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montanaman
Guest
Despite your best efforts, you are not Supreme Commander of the Non Sequiter. Nor are you Captain Red Herring. I have met better.
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geno75
Guest
Im being honest, that was funny, really.
God Bless,
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joshua_b
Guest
Now, if we could, lets get back to the OP. Where in the Bible does it say that Scripture alone, and nothing else, is to dictate Doctrine ? We as Catholics hold that Doctrine is the Apostolic Tradition, which I have clearly defined. Here is where the argument starts. That is refuted by a claim that Apostolic Tradition is not in the Bible. (actually its all over the Bible, but thats another thread too) The question, at that point is, if someone is arguing that Apostolic Tradition isn’t supposed to be the basis of Doctrine but rather the Bible alone, then where in the Bible does it tell us to only adhere to the Bible, without regard to the context lent by the faith of the Apostles ?
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montanaman
Guest
Lol. Well, that’s good. Every now and then I like to break out of my dour Catholic Apologist mode. I like to think that despite online differences, I could still have a beer with some of my more vociferous opponents. Who knows, maybe one day we could get loaded and say a rosary together.Im being honest, that was funny, really.
God Bless,
J
joshua_b
Guest
Lol. Well, that’s good. Every now and then I like to break out of my dour Catholic Apologist mode. I like to think that despite online differences, I could still have a beer with some of my more vociferous opponents. Who knows, maybe one day we could get loaded and say a rosary together.
now THAT was funny!!! (no disrespect, but it DID make me laugh)
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montanaman
Guest
And speaking of which, I’m discovering it takes a “heck” of a lot more energy to be an aggressive defender of the Church than it is to be the smart-alecky “aside” guy. It’s probably more effective, too. Trying to return every volley is simply exhausting.
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joshua_b
Guest
Amen to that. I wish the Holy Spirit could let me off of the hook sometimes on that. Oh well, Jesus once rode into Jerusalem on the back of a jackass…sometimes he still does (and I don’t think the donkey was offered a choice; I know exactly how that poor donkey felt).
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geno75
Guest
Thats OK. You go ahead without me and say the Lords Prayer over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over like Jesus told the Apostles how the pagans called to their gods.Who knows, maybe one day we could get loaded and say a rosary together.
Yes I know it is his prayer, but I think its safe to say it will get our Fathers attention the 1st time it is said. After all, that is why the Lords Prayer was thought.
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montanaman
Guest
(Sigh. So much for the fun).Thats OK. You go ahead without me and say the Lords Prayer over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over like Jesus told the Apostles how the pagans called to their gods.
Yes I know it is his prayer, but I think its safe to say it will get our Fathers attention the 1st time it is said. After all, that is why the Lords Prayer was thought.
So, you’ve already taken care of it for your lifetime? You don’t have to say any more Our Fathers?
(Incidentally, the rosary isn’t intended to win over God through vain repetitions. It’s a meditation on the life of Christ. Someday, if you run out of things to do, take an unbiased look at it sometime. I myself say the scriptural rosary, in which you meditate on a passage of scripture between each prayer. Changed my life, man.)
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joshua_b
Guest
OK I’ve had enough of this drivel. Geno, are you even going to respond to post #42 (I’m fairly certain by now you realize that you can’t cite one Catholic Doctrine that has changed so I’ll let that one rest)
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geno75
Guest
montanaman said:
To be honest, I have no problem with the rosary. But I meditate Christ by witnessing him to those that will hear.
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joshua_b
Guest
That doesnt sound very “contemplative” to me :whacky:
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geno75
Guest
Give me several months to look over all the facts.
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montanaman
Guest
Okay, but lets not get squishy with our terms. “Meditation” isn’t the same thing as “evangelization.” It’s a fun little thing we moderns do–make everything mean everything else. For the love of all that is holy, man, good liguistic fences make good intellectual neighbors…or something.
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joshua_b
Guest
Absolutely. I will give you all the time you need to look over the facts. (I’ll even give you suggestions on source material if you would like) I encourage you to research this in detail, and further challenge you to go as far back to the original sources as you can find. If you’re willing to start another thread as a result on any of your research, please do not hesitate. I would be more than happy to participate.Give me several months to look over all the facts.
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MrS
Guest
Those closest to the Lord, the angelic choir of Seraphim, just keep repeating Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy,Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy,Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy,Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy,Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy,Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy,Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy,Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy,Thats OK. You go ahead without me and say the Lords Prayer over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over like Jesus told the Apostles how the pagans called to their gods.
Yes I know it is his prayer, but I think its safe to say it will get our Fathers attention the 1st time it is said. After all, that is why the Lords Prayer was thought.
Do you think they got the Father’s attention yet??
If I was protestant, I would be inclined to say…“Can’t do that… it’s in the bible… no vain repetition”
Or perhaps the true purpose of repetitive prayer is to adore and worship the object of all Catholic prayer…God - both directly, and by the veneration of His finished works … the Saints.
Thankfully, I am in the Catholic Church which teaches the difference between repetition, and vain repetition.
We can say the Our Father or the Hail Mary… both are in Scripture… and not vain repetition.
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joshua_b
Guest
This is Sola Scriptura at it finest. How are we to praise God always given the limitation of human vocabulary without repeating ourselves ? The prayers of the pagans were in vain because they were talking to beings that did not exist. To twist the message of this passage of Scripture to suit your own bias is precisely the reason (or at least one of the many I can see; I certainly do not claim the wisdom of God) we were given a visible Church, with governing authority and a teaching magisterium. But all of that is an aside. This thread is so far off topic I am almost starting to lose interest. Please read the original post and then post 42, (which was my VAIN attempt to get this thread back on topic), and if you are so inclined, please respond to them.
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Douay-Rheims
Guest
Of course they will. As St. Peter said, the unlearned and unstable will twist … Scriptures … to their own destruction.
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geno75
Guest
Or is it certain catholics showing the world how they are more “holy” than the other believers in Christ.
**Those closest to the Lord, the angelic choir of Seraphim, just keep repeating Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy,Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy,Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy,Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy,Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy,Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy,Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy,Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy, Holy,
Do you think they got the Father’s attention yet??**
So were you called out to be a Seraphim? Isnt that what God created them for?
Remember, Jesus said “…for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.” Matt6:8
So if you want to say it over and over, and it works for you, fine.
To be honest, I have no problem with the rosary. But I meditate Christ by witnessing him to those that will hear.
Im really sorry about this. This was a poor attempt at philosophy, you know, trying to fit in here.
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joshua_b
Guest
I dont think (and surely you could agree) that witness is the same thing as contemplation. Thank you for stating that you don’t have a problem with the Rosary; that tells me that we have a mutual respect for one another. The point is, however, that witnessing is an act, its something we do. Contemplation is not something we “do” but something we allow to happen. The Rosary is one of the most beautiful prayers I know of, because in its repetition, and in its many layers of functionality, it draws us out of our linear mode of thinking and existence, and allows us to actually contemplate and allow God to speak to us a little more on “His terms” as opposed to our own human methods of communication. When we witness (or evangelize) we communicate God’s message to others, when we contemplate, we allow God to communicate His message to us in a profoundly personal way.
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