Should you marry someone who doesn't attend Church while you are dating?

[jmcrae]

Thank you for adding some humor to all of this! Maybe because only God can determine who is going to hell not us (well unless we “sell our souls to the devil” or worship the devil then I think you don’t have much of a chance, although that is still for God to determine.

We don’t make the final decision, but we know what the criteria are, and we can evaluate situations according to the known criteria.

When we say that we “don’t know” what happens to people on their death beds, that doesn’t mean that they suddenly get to go to Heaven; it means that we actually don’t know.

I used to have the pie-in-the-sky idea that everyone converts on their death-bed, until I got hit by a bus - during the entire ordeal it never even occurred to me to pray at all, and at the time I was a Protestant Christian who attended Church every Sunday and prayed every day - when I got out of the hospital I thought of that experience, and I thought, if it didn’t occur to me to pray when I was on what could easily have turned out to be my death-bed, how could it occur to an atheist or to someone who is not in the habit of prayer at all?

When you are sick and in the hospital, the spiritual aspect of what you are going through does not even come into your mind, because you are way too busy dealing with the physical side of it.

Also, I have never heard of or known of anyone changing religions during a serious illness; I think those kinds of decisions have to be made when we are well and everything in our life is going well.

 

[jmcrae]

So you believe all Jews will go to Hell also???

The default setting for all human beings is that we all go to Hell. This is a consequence of Original Sin - the sin of Adam and Eve, who broke our original relationship with God through their disobedience.

We change our destination from Hell to Heaven by becoming baptized, living the Christian life, following the Commandments, partaking of the Sacraments of the Church, and engaging in a living relationship with Jesus Christ.

 

[JustAnotherThou]

The default setting for all human beings is that we all go to Hell. This is a consequence of Original Sin - the sin of Adam and Eve, who broke our original relationship with God through their disobedience.

We change our destination from Hell to Heaven by becoming baptized, living the Christian life, following the Commandments, partaking of the Sacraments of the Church, and engaging in a living relationship with Jesus Christ.

Before I respond further to you, I have a question. Are you Roman Catholic?

 

[jmcrae]

Before I respond further to you, I have a question. Are you Roman Catholic?

Yes. To the best of my understanding, this is the teaching of the Church.

The Church also states that in certain unknown cases, God can break His own rules and save whomever He wants to save.

We have absolutely no evidence that He has ever actually done this, though, and my experience of the world that He has created is that miracles of equivalent magnitude are quite rare.

 

[JustAnotherThou]

The Church also states that in certain unknown cases, God can break His own rules and save whomever He wants to save.

My point exactly. I also have no knowledge of the Church telling people (or having their members tell people) that they “are going to Hell” such as you did in your previous post!

This has gotten away from the initial intent of this thread, therefore I am not going to continue this with you. I understand that you feel that telling people they will go to hell may be your way of evangelizing, although from all the Church readings I have done and from Church officials I have spoken to they do not believe that is appropriate. I did have our priest over for dinner last night and I asked him about people (Catholic or not) who tell people that they will go to Hell. I asked him how to reply to someone such as that. His advice was to ask them if they are God.
As far as your statements in regard to my question on if you believe that Jews would go to Hell because they have not accepted Jesus Christ as their savior, I would recommend that you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church 839

"Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."325

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”;328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329

840
And when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.

In regards to the Church’s teaching on purgatory I would suggest your reading the following.
ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2HEAVN.HTM

I doubt you regret asking the OP how her children feel about their father going to hell. I really do hope that you rethink your method of evangelizing our Catholic faith. You seem pretty set in your ways, so I will just pray.

Peace be with you

 

[jmcrae]

I did not say that anybody was going to Hell.

But if someone who has an atheist spouse is raising their children in the Catholic faith and is sending them to Catholic school, this is a question that would enter the children’s minds. “Is Daddy going to Heaven?”

Nobody in the Catholic Church can say, one way or the other. It is not at all likely. A miracle could happen, but miracles are quite rare.

My question had to do with how she deals with this.

I still don’t know the answer to my question, but I get the sense that she is under the impression that her husband is one of the special exceptions to the laws of the Universe.

 

[JustAnotherThou]

How do your children feel about the fact that their father will not be coming to Heaven with them?

If you don’t make it to Heaven, then you go to Hell, right?

 

[jmcrae]

How do your children feel about the fact that their father will not be coming to Heaven with them?

This is a fact that they are learning in Catholic school, right?

If you don’t make it to Heaven, then you go to Hell, right?

Right.

And you are absolutely right that I am not the Judge.

Everyone would make it to Heaven, if I were, because I would have to lower the standards so low that I and all my friends and relatives could get in - we are talking here about Wiccans, alcoholics, Protestants, practicing homosexuals, atheists, and petty criminals.

Fortunately for the people who are already in Heaven, I am not in charge, and they will not be required to put up with my friends and relatives.

 

[JustAnotherThou]

So you did say their father is going to Hell?!?!?!

(those were your quotes, that is what they said)

 

[jmcrae]

So you did say their father is going to Hell?!?!?!

If nothing changes between now and his death, what is the most likely outcome? Be completely honest.

Either way that you decide, is this you passing judgment, or is it just an evaluation of the facts as they stand, while letting God have the final say?

I think people need to get past the idea that “most people” go to Heaven, or that we all have some kind of intrinsic “right” to go to Heaven - that as long as you are a “nice person” God is somehow required to let you in.

No.

Not even most Catholics make it to Heaven; what chance does anyone else have?

Apart from a series of very unlikely miracles to occur, of course.

 

[giddyupgal5]

First off, thank you to everyone that is supporting the fact that no one in their right mind should be telling another person that their children’s father is not going to Heaven. I do not think he is an acception. I do not think most people go to Heaven. I do not justify my husband being atheist. What I know is that God, while jealous and fearsome, is a loving and forgiving God. We are taught through Catholicism about the beauty of God’s forgiveness. Why do you think we have confession? That’s the beauty of the Catholic Church. I’m not saying you can go murder someone and the next day go to confession and poof… you’re forgiven, you’re going to Heaven. But I do know that my husband is a great man. I don’t feel any need to explain how great of a person he is, but he is just that up and down, left and right. It scares me, yes, that he could possibly be going to Hell, but really, I’m scared I’M going to Hell… I’m scared about my whole family… nobody’s perfect… nobody knows exactly each and every little thing God throws people in Hell for or welcomes them in Heaven for… nobody knows… that’s the beauty of faith… I keep praying day to day about my whole family making it to the pearly gates… I believe praying for people also helps one way or another… I also believe in sacrificing parts of my life - myself, so that he and our family don’t go to Hell (giving things up, offering things to those in need, etc)… so to finally “answer” your questions about my children, when they get old enough to ask if their daddy’s going to Heaven, I’m going to say “I don’t know” because that is the most honest answer I can give my children… you should really put those 3 words into your vocabulary and leave more things up to God to answer…