Should you say the creed if you have doubts?

[Sy_Noe]

I reject the premise that the Catholic Church is based upon some psychological need or that it is a matter of preference based upon what seems to bring us the most peace.

The Catholic Church exists because Jesus Christ himself founded it. The truth which it possesses is divinely revealed truth. Sometimes this truth can bring us anything but peace, especially if we are not living within God’s will. Sometimes we need to be made to feel uneasy. Nevertheless, it is the truth that we should seek, not a peaceful feeling based upon our own desires and personal preferences.

When the 5,000 walked away from Jesus after hearing that they must eat his flesh and drink his blood he turned to the Apostles and asked “will you also go?”. The apostles didn’t answer “no, Lord, we understand exactly what you meant”. They said "To whom shall we go? You have the words of everlasting life." They didn’t believe or follow Jesus because they understood, but rather because of the One who told them. We do the same. We eat His body and drink His blood, not because we understand, but because he commanded it. That is the Catholic faith. It has nothing to do with finite minds.

But what about the Truth? Does it matter, or is it only a matter of feeling comfortable somewhere?

Indeed I know that you as a faithful Catholic believe the RCC remains as the church Christ founded. Jn 6 has more than one interpretation among Christians. Yes truth matters to the extent humans can be certain of it.

 

[PaulDupre1]

My opinion: say it until you believe it, and then keep on saying it.

That sounds like one of the things I hated about Mormonism: They told us if we did not have a “testimony” of the LDS church, we should bear testimony (publically declare that we “know” the LDS church is true) until we had a testimony.

IOW, if you tell the lie often enough, you will come to believe it. That is a form of self-deception and cultish mind-control.

IMHO it has no place in Catholicism, which is the true and apostolic faith and does not need to resort to such tactics.

I truly don’t mean this as an attack against you, jmcrea; you just hit a sore spot and I had to speak up.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

 

[Mystophilus]

if God is the arbiter of truth, then you can say “I believe - help Thou mine unbelief” with a clear conscience.

Um, actually, no, I cannot: if I do not have a horse, then saying, “I have a horse,” is a lie; if I do not feel happy, then saying, “I feel happy,” is a lie; if I do not believe, then saying, “I believe”, is a lie.

If I want to believe, saying, “I want to believe; please, help me,” is fine, but “I want to believe” is a different statement.

 

[Sy_Noe]

That sounds like one of the things I hated about Mormonism: They told us if we did not have a “testimony” of the LDS church, we should bear testimony (publically declare that we “know” the LDS church is true) until we had a testimony.

IOW, if you tell the lie often enough, you will come to believe it. That is a form of self-deception and cultish mind-control.

IMHO it has no place in Catholicism, which is the true and apostolic faith and does not need to resort to such tactics.

I truly don’t mean this as an attack against you, jmcrea; you just hit a sore spot and I had to speak up.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

I dislike as you phrased it “cultish mind control”. I try to steer clear of those types of faiths.

 

[PaulDupre1]

I dislike as you phrased it “cultish mind control”. I try to steer clear of those types of faiths.

I wish I could have steered clear of it, but I was a rather sheltered and immature 21 year -old who had just experienced a devastating loss. The LDS missionaries (sent by my sister) got me when I was most vulnerable. The LDS do indeed engage in cultish mind control.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

 

[RebeccaJ]

Hi All

At the church I attend, on and off, we say the Nicene creed in the morning service and the Apostles’ creed in the evening service.

I have doubts about some of the content (God from God, true God from true God, etc). I don’t even know what this means, whether it is intelligible (apologies), never mind whether I believe it.

Also I cannot say I definitely believe Jesus was born from a virgin, and “I believe in the Holy Catholic church”… I always smile at that bit considering the church I attend is protestant

My question is if you have doubts about any of the content, should you say the creed or not? Are you better not saying it and staying silent?

Or is it ok to say it, as it is a group declaration rather than a personal one?

I guess this is applicable to Catholics as well, as I guess there may be some here may face the same question.

I went to Mass, as an atheist, for a year or so. I said the creed off and on, saying it was more like trying it on, not expressing what I believed.

Before I was baptized Catholic, I said the creed with a mental conversation going on with myself. “Do I believe that?”, for each doctrinal point. My last, “no” was the “unseen” part. Coming from atheism, believing in one unseen being, God, was a difficult and emotionally painful journey. Thinking that I had to get on board with a bunch more unseen beings, felt very daunting. Impossible even.

You have to work out the, I don’t believe parts, for yourself.

 

[Telstar]

I went to Mass, as an atheist, for a year or so. I said the creed off and on, saying it was more like trying it on, not expressing what I believed.

Before I was baptized Catholic, I said the creed with a mental conversation going on with myself. “Do I believe that?”, for each doctrinal point. My last, “no” was the “unseen” part. Coming from atheism, believing in one unseen being, God, was a difficult and emotionally painful journey. Thinking that I had to get on board with a bunch more unseen beings, felt very daunting. Impossible even.

You have to work out the, I don’t believe parts, for yourself.

I think that’s an excellent example of how we can all approach the Creed.

First of all, I think if we can just get past, “I believe in God”, then the rest can all be attributed to that first simple faith. Second of all, if we also believe in Jesus, then the rest are that much easier to believe, as long as we’re willing to follow His faithful example, and trust Him to lead us ‘to all truth’ through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit that He sent to us. If we can just believe in God, above all, then we must also be willing to believe in everything that God requires us to believe.

Even if we have trouble understanding some of it, we sometimes really do need to be like little children, who believe everything their parents tell them, just because they love them and want to please them. Eventually, we all hope to have a firm belief in all of it. But sometimes, we just need to let go of our nagging doubts long enough to ask God to help us with those things that we have so much trouble believing.

 

[SteveVH]

Jn 6 has more than one interpretation among Christians.

And who was given the authority to interpret Scripture?

Yes truth matters to the extent humans can be certain of it.

Truth matters, very much, even if one is not certain. That is why we should always seek it. Truth is not relative. Even if I believe I can fly, if I jump out of an airplane without a parachute I will die. This will happen each and every time a person jumps without a chute, regardless of the degree of one’s certainty due to the objective truth of gravity.

Christ revealed divine Truth to his Church, a truth not dependent upon one’s ability or willingness to accept it. The Church, with the power and authority to bind and loose, then formed doctrines based upon this revealed Truth which were handed down through the centuries. The fact that someone comes along 1500 years later and disagrees based upon their own private notions does not change the truth that was delivered to the Church.

Peace.

 

[jmcrae]

Um, actually, no, I cannot: if I do not have a horse, then saying, “I have a horse,” is a lie; if I do not feel happy, then saying, “I feel happy,” is a lie; if I do not believe, then saying, “I believe”, is a lie.

If I want to believe, saying, “I want to believe; please, help me,” is fine, but “I want to believe” is a different statement.

You know as an intellectual fact that the Creed is true, though, right?

It’s your feelings that have to get on board with it; not your intellect. So it’s your feelings that you have to convince of it. Your intellect already knows that it’s true, so it’s okay to say “I believe” even though your feelings aren’t there, just yet.

 

[jmcrae]

And who was given the authority to interpret Scripture?

Truth matters, very much, even if one is not certain. That is why we should always seek it. Truth is not relative. Even if I believe I can fly, if I jump out of an airplane without a parachute I will die. This will happen each and every time a person jumps without a chute, regardless of the degree of one’s certainty due to the objective truth of gravity.

Christ revealed divine Truth to his Church, a truth not dependent upon one’s ability or willingness to accept it. The Church, with the power and authority to bind and loose, then formed doctrines based upon this revealed Truth which were handed down through the centuries. The fact that someone comes along 1500 years later and disagrees based upon their own private notions does not change the truth that was delivered to the Church.

Peace.

Amen!

 

[Mystophilus]

You know as an intellectual fact that the Creed is true, though, right?

Well, no, I don’t, and I can’t: there is no way to prove any metaphysical claim. The Creed is an expression of belief, not an expression of knowledge.

It’s your feelings that have to get on board with it; not your intellect.

Sort of: I now recite the Creed because I choose to believe, because I believe as a result of wanting such a God to be. For quite a while, that was not a choice which I could make, since I was not emotionally ready or able to trust God that much. Before I reached the point at which the feeling was strong enough to make the belief possible, I could not honestly say it.