Should you MAKE your kids go to Mass? SORRY LONG!

[robwar]

quick question to OP, why are you so interested in the free/no school philosophy?
Were you or your husband raised this way? Why does this appeal to you so much and what evidence that raising children this way will result in the desired effects of motivated children?

 

[judynurse]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! You made such a absolutely beautiful point with your story… until you said, basically, I should take my kids to Parochial School…

Man… I was so touched. Why did you have to say something that really had nothing to do with ‘if I will or will not make my kids go to Mass and religious things’? In a way, it’s kind of a turn off now. It’s like if you sang a gorgeous song and cough right near the end. Oh well… I will try not to let this insult ruin the big picture…

((Oh… and if my kids want to go to a Parochial school, I WOULD let them… at any age. It’s just right now, they are happy the way I teach them at home. Don’t worry; they are very smart and social!)))

I am not saying that you should make your kids go to Parochial School. I am saying that if they want to go to school outside of home, a Parochial school would be better than the current culture found in public schools. I only had two years of Parochial School, from age 8 to 10, but learned a lot of my faith there. Where else would I have learned?? My Mom was absolutely non-religious. My Great-Aunt, who had started teaching me the Catholic faith (she was the only Catholic in our family) was getting old and was then blind as well, and lived hundreds of miles away. Your children have a nurturing, religious home. I did not have that great blessing. I grew up surrounded by people from the age of 7 who had NO faith of any sort, no church, no Bibles. Thank God for the two years of religious education I received from the Sisters! Would you think it likely I would have been faithful to the Church in such an environment if I hadn’t had those two years??? I’m not trying to insult you, but another poster mentioned Parochial school. Did not know you considered such a suggestion an insult. It saved my faith and taught me the basics that got me through a very difficult time from age 10 to age 18.

 

[MyVavies]

I am not saying that you should make your kids go to Parochial School. I am saying that if they want to go to school outside of home, a Parochial school would be better than the current culture found in public schools. I only had two years of Parochial School, from age 8 to 10, but learned a lot of my faith there. Where else would I have learned?? My Mom was absolutely non-religious. My Great-Aunt, who had started teaching me the Catholic faith (she was the only Catholic in our family) was getting old and was then blind as well, and lived hundreds of miles away. Your children have a nurturing, religious home. I did not have that great blessing. I grew up surrounded by people from the age of 7 who had NO faith of any sort, no church, no Bibles. Thank God for the two years of religious education I received from the Sisters! Would you think it likely I would have been faithful to the Church in such an environment if I hadn’t had those two years??? I’m not trying to insult you, but another poster mentioned Parochial school. Did not know you considered such a suggestion an insult. It saved my faith and taught me the basics that got me through a very difficult time from age 10 to age 18.

Oh… okay… didn’t know you were saying ‘between the two type of schools’ to choose Parochial School. Some parochial schools are very good, and some public schools are too. Like wise with bad. So based on what is around us, and what will fit my children, we will have to put everything under consideration IF we have to make a decision.

The reason why i was so “upset” with you and not the other poster, was … even though I don’t know either one of you… I valued your comments more then the others.

 

[Ella77]

We have said all who live in our household attend mass as a family - and we were in a state where the teens had wiggled out of going. (We were wrong to let this happen and have been reaping the results of kids tied even more to values that are so very different from ours.) This change is hard but this is our duty and responsibility to bring them up in our faith as was promised at their baptism. We are saying all of this calmly and with love, but it is how it is, you live here, you go to mass with the family, that’s just what we do. Because we love and and sometimes we love you enough to let you be mad at us.

I fell away from my faith in college, but had a foundation to return to because my parents did the right thing, not the easy thing, and I now thank them for it. You cannot make a decision without information and a child (someone who lives under the parents roof) needs information to be able to later make decisions as an adult.

We (and society) make kids do a lot of things for their own good later on, why is faith any different? This is the greatest gift we can give our children! It should not be up for discussion, it should be what the family does.

 

[aragonjohn1]

I am what I call a TRUE Roman Catholic. What I mean by that is I believe in all the Church’s teachings even though I may or may not understand them. I don’t go around and pick and choose what I will and will not believe in these core teachings (cafeteria Catholic). If there is something I don’t understand or question, I pray and talk to my TRUE Roman Catholic parents/in laws, the religious that I trust and/or good friends. However something as parenting is not really a Church teaching. (THINKS) the Church teaches that, with God’s guidance, they leave parenting up to the parents.

So… with this “freedom” I am not what you call your average parent. I unschool my 6, 3 and 1 year old and will do it all through school (unless they want to go to public/private school with good reason) and in parenting.

                                              (((((((Unschooling is a form of homeschool/parenting where you allow your children to decide what they want to learn, when to learn, how long to stay on the subject, BUT I have set ideas of what I want them to know by the time they are 18 and help them stay focus and organized. Not just in school, but where I hope they will be in their faith too. I do this by: installing the love of learning and God in them, hold family meetings where my husband and I build cooperation in our kids, pray/ask for help and role model (for School: read, take college/online classes, etc.. Religion: go to church, say the rosary daily, go to adoration, etc...). As a unschooler, your job is to get your kids interested in whatever you think they would like, not know yet and I feel need to know, or have a gift for ......if they need motivation that is. Most unschoolers don't, but that's a different post lol.))))))

So, here is my dilemma. Once they have the ability to TRULY understand right from wrong–mostly around age 7 when they receive their first reconciliation— then the only ‘discipline’ implemented from then on is natural consequences. Instead of punishing / rewarding or MAKING my kids do something, we use techniques that get them to think about the consequences of their actions, so they will/won’t want to do it. And if they don’t/do end up doing it, then they learn by those natural consequences, and afterwards we talk about what they learned. (Like allowing them to go outside without a coat, even though there was a friendly suggestion, to figure out they need one and to come back.)

We believe every choice your child makes is a positive or a negative consequence that will impact their lives (and even others) forever. It may not seem that way, but even the smallest thing as sitting with the family to eat breakfast or sitting alone on the stairs while they eat that morning, will be a decision to better or worse themselves. (Example The Butterfly Effect… the movie not really the theory).

And one parenting expert said “Many teens reach their adult years having no clue on how to make decisions. They “know better”, but still make bad choices. The reason is many of those foolish choices are the REAL first choices they had ever made!”

I think about how a lot of Catholics were MADE to go to Church, and once they are young adults, they rebel and stop going. I can’t help but think if they only could have rebelled at 7…11…16 or whatever, they would’ve had the guidance to be ‘talked through it’ and something adults don’t really have and children do, more time.

With that said, THANK GOD so far my kids want to do all these religious things. They think it’s fun and say they can feel the Holy Spirit work within them. However, what do we do once it’s no longer fun to them, or they don’t want to go to Church? Either because of desolation, or it is that realization that even the Roman Catholic Church is not perfect because it is run by humans. I understand that Mass and basically everything in life is NOT always fun and we STILL need to do it. How can I teach this to them with continuing to allow them to make the ultimate decision? Because my gut does not want to MAKE them participate in their faith but mold them into WANTING to procrastinate , even if it isn’t fun.

parents have the God-given obligation to help they’re children become saints. because we are not perfect we need God particularly in the sacrifice of the mass heaven on earth.

so, yes whenever the child can recognize that God is there by an age they know Him that person should go to mass.

God bless

 

[camerons]

If you have an infant that doesn’t want to eat would you stop feeding him? You can’t he’d die. I admire you for allowing your children the opportunity to make poor decisions so that they can learn from them. But I’m sure you have some limits, correct? You have to decide whats best for your children. I think missing mass is out of the question. Even if they don’t want to be there god can still be working in there hearts. I will make my children eat because I want them to live and be healthy and happy. I will like wise make my children go to mass. The Eucharist is the source and summit of our faith and ought to be the greatest joy in our lives. I hope getting your children to mass isn’t a struggle.

 

[MyVavies]

Touché! Ya… I was worried about that too in the level of Unschooling we do with our kids.

You see, there are different “levels” that one is willing to do in this theory. Some are what is called Radical Unschooling, were the child is free to choose what THEY think is right and wrong in the parenting part (even if it is against the law… not just God’s law). SCARY HU! Then, there are the ones who are closer to what we do, by giving choices. However, there are some who go little further away from Radical Unschooling then our family. These parents also have a punishment if the child chooses the wrong choice. (Like time out, spanking, etc).

What I listed on the definition of unschooling was ,in the original post, is the level my family feels comfortable right now in our lives. Unless the other families ,who are the same level as us, explain to me how a situation like the one you just described can be handled still with only natural consequences, we may have to go down a degree. What is called the natural AND logical consequences level. (Something like what you may have heard of, called Love and Logic). We will see…

Oh… by the way… you made a good comparison! I will have to make sure to add that to my unschooling message board question post when asking how one goes about when disciplining. Thanks.

Okay…I WAS TOLD I NEEDED TO CORRECT THIS from some daihard Radical Unschooler who read my post, about what a Radical Unschooler will and will not do with raising a kid.,(sigh). I guess there is one more higher level then Radical Unschoolers. One, like I described who will let there kids do/believe in ANYTHING they want, regardless of what others say (even law-enforcement). I KNOW there has to be people out there like that. There are people to the extremes on any sides of ANYTHING , and I thought those people where Radical Unschoolers. I guess I was wrong. From what I was told, Radical Unschoolers DO have none negotiables things; like ER visits when sick, playing with guns, etc… But to me that is “telling them what to do”, something they feel so strongly against ! SOOOO I am lost and sick of the run around in knowing what a “True Radical Unschooler” is. So if someone who knows more about this then me would like to explain directly how one can NEVER tell a child what to do AND still have things like non negotiables is possible, go right ahead! I would love to FINELY hear how things work in that world.

 

[MyVavies]

quick question to OP, why are you so interested in the free/no school philosophy?
Were you or your husband raised this way? Why does this appeal to you so much and what evidence that raising children this way will result in the desired effects of motivated children?

You know… I really don’t know. I like looking into different ways of thinking. You never know what could be the better way in ANYTHING, not just parenting. People once thought the world was flat ,and it was ‘odd’ to think other wise , and now look! I want the best way to do things in life. That sometimes means looking into the ‘weird stuff’ '. As long as it does not go against my Roman Catholic faith, I will be open to coming to my own conclusion on what I will and wont believe.
I guess, my question is then why don’t you search outside the box? Or do you sometimes?

 

[yppop]

You know… I really don’t know. I like looking into different ways of thinking. You never know what could be the better way in ANYTHING, not just parenting. People once thought the world was flat ,and it was ‘odd’ to think other wise , and now look! I want the best way to do things in life. That sometimes means looking into the ‘weird stuff’ '. As long as it does not go against my Roman Catholic faith, I will be open to coming to my own conclusion on what I will and wont believe.
I guess, my question is then why don’t you search outside the box? Or do you sometimes?

MyVavies
Seems to me that experimenting with parenting is a dangerous game to play; bad results are difficult to reverse. My wife and I successfully raised 8 children and we used the most conservative, tried and true approach. We relieved the burden from their immature minds and made all their decisions for them until they reached adulthood around age 18; we immersed them in Catholicism with a minimum of preaching; sent them to 12 years of Catholic schools; set an example as serious practicing Catholics, and set a high level of expectation regarding moral, charitable, non-judgmental, social, educational, and religious behavior.

Did they always meet the those expectations? Of course they didn’t; they were all normal and well adjusted, and occasionally disregarded those expectations. In all cases, we resolved problems with mutual discussions based on reason set on a foundation of Catholicism. Seven of our children made excellent choices regarding marriage, all are in long term marriages, and all they and their spouses are now practicing Catholics (4 conversions). Our eighth child is a Catholic priest.

All of our married children and their spouses are raising or have raised our 22 grandchildren using the same parenting approach as we used to raise them. And so far our grandchildren range in age from 29 to 8 and, as far as we can tell, most are practicing Catholics and none have left the church.

You may regard my anecdotal data however you please, and I wish you well with your unusual approach to raising you darling children to be Catholic men and women.

However, I personally cannot envision raising children to be devout practicing Catholics without demonstrating its value by sacrificing the time, money and energy that Catholic education demands. And believe me, I’d be the first to admit that Catholic education is far from perfect, but what education, nowadays, is. I look at our experience in paying tuition for imperfect education to have been an example to our children that we placed a high value on the Catholic environment of a Catholic school, an environment that can seldom be found elsewhere.

If you would like more details regarding my wife and my success in raising children to be good Catholic men and women feel free to contact me.

Yppop