in the workforce. Imagine how much worse a woman will be as a priest.

There are also Scriptural reasons why this will never happen.

MaggieOH

Are you wearing your “I have some unresolved issues” button today?

 

[Island_Oak]

fix:

Do you honestly think that the Vatican will allow female ordination, of any sort?

Not in our lifetime, but there is nothing that I would more like to see change in the Church than this. I am reassured to see you still have the inside track on the mind of God and who he calls for which tasks.

 

[Island_Oak]

puzzleannie:

ordination is a sacrament instituted by Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ did not ordain women to any ministerial role, therefore women cannot be ordained, it is an impossibility.

Did Jesus ever baptize a baby, perform a marriage, annoint or perform last rites? Are these traditions and sacraments made any less legitimate by him not having engaged in their performance? So much has evoled over 2000 years…I find it difficult to stop the discussion at “Jesus didn’t do it–so it’s not an option.”

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Island Oak:

puzzleannie:

Did Jesus ever baptize a baby, perform a marriage, annoint or perform last rites? Are these traditions and sacraments made any less legitimate by him not having engaged in their performance? So much has evoled over 2000 years…I find it difficult to stop the discussion at “Jesus didn’t do it–so it’s not an option.”

Island Oak,
I took a look at your profile and it seems you have chosen not to list your religion.

I am guessing your not Catholic, or at the very least a cafetera catholic who thinks one can pick and choose.

It should be enough to say this is what the Church Teaches. One of the reasons is that Jesus did not do it. What is wrong with that? Jesus and the Church are the same today, yesterday, and tomorrow.

Can you show me where it states that the Church evovles? It doesn’t.
Island Oak:

Not in our lifetime, but there is nothing that I would more like to see change in the Church than this. I am reassured to see you still have the inside track on the mind of God and who he calls for which tasks.

Not ever. We do know the mind of God, it was laid out with public revelation which is done with. Our understanding of this may change but not the basics.

Yes God calls, God calls though His Church. The Church has stated that only men may be ordained. God does not call women to the priesthood.

This is a Catholic Forum. We discuss what the Catholic Church Teaches. I do not understand your posts on this issue. If you disagree that is fine, many protestants do, but you can not expect us to welcome that here or agree with it.

 

[patg]

]
Christ could choose either Jews or Gentiles. Since Christ started the Catholic Church.

No he didn’t - he was a dedicated Jew following the Jewish religion up through the day he died. There is no pervasive evidence he tried to start a church.

Christ said He is the fulfillment of the Old Testament.

Yes things like that were written by his followers.

Since the Jews were the chosen people of the Old Testament, it is logical to choose Jews.

I agree.

Since it is men who offer sacrifice in the Old Testament, it is logical Christ would only choose men.

Your lack of logic is amazing.

I should have known someone who quotes FDR wouldn’t understand logic.

I have no opinion of FDR - I just really like the quote. Here’s a better one for you:

A conservative is a man who believes that nothing should be be done for the first time." Alfred Wiggam

Sort of applies to this topic, doesn’t it?

No wonder you hate the Church

.
What sort of mindless drivel is that? Behind on your medications today?

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Ordinatio Sacerdotalis
Cannot be wrong!
“To remove all doubt”
Puts a kink in
The song
Of the rad fems everywhere!

Sorry, sorry, sometimes you’re sitting there trying to be rational and free verse just kind of whacks you in the head. Leaving now.

 

[CatQuilt]

Kevin Walker:

The Pope has already made that very clear to quash all the rumors started by non-Catholic Christians that the Vatican has started to consider married Priests as a result of the homosexual abuse scandal in the Church.

No ordained women.

No married Priests.

No homosexual Priests.

Thank God for John Paul II.

Amen to all of the above!

:bible1:

 

[tee_eff_em]

Island Oak:

Did Jesus ever …] annoint …]?

When he had said these things, he spat on the ground and made clay of the spittle and spread the clay upon his eyes, And said to him: Go, wash in the pool of Siloe, which is interpreted, Sent. He went therefore and washed: and he came seeing.

JOHN 9:6-7​

tee

 

[Island_Oak]

ByzCath:

Island Oak,
I took a look at your profile and it seems you have chosen not to list your religion.

I am guessing your not Catholic, or at the very least a cafetera catholic who thinks one can pick and choose.

It should be enough to say this is what the Church Teaches. One of the reasons is that Jesus did not do it. What is wrong with that? Jesus and the Church are the same today, yesterday, and tomorrow.

Can you show me where it states that the Church evovles? It doesn’t.

Not ever. We do know the mind of God, it was laid out with public revelation which is done with. Our understanding of this may change but not the basics.

Yes God calls, God calls though His Church. The Church has stated that only men may be ordained. God does not call women to the priesthood.

This is a Catholic Forum. We discuss what the Catholic Church Teaches. I do not understand your posts on this issue. If you disagree that is fine, many protestants do, but you can not expect us to welcome that here or agree with it.

Apparently I need to go back and complete my profile–you are not the only one to get wrapped around the ax handle because I failed in my initial registration to list myself as Catholic–always have been–Catholic grade school through Jesuit University.

There is plenty of evidence of evolution in the Catholic Church-one need not be a history scholar to know this. I am troubled by any human who claims to KNOW the mind/intent of God with perfect clarity. Do I believe scriptures and the prophets were the work of divine inspiration? Certainly. Do they completely answer all our human questions about God. Certainly not. Do the words and deeds of Christ give us guidance–absolutely.

As far as this issue goes I simply don’t see it as such a black and white declaration or prohibition by omission on the part of Jesus. While there are clearly physical impediments to a man bearing children, there is nothing inherently inferior or any incapacity to prieshood merely by consideration of gender. I don’t raise this issue in a public forum or out of rebellion with the church, but within the family of Catholics who participate in these forums. It is a topic which is worthy of discussion and education.

 

[davy39]

AnnieD:

Excellent Points, BulldogCath!! I am against the ordination of women, but as you mentioned, who would have thought all those years ago, we would be hit in the face, with homosexual priests,
and feminist nuns, our children being abused by Priests, Our lord taken to a side room etc. The devil is hard at work in our Church.


Annie

In our diocese, (Toledo, Oh.) just the opposite will be happining in the future. The crucifix and the tabernacle will be returning to front and center, and parts of the Mass will return to latin, much like EWTN. I also hope they return the statues of the saints to their proper place. (Ours are covered up in the old choir loft).

 

[Scullinius]

patg:

But Christ chose Jews, which shows how illogical the “Christ chose men” argument is.

By that reasoning, since Christ chose only Jewish men from that part of the world, then there shouldn’t be any Irish priests… or Italian priests… or Polish Popes.

 

[Scullinius]

tcay584:

You have got to be kidding…please tell me you’re kidding.
I agree that women are not to be ordained, but your other statements are sexist and ignorant. I will assume you were joking…right?

Maybe she works in a corporate law firm and was just over-generalizing.

 

[Scullinius]

patg:

No he didn’t - he was a dedicated Jew following the Jewish religion up through the day he died.

Then why did the Sanhedrin want him dead?

patg:

There is no pervasive evidence he tried to start a church.

Umm… Matthew 16:18?

 

[Swiss_Guard]

patg:

Originally Posted by Swiss Guard
Christ could choose either Jews or Gentiles. Since Christ started the Catholic Church.

No he didn’t - he was a dedicated Jew following the Jewish religion up through the day he died. There is no pervasive evidence he tried to start a church.

No pervasive evidence? I suppose we are to ignore all of Sacred Scripture and the writings of the Church fathers because they don’t support your point of view. You remind me of Fundamentalists who want to argue the Catholic Church isn’t the Church of Christ and then insist I prove it by only using sources that meet with their approval.

I take it you also don’t believe in the Resurrection, since this isn’t the first time you’ve used the line “up through the day he died.” If there is no Resurrection, there is no priesthood.

I checked your profile to see what religion you are and you don’t list any. The only thing you list is your business website. Which means you are either not Catholic or a very poorly catechized Catholic.

Here is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says about the origin of the Catholic Church:

763 It was the Son’s task to accomplish the Father’s plan of salvation in the fullness of time. Its accomplishment was the reason for his being sent.[160] “The Lord Jesus inaugurated his Church by preaching the Good News, that is, the coming of the Reign of God, promised over the ages in the scriptures.”[161] To fulfill the Father’s will, Christ ushered in the Kingdom of heaven on earth. The Church “is the Reign of Christ already present in mystery.”[162]

**765 The Lord Jesus endowed his community with a structure that will remain until the Kingdom is fully achieved. Before all else there is the choice of the Twelve with Peter as their head.[168] Representing the twelve tribes of Israel, they are the foundation stones of the new Jerusalem.[169] The Twelve and the other disciples share in Christ’s mission and his power, but also in his lot.[170] By all his actions, Christ prepares and builds his Church. **
766 The Church is born primarily of Christ’s total self-giving for our salvation, anticipated in the institution of the Eucharist and fulfilled on the cross. “The origin and growth of the Church are symbolized by the blood and water which flowed from the open side of the crucified Jesus.”[171] “For it was from the side of Christ as he slept the sleep of death upon the cross that there came forth the ‘wondrous sacrament of the whole Church.’”[172] As Eve was formed from the sleeping Adam’s side, so the Church was born from the pierced heart of Christ hanging dead on the cross.[173]

160 Cf. Lumen Gentium 3; Ad Gentes 3.
161 LG 5.
162 LG 3.
168 Cf. Mk 3:14-15.
169 Cf. Mt 19:28; Lk 22:30; Rev 21:12-14.
170 Cf. Mk 6:7; Lk 10:1-2; Mt 10:25; Jn 15:20.
172 Sacrosanctum Concilium 5.
173 Cf. St. Ambrose, In Luc. 2, 85-89 PL 15,1666-1668.

christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/church1.html#CATHOLIC

The Catechism shows the Church was started by Jesus, that He indeed intended to start His Church, and this has been believed through the centuries. Sacred Scripture, St. Ambrose and Vatican II are footnoted to support this. There are many other sources to use as evidence, but you obviously won’t accept them since they disagree with your viewpoint. I am supposed to accept your limited knowledge rather than historical evidence.

patg:

Originally Posted by Swiss Guard
Christ said He is the fulfillment of the Old Testament.

Yes things like that were written by his followers.

His followers were put to death for writing and preaching things like that. Nobody willing suffers death for a lie.

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Continued in the next post.

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[Swiss_Guard]

patg:

Originally Posted by Swiss Guard
Since the Jews were the chosen people of the Old Testament, it is logical to choose Jews.

I agree.

Now you agree with Sacred Scripture. Sacred Scripture also says that Christ said to Peter that he is the rock on which Christ will build His Church, but you don’t accept that as evidence. You pick and choose what you want to believe from Scripture.

patg:

Originally Posted by Swiss Guard
Since it is men who offer sacrifice in the Old Testament, it is logical Christ would only choose men.

Your lack of logic is amazing.

Now I have an amazing lack of logic, when in the last post you agreed with my logic. Make up your mind, which is it?

You level an attack against me but give no reason why I have an amazing lack of logic. Christ is the fulfillment of the Old Testament. The Jews were the chosen people of the Old Testament. Christ would choose Jews to be His followers rather than Gentiles since the Jews are the chosen people and Christ fulfills the Old Testament. Since Christ did not come to destroy the Old Testament but fulfill it, it is logical for Him to choose only men as priests since only men were priests in the Old Testament. The difference being Christ’s priesthood is eternal, since he is the fulfillment of the Old Testament.

Once again I am supposed to believe something without a reason simply because you said it.

patg:

Originally Posted by Swiss Guard
I should have known someone who quotes FDR wouldn’t understand logic.

I have no opinion of FDR - I just really like the quote. Here’s a better one for you:

A conservative is a man who believes that nothing should be be done for the first time." Alfred Wiggam

Sort of applies to this topic, doesn’t it?

I find it hard to believe you have no opinion of FDR when you seem to have an opinion of everything else.

The Wiggam quote doesn’t apply to this topic because I believe Christ should have ordained priests for the first time, that Christ should have founded His Church for the first time, and that Christ should have instituted the sacraments for the first time. I just don’t possess the arrogance to know better than God.

Priesthood is not just a function, which is what those who want women’s ordination make it to be. John Paul II addresses this in his Apostolic letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, which can be accessed by clicking on the link below.

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_22051994_ordinatio-sacerdotalis_en.html

Since we’re also on the subject of quotes, here’s one for you, with all due respect to TNT:

Liberalism : A mental disorder wherein the illogical becomes completely logical with no lasting effect on the conscience.

Sort of applies to your way of thinking, doesn’t it?

patg:

Originally Posted by Swiss Guard
No wonder you hate the Church.

What sort of mindless drivel is that? Behind on your medications today?

I stooped to your level with that comment about you hating the Church, so I deserve the reply you gave me.

I take back that you hate the Church, but I will say you have an extreme prejudice against the Church, given the fact you won’t accept any Church teaching as evidence if you personally disagree with it.

I’m new to this forum, but I have noticed a number of people who post here don’t give any reason or evidence for their comments. We are to believe them because they said it. They act like their comments are coming from the burning bush and we dare not ask for a reason or evidence to support their comments.

I’m not singling you out on this patg because there are many more people here who do it. I know there are trolls here, as their are on every internet forum. I’m not talking about them. Trolls don’t really believe anything, they just post to antagonize.

Please accept my apology on saying you hate the Church and good luck with your business.