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GenosFutureWife
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[BIBLEDRB]Romans 12:19 [/BIBLEDRB]
“We are not separate from the wickedest among us.” - Mahatma Gandhi
“We are not separate from the wickedest among us.” - Mahatma Gandhi
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Starrsmother
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Beautifully put OraLabora. Two years ago I would probably have been one of those Catholics who were dismissed. I worry a little about the way the press twists Pope Francis’ words—but over all he’s right–that the Catholic church is not here for the saints–it’s here for the sinners. It’s not here to compliment the well on how healthy they are–it’s here to heal the sickest among us. Any other attitude–where we get self righteous that we somehow have it “right” and most other folks have it all “wrong”–puts us right in with the pharisees. Jesus could tolerate the sinners, but it seems to me that he had a real issue with the pharisees of his day. People journey in their faith at different speeds. For some folks–like St. Therese the Little Flower— once you put their feet on the correct path it’s full speed straight ahead! For others–like myself–it was more 2 steps ahead and 1 step back–and even now (2 years later) I think I’m only up to 3 steps ahead and still 1 back!. I’m trying really hard in my own life to remember what the pope said and apply it to myself now that I think I’m at least on the right path for the most part–though again–I hope in a year or 5 years I’ll be a lot further along than even today. Can you imagine how Jesus would love anyone who brought Him one soul who would otherwise have landed in hell? I so hope that 1 wonderful day I can look up at my loving and merciful God and say “See, Father! Look what I’m bringing you!”
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Magdalen2013
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For those of you who wish to attend a church with only 10 perfect members:
How are you going to be able to afford to keep the parish church doors open, with the tithing of only 10 people?
The parish I attend Mass at puts its budget in every edition of the parish bulletin. It’s well over a $100K a year – and they’re running in the red at the moment.
Are all your attendees going to be millionaires?
Whether or not you hate those who do not meet your standards and attend your churches you need them for the money and volunteer hours they contribute.
One question for you: Do you attend EVERY Mass your parish celebrates?
My parish offers a daily Mass on weekdays, Morning and Vigil Masses on Saturday, and four Masses on Sunday – just because someone brings in a baby for baptism to a Mass and you’ve never seen the couple at that hour, doesn’t mean they don’t regularly attend at another service.
I know several couples where the husband attends the early Mass, and the wife a later one, so that don’t have to bring the baby to the church, and each is able to pay attention to the service.
How are you going to be able to afford to keep the parish church doors open, with the tithing of only 10 people?
The parish I attend Mass at puts its budget in every edition of the parish bulletin. It’s well over a $100K a year – and they’re running in the red at the moment.
Are all your attendees going to be millionaires?
Whether or not you hate those who do not meet your standards and attend your churches you need them for the money and volunteer hours they contribute.
One question for you: Do you attend EVERY Mass your parish celebrates?
My parish offers a daily Mass on weekdays, Morning and Vigil Masses on Saturday, and four Masses on Sunday – just because someone brings in a baby for baptism to a Mass and you’ve never seen the couple at that hour, doesn’t mean they don’t regularly attend at another service.
I know several couples where the husband attends the early Mass, and the wife a later one, so that don’t have to bring the baby to the church, and each is able to pay attention to the service.
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KendraDZ1902
Guest
Mass times are something to think about. For just Sundays we have the vigil mass and 3 masses in the main church. In the historic church, we have TLM every Sunday, Polish Mass 2 Sundays every month, and a Spanish Mass every Sunday. I don’t go to Mass at the historic church, but I don’t always go to the same Mass on Sundays. If I go to confession, I will usually stay for the vigil mass. Some Sundays I am up early and will to to the 8am mass. Sometimes I go to a different mass time. I have a friend who is Hispanic and she will sometimes go to the Spanish Mass. I know of a Polish lady who will go to the Polish Mass when it is being held. If you don’t personally know her, you would think she was missing mass at least twice a month. That is if she went to the same mass on the Sundays she didn’t attend the Polish Mass.
People should mind their own business.
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OraLabora
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Cojuanco
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The mills of God grind slowly, but they grind exceedingly small.
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larsont7
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I must have missed the post where anyone suggested they wanted to attend a church like this. As I see so oftentimes on CAF (and other various fora), people tend to confuse people who sin, which is all of us, with people who promote sin.
For example, I would have no problem accepting a church with members who have fallen into the sin of homosexual behavior. However, if that person is unrepentant and tries to get the rest of the parish to accept his/her gay lifestyle, that’s where I have a problem.
Same goes for people who openly cohabitate, openly contracept, openly steal, etc. Yes, we all sin and offend Our Lord grieviously, but not all of us do so openly and without repentance.
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OraLabora
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Post number 46.
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larsont7
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I took that post to mean they would rather be in a parish with 10 members IF the only other alternative were to have a bunch of cafeteria Catholics who didn’t follow Church teaching. I also didn’t see where they said these 10 members had to be perfect (i.e.-sinless, unless something different is meant by perfect), only ones who accepted Catholic teaching and tried to follow it to the best of their ability.
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Aramis
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And his Holiness has followed through with a rather public excommunication…
charismanews.com/world/41141-pope-francis-excommunicates-pro-gay-marriage-priest-for-heresy
Fr. Greg Reynolds of Melbourne, Australia…
the priest who broke away in order to found a pro-gay and pro-female-clergy organization, who committed a potentially schismatic act when he continued to say the Mass after being suspended ad divinis…
…Has been excommunicated.
So, yes, there are consequences. Sometimes even public ones.
charismanews.com/world/41141-pope-francis-excommunicates-pro-gay-marriage-priest-for-heresy
Fr. Greg Reynolds of Melbourne, Australia…
the priest who broke away in order to found a pro-gay and pro-female-clergy organization, who committed a potentially schismatic act when he continued to say the Mass after being suspended ad divinis…
…Has been excommunicated.
So, yes, there are consequences. Sometimes even public ones.
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Starrsmother
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VivienneJ
Guest
If your church only offers one Sunday Mass, they may be missing Mass for no good reason; if your church offers more than one Sunday Mass they may be attending at a different time from you; also, the baby might be unwell on the Sundays they appear to have missed - caring for sick children is a valid reason to miss Sunday Mass; finally, they may be attending Mass at another Catholic Church, that is allowed. Unless you know this family personally, you have absolutely no way of knowing if they have missed Mass entirely on the Sundays you have not seen them in church.
Yes, the Church does teach the above; however, since the priest has allowed that baby to be presented for baptism, he must have no reason to believe that the baptism will not bear fruit; who are we, the sinners in the pews to think we know better?
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OraLabora
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Good luck running a parish of 10 members. You might have to sell off that historic old church, and move to a small store-front in the bad end of town to make ends meet (on the other hand that might not be so bad it if takes one out of one’s self and gets one onto the street doing some real good).
And how is the “parish police” going to decide who are making the right choices at the cafeteria? Because in practice at least, we are all “cafeteria Catholics”. That can’t be more clear than by just perusing this particular sub-forum. Will there be an admission test? How are you going to distinguish between “cafeteria Catholic” and “invincible ignorance”?
People who want such a parish can feel free to set one up if they want.
But please don’t call it “Catholic”.
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OraLabora
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Indeed. And if there’s only one Sunday Mass, it could be that one of the parents works Sundays, and the other one must care for the baby.
In my case I only attend Mass in my parish maybe 1 or 2 Sundays a year. But that doesn’t mean I never attend Mass, there’s a Benedictine monastery nearby and I happen to be an oblate there, so that’s where I attend Mass.
People really should mind their own business, and as you say not try to outguess the pastor from the pew!
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Rich_C
Guest
It’s called Hell.A poll shows that about 54% of American Catholics favor same-sex marriage. About 55% favor abortion in most or all circumstances. About 59% favor the “ordination” of women.
I once had an English teacher that told me that he is Catholic, but he believes that if a woman is raped, she should be allowed to get an abortion.
Shouldn’t there be a punishment? I think excommunication would be an appropriate punishment for heresy, don’t you think?
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Julianna
Guest
Right on. Your posts make perfect sense. I didn’t know there were attendance takers at mass. Are there also folks who count the number of children in a family? I guess my husbands family… (he is one of 9 children)…they would be allowed in…but families with 2 children…hmmmmmm… yep there’s the 10 faithful to the core parishoners.
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OraLabora
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You know where I live (Quebec) in the pre-Vatican II days, when our local Church was borderline Jansenist, that’s exactly what happened. During his annual parish visits, if the mother wasn’t nursing or expecting, and if there were too few children, there would be lots of explaining to do to the priest.
There was a huge backlash against the Church starting in the 60s, because of this. NOBODY here ever wants to go back to that.
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Moonbug
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Whether the parents attend Sunday Mass or not is a moot point. Baptism is the sacrament that removes the mark of original sin from a person’s soul. May I suggest you do a little research on this issue. It boggles my mind that any person in a religious order would not know this. The Church is so adamant about the unrestricted use of this sacrament that it teaches the administering of it to a dying person, even though he is not capable of accepting. This is called conditional baptism and is predicated of the assumption that if the person was a good person and was given full awareness of Jesus Christ and his gospel, he would willingly accept itt. In Vietnam many years ago during that war, I baptized a dying Vietcong soldier. I have always felt good about that and hope to meet him some day.
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catholictiger
Guest
there already is there is punishment due to sin. We need to preach in a charitable way the dangers of ignoring God’s law and the Church’s law.
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JanetF
Guest
Yeah, how do you know they don’t go to a different mass sometimes? Especially people with kids, will choose different masses depending on weekend activities, or just bring the kid in a sweaty soccer uniform.
I see different families as mass all the time, I don’t assume they skipped all the times I didn’t see them.I’m appalled at the idea of denying baptism to the CHILD. Now denying communion, that’s another thing, but that’s up to the priest if the people don’t do the right thing and stay in the pew. When I miss mass, I stay in the pew if I don’t have a chance to go to confession before my next communion. I trust all to do that, I’m not the communion police.
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